War Game Shows Dangers of Attacking Iran

Originally posted by poedxsoldiervet
reply to post by LadySkadi

 

No need to duck for cover, I am very Much anti-iraq war. Hell I am anti-war period, But I understand the need for it. Every Soldier who has any since is anti-war.

War is hell and should be avoided at all costs!

There are no do overs, there is no respawning! War is not a video game. People die, they have always died. Men Women and Children get caught in the crossfire. If people don't like war then I suggest taking that up with their leaders. Elected politicians declare wars. Not Soldiers.

The Soldier is the one who prays for peace but prepares for war. He is the one stuck in the cold, the muck and sees death first hand. All the chest pounding you see on Youtube videos of young ignorant soldiers with their chest pounding while they are hooping and hollering, All of that BS goes right out the window after their first real firefight.

If they are lucky enough to survive they come away with a much more serious and realistic understanding of the situation. If people have issues with how long the Iraq war lasted then I'd suggest researching Irans part in needlessly extending the conflict a full two years or more by training and supporting insurgents.



Enough Said.

I hear there's a Stargate in the Gulf of Aden! its surposed to open fully soon, and all Guns will not work anymore! awell might as well dream here as in Bed, Peace...

reply to post by poedxsoldiervet

"since" or "sense"?
You need to learn English, no wonder your intelligence is low enough to believe we needed to invade Iraq or any country in the Middle East. Your signature saying "bring back dooper" speaks a lot, nuff said.

Originally posted by DCDAVECLARKE
I hear there's a Stargate in the Gulf of Aden! its surposed to open fully soon, and all Guns will not work anymore! awell might as well dream here as in Bed, Peace...

Nice one.. you have Macgyver's number so I can get in there before the rush..?

Wanna get me some hot blond theoretical physicist before the word gets out..

[edit on 23/2/10 by Dermo]

Originally posted by DCDAVECLARKE
I hear there's a Stargate in the Gulf of Aden! its surposed to open fully soon, and all Guns will not work anymore! awell might as well dream here as in Bed, Peace...

Big Star for about the cutest avatar picture known to ATS!

I sure would enjoy a trip through that stargate hopefully to a place where murder and death isn't the preferred way to solve arguments.

One thing is for sure though and that is as societies go you can't get much more ancient than Persia's.

There is some evidence to suggest that the U.S. Military has taken a very high level of interest in Iraq's archeological past and antiquities could it be there is more to the trove in Iran that the U.S. Government covets?

Originally posted by dzonatas

Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
It ain't over until the fat lady sings.

True, and even with all the U.S. soldiers right on two borders of Iran, and even in Iran, we don't here any singing from either side.

Iran probably just say something like, "hey, stick around, you get to shoot down a few more UAVs for target practice."

Honestly ever since Mr. A was caught on Larry King Live exchanging the Master Mason’s handshake I have my real doubts as to how much of this is actually being orchestrated between elements in Tehran and the West to propel the Iranian people towards a new status quo that many of them might be reluctant to embrace.

There certainly is a cross section of Iranian society that longs for a loosening of Theocratic restrictions but the truth is that the majority in Iran are in fact content with the regime.

It was after all the CIA and George Bush Sr., who helped the Ayatollah Khomeini return to Iran from exile in Paris once it became apparent there was no way that the people would tolerate a reinstallation of the Shah’s government.

I am suspiciously of the humble opinion that at the leadership levels of society, all societies including Iran pretty much everything is staged for us humble peasants to compel us and convince us to do what’s right for our Masters.

It’s why I prefer to zig when everyone is being bade to zag.

Of course if they are using reverse psychology on me I am still screwed.

Thanks for posting!

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler


Not to get too far off topic...

It does make one wonder why the US is presently in or near two out of the four locations of the beginnings of Human civilizations.

The Indus valley just to the East of Afghanistan and the Euphrates river.

reply to post by SLAYER69


Well said slayer, I was 19 when I went to Iraq, and boy was I ready to kill. But the minute I the bullets began to fly, the minute I saw friend and foe alike fall and die horrible deaths, the reality that this wasnt a video game set in... Well put.

Originally posted by TSawyer
reply to post by poedxsoldiervet

 

"since" or "sense"?
You need to learn English, no wonder your intelligence is low enough to believe we needed to invade Iraq or any country in the Middle East. Your signature saying "bring back dooper" speaks a lot, nuff said.

And your an Assclown, but you dont see me getting upset about that. The fact that you attack Dooper who is no longer here to defend himself speaks highly of you.

The fact is we did invade, and we won. Now I am so sorry you hate the America, but hey face it the war in Iraq is over and America won... Stick that and your grammer in your peace pipe and smoke it.

[edit on 23-2-2010 by poedxsoldiervet]

Originally posted by SLAYER69
reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler

 

Not to get too far off topic...

It does make one wonder why the US is presently in or near two out of the four locations of the beginnings of Human civilizations.

The Indus valley just to the East of Afghanistan and the Euphrates river.

Doesn't seem off topic to me at all. We are in fact fighting wars in rather strange places. Well at least for a guy who lives on Miami Beach they are strange.

I don't know if this is true but I hear that in Afghanistan there are not two Starbucks on every block!

Crazy that they are having such trouble finding franchise owners over there huh?

The question remains though are we over there for more than just oil and drugs.

When you consider that the Space Shuttle Columbia's ill fated last mission had on board an Israeli Crew Member and a mysterious ancient artifact scientists were interested in exposing to space you have to wonder just what might be lurking around in some of those old ruins over there.

Good observation Slayer

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler


What do you mean an ancient artifact?

Originally posted by poedxsoldiervet
reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler

 

What do you mean an ancient artifact?

According to news accounts at the time of Columbia’s tragic destruction upon reentering Earth’s atmosphere there was an Israeli Astronaut/Scientist aboard who had taken an unspecified ancient artifact on the shuttle flight for the purposes of taking the artifact in space.

The news accounts did not specify what the artifact was or the exact reason why it was being taken into space, but presented it more as a human interest story regarding the fact that an Israeli Astronaut was on the ill fated flight and why.

Beyond that there is not much I can add.

reply to post by poedxsoldiervet The fact is we did invade, and we won. Now I am so sorry you hate the America, but hey face it the war in Iraq is over and America won... Stick that and your grammer in your peace pipe and smoke it.



Yes we have pulled it off. Thank God for Barack Obama. He got the job done that Bush wouldn't do.



[edit on 23-2-2010 by damwel]

reply to post by damwel


Obama had nothing to do with winning the war, the surge happened on W's Watch. The surge won the war, now when and if Obamas Afghan surge works he can claim victory for that, but for now chalk this one up to the Military

reply to post by poedxsoldiervet


So if the mission is accomplished why are we still there?

Why is Iraq still torn apart in daily violence?

Either we haven't won the war (as of yet) or the bar sure has been lowered!

Hey does this mean we won in Vietnam too?

Thank heavens those pesky Vietnamese never learned to fly airplanes. I shutter to think what might have happened to our skyline if they had!

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler


That's an interesting scenario but not very deep. I am surprised the think tanks didn't include other factors i.e, external factors or maybe they did and it was not published in the article. Or maybe that's how it will turn out. No way to tell how things will turn out when it happens on ground for sure.

What is sure that any Nuclear attack (yes the bunker busters are nuclear) on Iran will have these effects:

Mini-Nukes

The earth-penetrating capability of the [nuclear] B61-11 is fairly limited, however. Tests show it penetrates only 20 feet or so into dry earth when dropped from an altitude of 40,000 feet. Even so, by burying itself into the ground before detonation, a much higher proportion of the explosion energy is transferred to ground shock compared to a surface bursts. Any attempt to use it in an urban environment, however, would result in massive civilian casualties. Even at the low end of its 0.3-300 kiloton yield range, the nuclear blast will simply blow out a huge crater of radioactive material, creating a lethal gamma-radiation field over a large area.

www.fas.org...

So the question is after a country is nuked how will it react? Will it citizen be angry and respond or be happy keeping in mind that even opposition party of Iran also backs Iran's nuclear stand.

reply to post by December_Rain


Some great observations but busting bunkers didn’t do much good in the First Gulf War with its super altered Vietnam Daisy Cutter 2,000 pound bombs designed to penetrate goodness knows what.

One of the things historians debate is how well the Ayatollah Khomeini would have been able to hold together the odd coalition of disparate Iranians he cobbled together in the aftermath of the 1978 Student Revolution if it hadn’t been for the galvanizing effect that the invasion of Iran by Iraq had on the Iranian people causing them to rally around the Theocracy’s Battle Standard.

I don’t believe the domestic turmoil and dissent is nearly of the epic proportions that the Western Mainstream Media and Governments make it out to be, but if anyone is seriously hoping for a regime change to occur within Iran itself which in the last century has happened 4 times already the very best way to derail it would be for a foreign power to militarily attack Iran.

I do though believe the study in question that the original article is based off of looked solely at military responses and considered the political fallout between the United States and Israel more significantly than they did what ever political cards the Iranian regime might play.

Bottom line as far as I am concerned until nuclear tipped war heads start leaving Iranian airspace bound for points beyond we ought to just leave well enough alone.

Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
reply to post by poedxsoldiervet

 

So if the mission is accomplished why are we still there?

You should know the answer to that more than anybody else. Stop toying.

Why is Iraq still torn apart in daily violence?

What part of the ancient rivalry between the Sunni and Shia don't you know?

Either we haven't won the war (as of yet) or the bar sure has been lowered!

What? You wish for those combat troops to be let loose again to ride shotgun over the Iraqi population?

Hey does this mean we won in Vietnam too?

Why? Is there a Northern part of Iraq that's being supported by two other Super powers like North Vietnam was? In the Vietnam war we stayed in South Vietnam fighting a defensive war. You know full well if a total war broke out we would have turned the North into a Glass Parking Lot.

Let's not be stupid.

reply to post by SLAYER69


Wow opinion stated as fact much? The sooner you actually come up with facts to BACK UP your statements give me a ring my number is on the internet....

Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
reply to post by December_Rain

 

Some great observations but busting bunkers didn’t do much good in the First Gulf War with its super altered Vietnam Daisy Cutter 2,000 pound bombs designed to penetrate goodness knows what.

The Daisy cutters were developed to clear large amounts of vegetation so Helos could land. NOT for penetrating bunkers.

I hope this isn't an example of how today's discussion is headed.