How to Answer the Dumb Things Climate Deniers Say

Originally posted by john124
reply to post by Dark Ghost

 

Not directly, but indirectly. Just look at the graphs.

Which tell us the Earth is warming.... and the most likely explanation is CO2.

Just because it was locally warmer in the past doesn't mean we can make the planet as warm as we like!

Asteroid impacts were common in the past, and even though some life survived then, we wouldn't want it to happen again.

Why is CO2 the most likely explanation?

Are there no other influences on the Earth's climate and temperature?

Mars Melt Hints at Solar, Not Human, Cause for Warming, Scientist Says

Simultaneous warming on Earth and Mars suggests that our planet's recent climate changes have a natural—and not a human-induced—cause, according to one scientist's controversial theory.

People still believe in Global Warming?

Even though scientists manipulated, distorted, and deleted information to trick people into believing in it in the first place?

One of the scientists that tried to deceive us admitted there has been no Global Warming since 1995.

I can't believe Global Warming is still taken seriously.

reply to post by Ozzy Mandias

Originally posted by Ozzy Mandias
What about other greenhouse gasses such as water vapor?

There are various compounds in the atmosphere, oceans and earth which trap, and reflect radiation. When we receive energy from the sun the activity on earth causes us to warm up. But we don't continue warming forever. We reach an equilibrium where various compounds are excited enough to release radiation which escapes to space. Water vapor is an important greenhouse gas. But we are neither creating or loosing new water on the earth to change the equilibrium.
Water vapor is a natural greenhouse gas, if we were to create more water by burning hidden hydrogen reserves or something, then you would expect a change in climate. The OT, does not deny that water vapor is an important greenhouse gas, however changes in the atmosphere, earth and oceans, can change our equilibrium of energy absorbed and lost on the planet. The OT argues that the change in CO2 levels is the primary force attributing to our average increase of global temp.

Originally posted by Ozzy Mandias
What about the fact that volcanoes create huge amounts of CO2 far beyond the capacity of humans?

Volcanoes do emit huge amounts of CO2, but its minuscule by comparison to mankind. off hand the figures are something like 200 million tons emitted by volcanoes each year, mankind emits 27 billion.

Originally posted by Ozzy Mandias
What about the fact that there was a mini warming period in the middle ages with high amounts of CO2?

OP addressed this. The warming period was localized. Not global. Its a big world, and we see cold and hot and variations all around, that weather for you. The important measurement is the global average.

Originally posted by Ozzy Mandias
What about the increased solar activity? the sun is the wellspring for nearly all activity on our planet, doesnt it make sense that it would be the main source of heating and cooling on our planet?

Of course. The main source of our heating is from the sun. If the sun irradiates more you'd expect the earth to get hotter. If we are reflecting less than is being emitted by the sun, then that means our planet is heating internally. NASA has done a few measurements testing incoming and outgoing radiation, just a quick google Earths Albedo. Also any PROPER climate science, usually caters for the obvious and attempts to eliminate it as a confounding force to determine the effect of the force they are measuring. This also applies to seasons, orbital variation etc etc.

Originally posted by Ozzy Mandias
Everyone is out for money, and no one cares about our home. Just my 2 cents.

ya, thats the problem sometimes with capitalism. there are of course institutions and people who are just out for the money. Both deniers and alarmists.

Originally posted by jrmcleod
Ok, fast and simple answer to all you problems of saving this world from dangerous gases...

All the cattle in the planet create more harmful gases than all of mans creations put together, and incase you didnt know, methane has a worse effect for heat retention than CO2 by 4 TIMES.

KILL ALL THE COWS....

There are two things that puzzled me about this whole thing and this statement lends validity to my thoughts. Lets talk about the millions of animals that once covered this planet for millions of years. They must have produced a billions of tons of carbon. Where did that go?

Then, what about the millions of acres of forest that have been lost in the last 50 years. My limited kindergarden education tells me that trees eat CO2 and crap O2. Where did that go?

So in my eyes, I can say that if there is indeed a CO2 problem, it would seem more likely that the issue has to do with the earths air cleaners being used toothpicks. Not americas cars and factories, which overall are probably outputting less CO2 than the tens of millions or so Bison that used to roam the plains.

please correct me if my idealogy is flawed

DUMB??????????????


UNTIL TODAY THERE IS NO CONSENSUS IN THE SCIENTIFIC COMMUNITY, HOW CAN U SAY SOMEBODY IS DUMB FOR NOT WANTING TO BELIEVE AS AN ACT OF FAITH IN GLOBAL WARMING

reply to post by Carseller4

Originally posted by Carseller4
People still believe in Global Warming?

Even though scientists manipulated, distorted, and deleted information to trick people into believing in it in the first place?

One of the scientists that tried to deceive us admitted there has been no Global Warming since 1995.

I can't believe Global Warming is still taken seriously.

How can the information have been deleted if we all read it?

I'm not condoning hiding or misrepresentation of data or any of that, but your statements are exaggerated and arguable.

If you read the leaks, you would have noticed they weren't trying to trick people into believing global warming, they were trying to subvert FOI requests which they evidently felt were excessive, and deliberately submitted only to disrupt their research.

And that deceiving scientist must be wrong because 2009 was the 2nd hottest year on record (after 1934)... And that's from instrumental data.

And even IF they were the evil corrupt stooges which they are touted as, does that invalidate the whole dendroclimatology field? Which is just one of the many methods used to measure historical temperature... Does that invalidate all methods ever used to measure historical temperatures? Does that invalidate climatology?

Even if they did publish, other scientists can recreate the experiments and test it. And If it were false, it would have proven a dent in dendroclimatology. But not in science, not in climatology, perhaps a big dent for Hadley either way though.

Celestial driver of Phanerozoic climate?

The Milky Way Galaxy's Spiral Arms and Ice-Age Epochs and the Cosmic Ray Connection

The two above suggest the warming is do to influence from outside our solar system.

@ Ferris Bueller II

Simultaneous warming on Earth and Mars suggests that our planet's recent climate changes have a natural—and not a human-induced—cause, according to one scientist's controversial theory.

This is not just happening on Earth and Mars you know.

Sun Blamed for Warming of Earth and Other Worlds

Climate Catastrophes In The Solar System



There is much more on topic ! Like this !

From Health risks of shipping pollution have been 'underestimated'

Confidential data from maritime industry insiders based on engine size and the quality of fuel typically used by ships and cars shows that just 15 of the world's biggest ships may now emit as much pollution as all the world's 760m cars. Low-grade ship bunker fuel (or fuel oil) has up to 2,000 times the sulphur content of diesel fuel used in US and European automobiles.

Travelling by Container Ships, another carbon footprinting investigation

Still there is more on topic !

Originally posted by countercounterculture
And that deceiving scientist must be wrong because 2009 was the 2nd hottest year on record (after 1934)... And that's from instrumental data.

Once again...manipulation. You know how you manipulate a thermometer? You place them in a parking lot, you place them near an airport, whatever it takes to get the desired effects.

2009, The 2nd hottest year on record? The manipulation, distortion and deletion must have been working overtime for these results.

Didn't I read somewhere that all the planets in our solar system are warming? As for the manmade CO2 causing all the problems...well that's just nuts! CO2 is produced in massive amounts by the planet itself and plants, trees, etc love to eat it and lets not forget that something like 30K scientists were willing to bet their careers that Global Warming was not manmade.

Global Warming is a classic example of TPTB controlling and manipulating us while trying to rob us of even more of our hard earned cash.

It sadden me that so many people believed this lie.

Rev

I just find it hilarious that after this whole global warming thing started, it starts snowing like CRAZY. I live in the midwest and it has been snowing almost once a week.


But I do not believe mankind has the power to control the processes of the Earth. Nature is above us and we can not control it.


Thats just me.

Oh, and the fact that those top scientists who claimed to figure out global warming sent emails to each other talking about it not being man-made---yeah that kinda proves it for me.

Oh, and I believe that there IS Global Warming, but it's simply a fluctuation in our patterns of weather - nothing permanent.

Cimate change is real! Climategate was nothing but a huge misinformation campaign by big business.



Having said that, carbon trad is a total scam, and doesn't help to save the planet.

[edit on 27-2-2010 by MrXYZ]

@ revmoofoo.
Yes you did two post above yours. :shk:



@ Carseller4

Once again...manipulation. You know how you manipulate a thermometer? You place them in a parking lot, you place them near an airport, whatever it takes to get the desired effects.

2009, The 2nd hottest year on record? The manipulation, distortion and deletion must have been working overtime for these results.

You are right


On Topic !

Ok lets asume we are manipulated. What is our next move ?
Any ideas ?

I suggest we first get our priorities straight.
We have a problem. Without it being solved, nothing we will do to save the world will have a lasting effect if it has effect in the first place.

Please !? Any suggestions ?

Originally posted by MrXYZ
Cimate change is real! Climategate was nothing but a huge misinformation campaign by big business.

Having said that, carbon trad is a total scam, and doesn't help to save the planet.

So, and...? Will we sit in indifference watching the world getting screwed ?

Or... Will we stand ?

The problem that I see is people assuming the entire global warming thing is a massive scam, but from what I can see, global warming is a combination of CO2 and solar system warming which has been politicized for profit. People see that it's being manipulated and assume the entire theory is factually wrong.

[edit on 27-2-2010 by hippomchippo]

reply to post by December_Rain


I can only assume you missed the snowstorm in Copenhagen along with the inability to achieve anything at all.

I believe you also missed the several blizzards and snowstorms that have covered the U.S. this winter.

I guess our planet is now like freon in an air conditioner, the more you heat it up, the colder it gets.

Sorry, cleaner Earth with more rain forest I'll buy, MMGW and too much CO2 I don't.

Originally posted by hippomchippo
The problem that I see is people assuming the entire global warming thing is a massive scam, but from what I can see, global warming is a combination of CO2 and solar system warming which has been politicized for profit. People see that it's being manipulated and assume the entire theory is factually wrong.

[edit on 27-2-2010 by hippomchippo]

I don't think it is made up. I do think Co2 very little to do with it.
There is evidence backing up the claim.

The problem. It's source is still the same in my opinion.

Originally posted by December_Rain
The short winters, prolonged summers

Man, I guess you haven't spent a summer in the UK then, you seriously wouldn't know the difference between the summer and the winter lol!

I beleive in two things more than I beleive in Global Warming/Climate Change:

1) The ability of the planet to heal itself

2) The ability of TPTB to lie, deceive, rob, kill, tax, steal and enslave us

These my freinds are a more pressing concern than some cause that AL Gore is championing, I can tell you that with my hand on my heart.

No disrespect to the OP, he/she believes in what he/she believes in! Fair play!

KF

Kinda shot your argument in the foot with this one..

The Skeptics: CO2 can't possibly be to blame for any so-called climate change as emissions only stay in our atmosphere for up to 10 years. Our oceans and terrestrial carbon sinks absorb this CO2 anyway. In fact, the oceans are so big that they could absorb over 50 times more CO2 than humans contribute now. As such, we can't possibly be to blame for any change in global temperatures today.

Answer: Actually the ocean's ability to store CO2 is not very long. Only 50% of CO2 is absorbed by areas of the ocean that are not very deep. In these areas, CO2 is released back into the atmosphere. Recent studies have shown that only 30% of CO2 is stored in the deep ocean. The rest, some 20%, stays in the atmosphere for thousands of years

Emphasis added.

This is not a good answer, if the answer above it stated that it only remains for 10 years, which I don't know if that's true or not, and then your answer says thousands of years???

~Keeper

We have had more severe snow this winter than i can recall, infact, i believe it is the worst winter in Scotland for 60 years...there is 300cm of snow in our mountains, bearing in mind the highest is only 4400ft. Global warming may exist, i dont deny the possibility but what i completely deny is saying that it is created soley by CO2. The fact that there is money to be made from this just makes me even more skeptical.

At the end of the day, the huge iceberg near Oz will melt and the weather in the northern hemisphere, i.e. Europe and the US will change that will pull the mean global temp down.

Originally posted by countercounterculture
Water vapor is a natural greenhouse gas, if we were to create more water by burning hidden hydrogen reserves or something, then you would expect a change in climate. The OT, does not deny that water vapor is an important greenhouse gas, however changes in the atmosphere, earth and oceans, can change our equilibrium of energy absorbed and lost on the planet. The OT argues that the change in CO2 levels is the primary force attributing to our average increase of global temp.

Do you realize that water is a product of combustion. When you burn a hydro-carbon the result is CO2 and H2O released in the atmosphere.