Gates: Europe's demilitarization has gone too far

There is no power capable of launching a significant attack on one of our European Union members. Russia doesn't even come close nor would it be in their strategic interest.

The only country that could threaten European stability by military means is the US. However, the odds of that happening are minuscule. Even if they would, our military strength would be sufficient to avert such an invasion, making the decision to spend our financial assets on the quality of live of the European people a very wise one.

Gates' remark is understandable though. America is increasingly getting involved in conflicts and who knows what they have planned on the horizon. One thing I do know, America is going to ask ''sissy Europe'' for help if they end up in yet another conflict.

Our defense industry is advanced and strong enough to supply our countries with the military technology needed in case of an inevitable conflict.



I count six out of ten European Union members making up the world's largest weapon exporters.



[edit on 24-2-2010 by Mdv2]

However idiotic and unrealistic it may be to lump Russia, China and Iran into one convenient "threat-package", the european heavy-hitters of France, the UK and the Germans alone vastly outspend those "threats". And there are 40 more countries in Europe.

Looking at these numbers, excuse me if I do not feel exactly threatened by american talk of Europes doom. Fact of the matter is that Europe follows the norm and is perfectly capable of defending itself against any conceivable and "sensible" threat on this world, while the US military expenditures are the outlandish, incomprehensible ones.

Which leaves us to discuss Mr Gates real agenda, which is that he wants European nations to pick up the tab of american expeditions, preferably using american-built equipment, so that he is able to cut american spending in turn.

This is of course understandable, but it ignores that the USA was and still is responsible for the two major engagements in Afghanistan and Iraq. Regardless of the circumstances, in both cases the USA was free to choose to invade these countries, topple their governments, and in the course instigate a complete overhaul of civil societies alien to us - it was in no way a necessity. This is exactly the situation countless of people have predicted to come, and which were laughed out the door at the time. Oh those poor ´murricans.

Regardless of that, it is a tragedy that so many young americans have to die in the dust, but never forget that the USA still deserves a harsh spanking for their repeated naughty, ill-conceived attempts at undermining and dividing the fledgling new european order and political coherence. Excuse us for not taking kindly to that shameless divide and conquer policy from a supposed ally which has cost the EU several years of beneficial development. We can have quite a long memory and there WILL be payback for that grudge in one form or the other.

Maybe that payback comes in the form of standing at the sidelines while the USA runs into the open blade.

[edit on 24/2/2010 by Lonestar24]

Originally posted by loner007

Originally posted by MikeboydUS

Originally posted by pazcat
Yep, he is right. Europe needs to arm up and man up.
Who knows what the U.S are capable of these days.

I'm American, but thats actually true too. Nations can radically change in a short time. Alliances can collapse and lead to all sorts of bad things.

Again to have peace, one must prepare for war.

Typical american drivel. Europeans are not too keen going into other peopels land and occuping it unlike Americans and if we want world peace maybe we should start by getting rid of the American war machine.

Why does everyone think its just the Americans? Um mm yea look at the history of Europe, lots and lots of wars since the beginning of civilization in that region. Typical arrogant mentality you have by just pointing out one country. Is there a hate America bandwagon in Europe? Maybe to end all these problems we should stop blaming other country's and start changing the politicians in charge as we are doing in the USA.

Originally posted by morf991
Why does everyone think its just the Americans? Um mm yea look at the history of Europe, lots and lots of wars since the beginning of civilization in that region.

Have you ever thought of the correlation between our bloody past and our current attitude towards war? I hope for America that they will remember our past as an example of how not to do things, but Iraq is a good example of the contrary.



[edit on 24-2-2010 by Mdv2]

Originally posted by loner007

Originally posted by MikeboydUS

Originally posted by pazcat
Yep, he is right. Europe needs to arm up and man up.
Who knows what the U.S are capable of these days.

I'm American, but thats actually true too. Nations can radically change in a short time. Alliances can collapse and lead to all sorts of bad things.

Again to have peace, one must prepare for war.

Typical american drivel. Europeans are not too keen going into other peopels land and occuping it unlike Americans and if we want world peace maybe we should start by getting rid of the American war machine.

Maybe the next big one will do us all a favor and finally wipe the weak bleeding heart progressive out of Europe. All you guys do is complain and then do nothing. The progressive mindset has made you weak and when the time comes you will perish into the history books and hopefully the story will be told so the next generations of europeans do not fall into the same trap.

Also I am not saying all europeans are weak but your butt cracks are starting to show if you let them pull your pants down to much farther you are in for a big surprise. And America in reality has nothing to do with it this is your problem. But I have a feeling we will once agian have to come and pull your pants back up for you.
:

[edit on 24-2-2010 by Subjective Truth]

[edit on 24-2-2010 by Subjective Truth]

reply to post by loner007


When you find youselves occupied by the Caliphate, please refrain from crying out to us. Twice is enough. If you refuse to defend yourselves, you have made a statement about your culture that Americans will take at face value.

Originally posted by Subjective Truth
But I have a feeling we will once agian have to come and pull your pants back up for you.

Oh really? You can't even pull your own pants up. You need European assistance for that in Iraq and Aghanistan and you continue to desperately beg us like a cry baby to deploy more troops and stay longer.



[edit on 24-2-2010 by Mdv2]

reply to post by Subjective Truth


There goes that "Team America" mentality again....

What you mean is that you assisted in the liberation of mainland Europe along with the other Allies in WW2.

I realise that is hard for you to swallow but its the truth.

Britain stopped the Germans at the channel and was never in danger of being invaded from that point onward and in terms of sacrifice in lost manpower the Russians did more to win WW2 than any of the Western nations combined.

Lest you forget they pushed the Germans back from Moscow to Berlin by themselves in terms of manpower, and in far worse circumstances than the combined forces in the west.

Duplicate post.

[edit on 24/2/10 by neformore]

Click here for more information.

Europe spends half what the US spends on defense but still has a vast military machine more than capable of defending it's self easily out spending and out manning Russia.The problem is Europe and the US are so heavily indebted that there will be increasing pressure to cut back military budgets .Also Europe's army is not an integrated military machine like the US therefor each nation in Europe has its own national defence replicating capabilities.
en.wikipedia.org...
en.wikipedia.org...

[edit on 24-2-2010 by INQUISITION11]

Originally posted by neformore
reply to post by Subjective Truth

 

There goes that "Team America" mentality again....

What you mean is that you assisted in the liberation of mainland Europe along with the other Allies in WW2.

I realise that is hard for you to swallow but its the truth.

Britain stopped the Germans at the channel and was never in danger of being invaded from that point onward and in terms of sacrifice in lost manpower the Russians did more to win WW2 than any of the Western nations combined.

Lest you forget they pushed the Germans back from Moscow to Berlin by themselves in terms of manpower, and in far worse circumstances than the combined forces in the west.

Actually, you are quite correct about the eastern front in WWII. Few Americans will not admit it, but it was the Soviet Union that put Hitler and his ilk in the grave. That does not bring dishonor on the Americans who fought, it is simply a fact, which any American military historian will agree with, even the ones at West Point. But of course it's easier to wave a flag than read history.

Originally posted by MikeboydUS


Again to have peace, one must prepare for war.

and then, having nothing to do, you end up doing a war!
fact is, when you have a regular army, why keep on investing in weapons when so many people is in need of help? because you like power better than giving food to children, that is.

Originally posted by Office 4256
reply to post by loner007

 

When you find youselves occupied by the Caliphate, please refrain from crying out to us. Twice is enough. If you refuse to defend yourselves, you have made a statement about your culture that Americans will take at face value.

what you mean by saying: refuse to defend yourself? europe is more than able at defending itself. the problem is the slowness of the burocratical stuff, for expample the nato, when there is something to decide as fast as possible.

reply to post by mutante


Its not an issue of power. If you do not defend yourself someone will take advantage of that eventually.

Forcing a population to completely depend on the government for food, education, and medicine is power.

Originally posted by Subjective Truth


Maybe the next big one will do us all a favor and finally wipe the weak bleeding heart progressive out of Europe. All you guys do is complain and then do nothing. The progressive mindset has made you weak and when the time comes you will perish into the history books and hopefully the story will be told so the next generations of europeans do not fall into the same trap.

[edit on 24-2-2010 by Subjective Truth]

not to offend anyone here, but the name of the last one who made a speech like this one in europe was "adolf".
since then, we don't much like this macho stuff. you know, 6 milion jews just a little part of people who died...

reply to post by MikeboydUS


so we've got to specify the discussion: europe is not defenseless (eurofigher right now in service capable of outmeneuvre quite a lot of north american jetfighters). from an administrative point of view, you are right: me too i think that the european union is becoming scary in its eccessive power. remember that europe is also the place where a lot of civilians disagreed from nazism and died heroically in the resistance, without an army behind them. here, there will always be people who man up against oppression.

reply to post by Equinox99


"I bet if you killed off every politician and government agent, and sent 1 regular citizen from every nation you could make peace."


Really? No idealism in that statement at all, is there?

I bet you your wrong. I think that "regular citizen" would quickly become a politician.