Sen. Bunning blocks unemployment benefits extension

reply to post by BlackOps719


Awesome post.

When did it become a horrible thing to help out our fellow US citizens who have been nothing but a victim to fraud and other atrocities?

This isn't what America is about. It's about helping each other. It's about what we believe in. We work hard. We want to provide for our families.

Quite frankly, that's not asking for a whole lot. We didn't ask for these wars, we didn't ask for high energy prices nor did we ask for explosive debt...

What people do expect is getting help for paying taxes every year.

Yet so many of you treat them like trash. it's wrong.

you should now you are wrong.....and if you don't...then maybe you need to see a shrink.

Look in the mirror and ask yourself if you would do whatever you had to do to feed your family....

Principles won't matter.

reply to post by David9176

When did it become a horrible thing to help out our fellow US citizens who have been nothing but a victim to fraud and other atrocities?

If you mean .... loosing your job (oh no...) I would hardly consider it a national crisis.. we have had recessions before, long recessions, and unemployment has NEVER been dragged out this long (78 weeks plus more extensions coming) .. what does it serve? Capitalist economic principles dictate that when a population becomes heavily unemployed, they actually create new markets and re-emerge..

But god forbid we get off our fat asses and DO SOMETHING .. no .. lets just whine and complain that Uncle Sam didn't give us our allowance money this week.

reply to post by Rockpuck


But this is not a oligarchy in this country Rock, this is a republic. Don't let our government fool you, we still live in a Republic not a corporate owned state.

I don't think the majority of these people are just sitting on their asses and doing nothing. Like I said in this thread before, an experiment might be in order. Go out, look for a job, see how well you do. Some of these people, especially in Michigan have been looking for work for a long time now, it's not their fault. There aren't any jobs here.

I have been lucky that I have kept my job throughout this recession. I would hate to be out there trying to find work. It's a hard job market to be in. When you put in your application, you are competing with a lot of people, for jobs that frankly aren't that desirable.

All of this has come and gone before, so keep your head up, its bad and it will get worse. All of the problems of today are the problems of the past, Some of us learned little from history and some learned nothing, you have thrown your pearls before those who with the right words and appearence you thought were to be trusted, and they were swine. And anyone who learned a lot from history, well why would they want the burden. Leading is hard work, if it werent so why would anyone want it. The harder a thing is to do the less anyone wants to do it.


We all live on the deeds of the past. He who thinks he has acomplished anything by himself is a fool.

reply to post by Rockpuck


why not??
there's a heck of alot of whining and complaining when the idea is brought up that our gov't should put a few limits on those nice big bonuses that our...or..;.maybe it's my kid's taxmoney is paying!! there's a heck of alot of whining when the idea is brought up that maybe the more wealthy should help a little more with higher taxes!! try closing down a school, see how much whining you hear!! or cutting student aide, or cutting some of the perks that are in place that are supposedly put in place to draw the jobs into a community!!!
everyone's whining!!! no one wants to take the hit, when in fact everyone should be taking the hit!! I've been broke and penniless before, guess what....even if you had some great ideas.....you aren't going no where with them without the $$$ to carry you!
what's more important?
the masses get fed, sheltered, ect. or that we have stupid signs all around use telling us how our gov't is wasting our money? seems to me that one might prevent riots, while the other might cause a few!

Originally posted by Grumble
The bottom line is, I do not have the obligation to feed you. That is your responsibility. I should ask you the question, "What gives you the right to demand my earnings at the point of a gun because you have failed to provide for yourself?"

If you are a business owner and are still above water, first let me applaud you. I hope your good fortune keeps up.
As for the quote I have above, who exactly is at your door with a gun demanding your earnings? No one is, that's who. This country is free enough should you not wish to play the already established rules you have the right to leave. No one said "You must open a business here and then give the government XX% of your income". I bet you were fine with the rules until the economy went to hell in a bucket. Only now, when people are in need, do you say "Damn the women and children, I EARNED this money".
To that I say, I ask this. Did you use any of the following to build your business: roads, telephones, internet, electricity, water, small business loans? Because if you did, you were relying on the government as well since it was responsible for building the roads, the electrical grid (darn that New Deal, liberals with their electrification!) the expansion of public water works, access to the internet for non military entities, low interest on small business loans. So I would say, if you really don't want to help with the system you should liquidate your business and send the money to the government to show how you will refuse the yoke of government help. After all they created the infrastructure that allows business to grow.

Obs out

I have to agree with this guy. For many reasons. One being, there is no money! My husband has his own business and has held in there this long. We have given all we can give. You have no idea how many jobs he has done and still can not get paid for. He has held on to his employees as long as he can, but unfortunatly he has had to let them go.

I get so sick of people whining. "I want my unemployment check."

Here is a news flash, those men and women who gave you your paycheck, the same men and women who have to pay extra so you can have that unemployment check, the same people who are going to be taxed to death for all that stuff you think you are entitled to.....DONT get to have unemployment benifits. AT ALL. YOU try working your ass off for a month for FREE. There are no jobs to run to. The hope that someone will pay their bill is the only thing small business owners have to hold on to. So while you sit on your ass and claim your unemployment benifits and whine about how you should have...your are owed. Those people who worked their asses off so you could get your money are continuing to work their asses off so they can buy that milk and bread so THEIR women and children can have something to eat.

I applaud this man.

Secondly, most people do not/will not do anything to change a situation until it directly affects them. Everyone knows that the bail out money was a bitter and unfair deal. What do you think will happen when the masses are no longer allowed to be pacified with unemployment benifits while those big banks get their free money. THAT is the ONLY way things will be made right, and boy will they be made right in a hurry.

I also want to point this out....

The House of Representatives passed the extension by voice vote, and the Senate was expected to go along. Then along came Bunning, a fiscal conservative, who objected because Congress didn't pay for the $10 billion bill.

It was a one month long extention they were voting on. Congress never bothered to find a way to pay for this! If you only have so much money then you have to make decisions on what to do with that money. If they would rather find money for stimulous packages and bail outs than find money for unemployment benifits I hardly see how this not going through is the fault of the one Senator who had the good sense to point it out, and draw a line.

blogs.wsj.com...] Wall Street Journal

Bunning blocked Senate action on the bill last week, saying the bill should be paid for. He called for using unallocated, leftover funds from the 2008 stimulus package, an approach opposed by Democrats.

I wonder what they would rather do with that left over stimulus money?

also..

“All Sen. Bunning was saying, quite correctly, is it ought to be paid for,” Kyl said. “Congress just passed the so-called pay-go legislation which is supposed to require that we find offsets or other savings if we’re going to spend money. So the first thing we do? We exempt this bill from it.”

[edit on 28-2-2010 by mrsdudara]

Originally posted by mrsdudara
I have to agree with this guy. For many reasons. One being, there is no money! My husband has his own business and has held in there this long. We have given all we can give. You have no idea how many jobs he has done and still can not get paid for. He has held on to his employees as long as he can, but unfortunatly he has had to let them go.

I get so sick of people whining. "I want my unemployment check."

Here is a news flash, those men and women who gave you your paycheck, the same men and women who have to pay extra so you can have that unemployment check, the same people who are going to be taxed to death for all that stuff you think you are entitled to.....DONT get to have unemployment benifits. AT ALL. YOU try working your ass off for a month for FREE. There are no jobs to run to. The hope that someone will pay their bill is the only thing small business owners have to hold on to. So while you sit on your ass and claim your unemployment benifits and whine about how you should have...your are owed. Those people who worked their asses off so you could get your money are continuing to work their asses off so they can buy that milk and bread so THEIR women and children can have something to eat.

I applaud this man.

Secondly, most people do not/will not do anything to change a situation until it directly affects them. Everyone knows that the bail out money was a bitter and unfair deal. What do you think will happen when the masses are no longer allowed to be pacified with unemployment benifits while those big banks get their free money. THAT is the ONLY way things will be made right, and boy will they be made right in a hurry.

I can feel the unfairness of it all you are feeling now. Caught in the middle between the Corporations getting the cream of society’s funds for bailout, and the unemployed who cannot find a job today and appealing for help from society’s members.

It seems there is no one helping you, the small medium enterprises and the working middle class who still have to work their butts off.

But this is not the time to be selfish. We as society’s members must share, especially now in this crisis. While you take care of your children, I am sure you will not conscionably watch those hardworking Americans who got sacked not of their doing and especially see their kids starve too.

They are not whining as you so odiously and arrogantly presumed. It is not a laughing matter to watch your hard work and dedication going up in smoke, your security gone, and your pride reduced to charity for social handouts, not for themselves, but for their families.

They are only voicing out their genuine concerns and fears, in the hope the privileged working class may understand if this class has no wish to share or think sharing is an imposition and a crime to your struggling fellow member.

As for your situation, you too are affected and need financing help too, from the govt whom are the representatives of the People and holders of the Treasury funds, as well as modernizing and search for new technologies to creatively sell your business to others and at the same time not to make the mistake of ‘economic sense’ - hiring cheap illegals again, and then have to watch the horror ‘social sense’ of your fellow Americans whom are being replaced and having no money to buy your products.

May your reconsider your awefully pugnacious applause for that senator whom had brought the honor of the senate and America into disrepute.

Originally posted by SeekerofTruth101

But this is not the time to be selfish.....While you take care of your children,

I have nothing to be selfish with. We have given everything everything to the employees before we had to let them go. Take care of my children with what? We are not entitled to unemployment benifits. We are still working for the chance to make a few bucks to pay for groceries next week.

I am sure you will not conscionably watch those hardworking Americans who got sacked not of their doing and especially see their kids starve too.

I dont want to watch that at all. I think you should stop being selfish and sell your house and give all your money so they wont have to.

They are not whining as you so odiously and arrogantly presumed.

Nothing is presumed. I am going off what I read.

As for your situation, you too are affected and need financing help too, from the govt

How are they going to give financial help when they are broke???? They do not have the $$ as is clearly stated above. That is why this Senator objected. He did not do this to be mean. THERE IS NO MONEY!!!!

as well as modernizing and search for new technologies to creatively sell your business to others and at the same time not to make the mistake of ‘economic sense’

You really dont have a clue, do you? Sell the business? To who? Give it up and go get a job? Where? He is a civil engineer. Residential jobs went away long before the crash. The comercial real estate side is about to crash. Local government jobs were the only jobs left to be had. They are now broke, and this month most have decided to hault any and all development and upgrades for a year.

But this is not the time to be selfish.

You are absolutly right. You need to sell everything and give us your money.

May your reconsider your awefully pugnacious applause for that senator whom had brought the honor of the senate and America into disrepute.

I will always applaud any person who has the guts to stand up and do what is right. He clearly stated that he would be for this if they could find a way to pay for it. There is money, but the democrats do not with to let it go to pay for this bill. So, who is it that is truely being selfish here?

reply to post by mrsdudara


I can understand your anger and frustrations. I will just touch on the critical points in your rebuttal.

Firstly, selling your biz in my context meant selling your products or services, not your shop lot stock and barrel, as you did not reveal what you are dealing in.

Re-read my post in my context and may you see it with a different comprehension.

Secondly, there is no such thing as NO money by the govt, more so when trillions are being planned for less worthy causes. Nothing can more important in a country than its citizens.

It is the job of the Senator to find money and solutions, NOT stubbornly make a stand to do nothing, accept no other views, and insult hardworking americans caught in trap not of their making.

If he is incapable representative of the people, then he should just simply resign and let someone else better do the job.

However, rest assured, jobs are and will be created by the administration, only that it takes time. In the meanwhile, hardworking americans who had lost their jobs must not starve, or their families. The social welfare cheque is not much and would not be of frivolity anyway. They may still go hungry, but at least their kids won't starve.

This is a crisis, not the best of times, don't forget that. Either we hang together as one or we will surely be hung one by one.

The fat cat bankers, big Corporations and hedge fund operators will be made to pay, and pay dearly for bringing this calamity upon a great nation and to the world, if they still don't change their ways today, not you and your kind, of the small medium enterprises, for you and your kind are suffering along with the rest of the nation.




[edit on 28-2-2010 by SeekerofTruth101]

reply to post by SeekerofTruth101


We agree, it is their job to find the money to pay for this. He found the money. It is the others who did not want to use the money to pay for the American citizens who are in need.

As for my husbands business - now that I understand your point - he is continuing to work hard to continue on. He is one of the last men standing at this point. He has found a few jobs to work on, but one of the most difficult things at this point is collecting money. The businesses whom he serviced are not able to pay their bills. It is a long hard domino effect. A lot of people do not fully understand the how's and why's of the real estate market crash. Unless you are in the business, it is unlikely that you can really wrap your mind around the implications of it all.

I understand that the government wants to create jobs.

This situation is not one that can be fixed. The damage has been done. We can only recover.

Our economy is still falling. Throwing more weight on it is not going to help the siuation.

If this were to pass they would be handing out IOU's. They need to be more mindfull of where our money goes. The left over stimulus money that is comming out of our pocket should go to paying for our own citizens who are in need. Do you disagree?

Originally posted by jam321
Maybe I missed it and somebody already mentioned it.


Isn't there 100 Senators? How could only one of them be able to stop this?

Why didn't they just call for a regular vote instead of a voice vote?

Something just doesn't seem right about this.

It's very simple.

Bunning is giving political cover to the Republican Senators with likeminded views who know it's political suicide to block benefits (but privately agree with Bunning).

Why political cover? It is an election year and blocking benefits is a highly unpopular position.

Why Bunning? Bunning poised to retire

Bunning is a fall guy, he is merely playing a role doled out to him in a Republican leadership strategy meeting.

You are seeing the art of political deflection at work..

Move along, nothing to see here.

[edit on 2/28/2010 by clay2 baraka]

I understand the anger at this man, but where exactly does it say in the constitution that the federal government should be providing unemployment checks? Thats something that should be left to the states. Again not defending this SOB but the idea that the federal government should be involved in our day to day lives is what got us into this entire mess in the first place. Also their is no greater motivation tool for the unemployed to get off their collective butts and look for a job than a source of government income drying up. I know in my area (Boston) their are plenty of jobs, its just that people deem them not good enough for them!

Originally posted by LibertarianConstitutional
government... in our day to day lives is what got us into this entire mess in the first place.

Certainly wasn't the elites in the financial sector who started issuing and insuring their own loans based upon funds they did not have. Most definitely it is not the fact that the private
sector outsources our production and jobs with impunity. If only the government would let them do as they wish...

reply to post by Janky Red


The government involvement in everything you mention did not have anything to do with it either?

How about the gov spending more than they have.

How about them stealing from the SS and other funds?

It is time to eliminate 95% of the Fed gov before they decide some other devious ideas, like taking over the world. Oh, that is already in motion.

I don't get it End... of course the government had much to do, I really hope you can put that other foot down and see that this struggle is both. A pack of rich and ruthless F$#%#$% robbed us blind and with all respect, I feel many folks of the conservative persuasion REALLY down play this fact.

It gets frustrating to me, because I KNOW you get it, but knowing does not seem to transfer to updating the ideas depot. The government creates fake money and big business turns the fake money into real, somehow.

We the people earn tangible cash and transfer our cash wealth to folks who deal in conceptual cash, computer BS. Unfortunately this system is also the basis of our prosperity which might be your hang. In any case you cannot discover true enlightenment if you are busy working to preserve ideas and theory, actively or unintentionally.


As I see it, all of capitalism is locked into the system it has also helped create... The expediency of technology, fast cash, loans, credit, balance transfers; this system has evolved into a monster like it or not. Sad thing is that the market has created these things out of demand, which DOES NOT MEAN these updates benefit the base ideas of capitalism in itself, born of capitalism, sent to kill its own mother.

Its a tremendous pickle because the socialist extreme is also greatly flawed, we have been told it is one or the other, yet our government and industry based upon capitalism does not seem to recognize that its is eating itself.

Just think, a free market with computers? Seems to be a great way to create a whole lot of fake money and problems- in any case it is the new reality. Take your hands off and people will create money that may or may not have a basis in the physical world, we don't know, we don't care, all I know is I can by an IPAD with it...

Meanwhile I have to accept what ever THEY can create and pass off as legitimate? I am free to accept, but not free to challenge these new illegitimate additions to wealth creation? I did not sign up for big fake money, but the boys on wallstreet have thought it up, of course I have to accept it because it was imagined, right?

we need new ideas to go along with these historically young technological realities and notions.

.... anyhow...


I just can't believe that the anger has bypassed the structure that actually worked the system, pushed the buttons and developed the strategy. I mean sure enough you came in here and made a special visit (which I appreciate) to shut down this avenue of examination by redirecting me back to the governments culpability. Yet this is already ESTABLISHED firmly, we all know they are consistently screwing things up... what gets buried and buried and redirected is the other dance partner... I know it might be hard to be anti government and also be critical of the system's shinning star's (individuals and structure). But if you and others chose to ignore a very key factor we are never going to get it together, I say frell that with all your might End, expand your dragnet of discontent honestly and whole heartily.

Our business leaders sat around purposely manipulating the capitalistic system that we all helped build. If we were talking regular men, we would be talking LONG prison sentences for theft, fraud, usury, bribery, insider information, racketeering...
They were over leveraging 30 to 1 in some cases, loaning $30 for every $1 in reserve.

Why is this vital factor so under played?

Truth is the individuals responsible are among the worlds most successful producers, fortunate for them; we the sheeple think it is robbery to steal
$100, but to steal hundreds of billions is just business. These pecker heads shielded by fictitious business names are now completely off the hook.

We all screwed up when we did not demand retribution, all of us were used. It was not a coincidence or magic that the elites used our template to bone us thoroughly, they know we do not have the guts to reevaluate our traditions, too proud... PLUS the government will take the wrap!


My point is, I believe TPTB is not a government per say, the government is a front where the control is effected thru the offices and positions in an OFFICIAL WAY.


Notice politicians come and go, but the same things keep happening? One could say there are very few officials left over from the 60's; so why the hell do we keep getting the same results from a presumably new set of people?




[edit on 28-2-2010 by Janky Red]

[edit on 28-2-2010 by Janky Red]

reply to post by Janky Red


Damn, could not have said it better myself.

I just do not want everyone to fall for the Saul Alinsky play of create problem to institute solution.

Big government begets big business.

What came first, the chicken or the egg?

In the past, the fed gov was mandated to regulate intrastate trade by mandating it was fair between the states. THAT IS IT.

Now, we have the fed gov instituting treaties with nations to create multi-national corporations with no actual base of operations. All they need to do is put their headquarters in a country with the most help overall and base their production in the lowest wage country then sell in the highest market.

Now, the US, use to be the highest market but our wages are GONE. The US and ANY other country cannot survive in this environment. I still feel non regulation is the way to go with the stipulation that monopolies and such must be prevented in all shapes and forms. I also am more for closed markets to the sovereign countries themselves. What happens in a global market when the SHTF? Everything goes in the dumps.

This move towards globalization is the downfall of everyone except the elite and government.

We are headed for the USSR in the 70's and 80's on a global scale.

Like I have said again and again, more local non centralized markets and supply HAS to be the way to go. Look at the food production problem alone. Farmers are paid NOT to produce to keep the World Prices high. Who is that helping.

Huge governments very existence is a perfect example of overburdened production models analogous to a company with more management than workers.

I just see what their next step is, to blame free markets (which we never have had) and to implement a totalitarian corporatist model of total control of all production. Slow but sure, everything I have just said has been implemented over the last 40 years.

Correlation? Hell yes! Causation? What else has been synonymous with the downfall of the economy?

Bigger Government=Less Freedom of everything including the economy.

Bigger Government and Bigger Corps interconnected equals the enslavement of mankind in my view.

They still have a chance to pull back from their ways. Time is short, people will do something. This IS THE INFORMATION AGE. We know WHO is in control and causing this.

The elites have miscalculated one thing, we know now what their plans are and we will not let them get away with it.

The time is nighe, it is just not yet, the endisnighe!

Originally posted by endisnighe
I just see what their next step is, to blame free markets (which we never have had) and to implement a totalitarian corporatist model of total control of all production. Slow but sure, everything I have just said has been implemented over the last 40 years.

this is my hang... who can distinguish between legitimate business and business that only
fuels this model? And if is not politically correct to frown upon "capitalist" making capital
how can we the people create a front of solidarity? You state that this is not a free market,
yet these technological follies and models where baked in a capitalist oven.

It is all a problem of distinction for me-

With no regulation, what is to stop the engines of prosperity from creating virtual money in an upfront way?

would you welcome government intervention
or
be all for this new product

We are already three steps in that direction... But then again such an idea is innovative and very much in line with capitalist doctrine; step aside and let the able create.

So in this case what allegiance or remedy would you recommend?

I ask because in the current environment I can't tell if you;

welcome ANYTHING that can be created by business...

or

do you believe that all business is not equal in merit or consideration

, if the second is true how do you effect/change/stop such a thing, realistically.

Do you say "hell ya, market fixes come to the rescue!"

or

"S$%! these $#@$# are going to perpetrate their usual BS shell game
with their fake ass virtual money?"

Which leads to;

Do nothing, let them make virtual money, its a free country, market innovation

or

Use the apparatus entrusted to the "people" (government), to halt such a dangerous practice such as wealth being a product of binary code...

Or in translation - actively do nothing and accept the idea or defy the idea thru due
process/control/intervention/politicians/etc...

Sometimes I think we are very close, but in this little niche I could swear that we are
worlds apart. How can a society ensure it is not plundered if it lets anyone, INCLUDING nationless billionaires, do whatever the $#@$ they want, how they want, when they want?

Please be specific and help me understand how we can progress in a way that yields good results, while being hands off, in this modern, not free market world?

and does applying free market ideas in this current paradigm make for more freedom
or more oppression?

Sorry for all the ?'s I ask a million ways cause I really want to make sure I am presenting the core of my confusion unequivocally.



[edit on 28-2-2010 by Janky Red]

[edit on 28-2-2010 by Janky Red]