Pentagon Quietly Explores De-Citizenship of US Citizen Terrorists

reply to post by soficrow

...'Ya gotta love this Senate. Gives corporations the Constitutional Rights of Persons one week, starts putting a choke hold on individual citizens the next.

The Senate did no such thing.

I am no fan of this Administration or most of the members of the Senate, but this statement is 100% false.

These threads would really be nice if people stuck to the facts. They're bad enough, already. We don't need to make up junk.

Deny ignorance.

jw

Originally posted by jdub297
No, it wasn't. It was Steve Clemons', a blogger's for TPM.

With all fairness to the OP, he is only commenting on what is said in the article. Steve Clemons claims the Pentagon is looking into this. From one of his responses to someone's comments:

I did link to a legal code that deals with taking away citizenship, but I don't know if it has been applied, challenged, or what the legal cases and precedents surrounding this issue are. What I know is what some Generals and Pentagon staff have been brainstorming about -- so I put that out for response.

The "PENTAGON" does not make laws. Nor do they declare martial law, the "Commander in Chief" does that. It would be Obama's call if this went forward and the Democratic Congress'.

This is why I raised the question—why is the Pentagon, specifically, looking into this? Did anyone in the Executive Branch ask the Pentagon to look into it? We should be worried that someone in the Obama administration would ask for this matter to be studied, but I think it's still far more worrisome if the Pentagon is looking into this by their own initiative. I'd like to have some answers to these questions.

Oh thank god then if I speak out enough, and loudly, I can be exiled from the U.S. and be labeled a political exile, go live in Canada, and watch America continue crumbling.

Sign me up for some of this, please.

reply to post by DarkspARCS


Well isn't this a kick in the choppers? From what I've been seeing, we have the current administration worried about the internet and those people on it who share their free thoughts and ideas. They want to regulate it so that the information is correct and that we free thinkers aren't misled. Isn't that nice of them? I believe they called it cognitive infiltration.

Now, they can label someone a terrorist and strip them of their citizenship and deal with them properly. This is eerily reminiscent of another regime that we are all well acquainted with and I need not even mention its name. For fear that my free thinking may provoke a further study of my beliefs.

It is getting worse by the second it seems and there is no way to turn it around. I know of a story where someone was given the leadership of a nation. Seeking council from the previous successful administration, he was told to listen to the people and do nothing in secret. He dismissed these ideas and shunned the older councilors and sought the ideas of his much younger, czars, for a better word.

The end result was tragedy and chaos. I feel we see a repeat of this little story and we can expect the same result. The funny thing is, it's what we wanted. We wanted change didn't we? Change we can believe in. Oh, we're going to get what we wanted alright and in the end we can only look at ourselves and say at least we got what we wanted. Or were we tricked into thinking along these lines of change we can believe in? My glasses are fogged and I cannot clean them. S+F great thread here.

Hmm interesting read for sure but as Converge already stated 8 U.S.C. already has a provision for people who commit treason and take up arms against the U.S.A. The pentagon can think about the idea all they want, but they cannot do anything.

The power to write that kind of legislation comes only from congress. Citizenship is something you are born with, it’s involuntary, that is until you decide to give it up one day. Which you can do any time you want to.  Hell half of the pentagons ideas never even see the light of day so I can only imagine what they have thought of before this.

I doubt anything like this would even get through congress and even then if it did who knows…it would be a sad day. I wouldn’t count on the Supreme Court to strike anything down like that as they usually stay out of that little area its congress’s domain.

reply to post by Everwatcher33

The SCOTUS is hearing argument today from the Obama Administration that granting legal aid to "radioactive" groups, people or advocates is UNLAWFUL and SEDITIOUS!

The PKK (Kurdish militants) were denied legal support and even, arguably, according to the Obama JUSTICE dept., amicus curiae briefing by an American freedom and advocacy group.

www.usatoday.com...

In the first test of its kind since the Sept. 11 attacks, the Supreme Court will consider today whether a federal law that bars support to designated terrorist groups violates First Amendment rights of free speech and association.

The crux of the case, which pits First Amendment values against government anti-terrorist efforts, is whether the law that traces to 1996 and was amended by the 2001 USA Patriot Act is so poorly defined that it criminalizes pure speech.

Among those challenging the "material support" prohibition are the Humanitarian Law Project and its president, longtime civil rights advocate Ralph Fertig, who was a Freedom Rider trying to integrate the South in the 1960s and is a professor of social work at the University of Southern California.

This should be of the utmost concern! Instead, we read a blogger's speculation about what some pentagon staffers talk about when they get wasted or have a beer summit.

What a waste of bandwidth.

Wake up!

jw

Actually, it would be wise to strip all adherents to Islam of citizenship.

I warned back in 2003 that muslims residing in America should begin self deportation. That the Jihad attack of 9/11 would result in the eventual demonization of muslims and their eventual ostracism from American culture.

And here we now see some semblance of clearheaded thinking coming out of the Pentagon. It doesn't go far enough, but it is a good start. A muslim engaged in jihad has by definition renounced any claim to citizenship in any nation save for the nation of Islam.

reply to post by jdub297


That's an important story jdub deserving of it's own thread. The implications for American citizens is quite ominous as is the story in the OP IMHO.
The Pentagon discussing possible laws for the US populace is very disturbing to me. The last time they did that AND IT BECAME LAW was the Japanese interments in WW2 if I am correct.
Keep us posted on the SCOTUS hearings please. Thanks.

Originally posted by mike_trivisonno
Actually, it would be wise to strip all adherents to Islam of citizenship.

Then your prejudiced idea is as unconstitutional and insane as the Pentagon's. Sorry, but there is no other way to put it.

[edit on 23-2-2010 by converge]

In the original 13th Amendment, which has been proven to be the law of the land at that time, it was established that certain types of activity were in fact punished by loosing ones citizenship.

"If any citizen of the United States shall accept, claim, receive, or retain any title of nobility or honour, or shall without the consent of Congress, accept and retain any present, pension, office, or emolument of any kind whatever, from any emperor, king, prince, or foreign power, such person shall cease to be a citizen of the United States, and shall be incapable of holding any office of trust or profit under them, or either of them."

www.amendment-13.org...


"any kind whatever" would be a broad application of the meaning, and would cover many situations we presently find ourselves in.

If the original 13th was the law of the land at one time, and has not been repealed legally, then it is still the law of the land.

Of course there will be debate as to its reality and legitimacy, but if you research it for yourself you will see there is a great deal of evidence supporting it rational.

reply to post by All Seeing Eye
Those scenarios are contemplated in 8 U.S.C. §1481

(2) taking an oath or making an affirmation or other formal
declaration of allegiance to a foreign state or a political
subdivision thereof, after having attained the age of eighteen
years; or (...)

(4)(A) accepting, serving in, or performing the duties of any
office, post, or employment under the government of a foreign
state or a political subdivision thereof, after attaining the age
of eighteen years if he has or acquires the nationality of such
foreign state; or (B) accepting, serving in, or performing the
duties of any office, post, or employment under the government of
a foreign state or a political subdivision thereof, after
attaining the age of eighteen years for which office, post, or
employment an oath, affirmation, or declaration of allegiance is
required; or

Originally posted by converge
reply to post by All Seeing Eye

 

Those scenarios are contemplated in 8 U.S.C. §1481

(2) taking an oath or making an affirmation or other formal
declaration of allegiance to a foreign state or a political
subdivision thereof, after having attained the age of eighteen
years; or (...)

(4)(A) accepting, serving in, or performing the duties of any
office, post, or employment under the government of a foreign
state or a political subdivision thereof, after attaining the age
of eighteen years if he has or acquires the nationality of such
foreign state; or (B) accepting, serving in, or performing the
duties of any office, post, or employment under the government of
a foreign state or a political subdivision thereof, after
attaining the age of eighteen years for which office, post, or
employment an oath, affirmation, or declaration of allegiance is
required; or

Well, in that case , where is the debate?

There have been some excellent posts in this thread. Others, not so much so.

But in the spirit of the conspiracy site that hosts our musings, I would like to remind some, and mention to others, that when you use the term "Pentagon" you are essentially referring to the military-industrial (corporate) complex which is almost literally 'married' to the transnational financial cartel that effectively controls our political machinery.

Ideological nonsense aside, the status of citizenship only has notional merit in court... and not so much so in admiralty court.

These considerations that have been presented for our consideration are theater. In the end, tyrants do what they want; laws are merely for controlling the citizens of the sate, NOT protecting them.... THAT is the aim. It is fairly easy to find an excuse to apply a 'new' law, or 'new' precept of Juris prudence; they no longer need to justify to us.... and any effort to do so is, once again, theater.

"Take away the citizenship of a citizen" should raise the hackles of ANY conscious American who isn't otherwise entrenched in the 'fear' meme that media feeds us every day.

I have a beautifully crafted idea - and you gentlemen have given this thought fire with your posts pertaining to the original 13th amendment as well as what's outlined in the current Code.

"If any citizen of the United States shall accept, claim, receive, or retain any title of nobility or honor, or shall without the consent of Congress, accept and retain any present, pension, office, or emolument of any kind whatever, from any emperor, king, prince, or foreign power, such person shall cease to be a citizen of the United States, and shall be incapable of holding any office of trust or profit under them, or either of them."

Those scenarios are contemplated in 8 U.S.C. §1481 (2) taking an oath or making an affirmation or other formal declaration of allegiance to a foreign state or a political subdivision thereof, after having attained the age of eighteen years; or (...) (4)(A) accepting, serving in, or performing the duties of any office, post, or employment under the government of a foreign state or a political subdivision thereof, after attaining the age of eighteen years if he has or acquires the nationality of such foreign state; or (B) accepting, serving in, or performing the duties of any office, post, or employment under the government of a foreign state or a political subdivision thereof, after attaining the age of eighteen years for which office, post, or employment an oath, affirmation, or declaration of allegiance is required;

I'm of the opinion that those who are officially involved with ANY religious group, cult, order, faction, or denomination should be banned from having the ability to dictate the terms of law for this country.

Religions have all of them - in one form or another - written off their support for this government be it in the form of objections to social security, serving in the armed forces, participation in jury duty, pledging allegiance to the flag, etc.

Religions have all of them made the statement that they serve 'GOD' over Government.

Some of them claim to not even be part of a "Country" - such as Jehovah's Witnesses, and the Amish.

Some religions practice child sacrifice, endorse anarchy, and command it's practitioners to commit acts of oppression, violence, sexual and mental abuse, and aggression against fellow humans... And then spread lies about it. (sound familiar to anyone here?)

Free Masonry is a form of Religion, in ALL of it's various forms, whether it be Rosicrucian, Luciferian, Franciscan, Thelemetic, Illumanist, Bohemian, Solomonic, Enochian, Pagan, Templar, Psionic, etc...

There are thousands of Masonic Orders - each with their own brand of beliefs, practices, and organizations that exist in support of such - Right on down to Job's Daughters, and the Boy Scouts of America.

They've even formed their own insider 'secret service' groups, like Cosa Nostra, Nuestra Familia, Ma Fia, Triad, the CIA, ISI, Moussad, and others - to perform illegal acts against others in the interest of thier organization. Even Hitler has his S.S., Gestapo, and Wiess Macht groups, and Lenin his K.G.B.

People are told these entities are government factions, but they are to the contrary organizations created in support of an organization, which also has control of a country's government.

After all... what would a Vatican be without a Swiss Guard, Opus Dei. or Knights of Columbus?....

What would America be without the Shriners, the Red Cross, or the American Legion?

Yeah, I can go on and on, and yeah, some of these organization are honest organizations with good people in them... at least in public.

When they have their closed door, members only sessions however, THAT's when things get a bit interesting... However, the closed door sessions of REAL importance are the ones only certain members of those memberships are allowed to partake in.

These are the meetings with the AGENDA... And I think that most here on ATS realize that every one of the organizations I've mentioned here all have AGENDAS.

What America Needs is an AGENDA free person - who doesn't have the interests of an Organization first and foremost at heart before that of the American Peoples - to be responsible for the Governance of America.



I propose that the law as it exists be utilized to rid the American Government of all the agendas conspiring to take American Power and use it against other's of differing agenda. I propose that we use these laws to cleanse our leadership of the agendas that conspire to utilize American Wealth to enrich those who do not deserve it, and in turn return it's benevolence to the American People.

This country has so much going for it. There shouldn't be homeless people, or kids who are starving here in America. We should be amongst the top of the class regarding intelligence, wisdom, and tolerance.

It is because of these organizations and their agendas that we're not. Get rid of their sphere of influence from amongst those that dictate the law, and who enact reform, and I'll guarantee America will rebound gloriously.

reply to post by DarkspARCS


I'm for throwing out immigrants who have ties to terrorism or are terrorists themselves!

reply to post by DarkspARCS


As much as it pains me personally, I must agree with your point. The Country must come first, and all others must follow.

In another sense, I suspect doing "Gods" good work can translate to taking care of the house we all live in.

Originally posted by All Seeing Eye
reply to post by DarkspARCS

 

As much as it pains me personally, I must agree with your point. The Country must come first, and all others must follow.

In another sense, I suspect doing "Gods" good work can translate to taking care of the house we all live in.

Indeed, I know your pain, as if the very Organization set up to guard me against tyranny, lies, oppression, and exploitation has instead become the very utensil used to do these things against me - their son. As an 8th generation American with a strong American heritage enshrining my family bloodline, I should have been taught the truth, been given the education I deserve, been encouraged to grow with the achievements of my intelligence, all within the bounds of a free environment based upon the excercise of one's educated free will.

But as the saying goes, "Power Corrupts the Hearts of Good Men".

The unfortunate thing about it all is.... that these people are doing what they are doing because they 'BELIEVE" that it's God's Will. Honestly, with all of their education and learning that they've 'educated' themselves with to think they understand the mind of God, they have in turn lost the very core of God's principles He set forth pertaining to His Children - and now have allowed it to warp their very understandings to reflect a belief that those that are not of their order are thus a sub human class of animals, to be governed accordingly.

yes, a Religious Belief contributed to a destructive and dominating agenda, orchestrated by those with the power and the money.

I know that there are Free Masons out there who detest what they see happening yet, cannot do much about it because the oath to "not harm in any way another member, nor bring them before the profane courts" binds their hands.

however, your last statement is indeed the key to it all. "Do unto others what God wants to do unto you" is what I call it.

EVERY American is a MASON AT SIGHT - just by the fact that they were born an American.

THAT'S THE WAY IT SHOULD HAVE BEEN UNDERSTOOD...

But instead things progressed via the "king and crown" illusion, where those with persistance idealized Masonic membership as prime over everything else and thus subjected themselves under the Defender of the Faith, and Prince of the Holy Roman Empire's "benevolence" to secure a title, or a birthright and thus unravelled America's powers and freedoms to secure such.

HISTORY OF THE RISE, PROGRESS AND TERMINATION OF THE AMERICAN REVOLUTION:

"This is the usual course of human conduct, however painful the reflection may be to the patriot in retirement, and to the philosopher absorbed in theoretic disquisitions on human liberty, or the portion of natural and political freedom to which man has a claim. The Game of deception is played over and over to mislead the judgement of men, and work on their enthusiasm, until by their own consent, hereditary crowns and distinctions are fixed, and some scion of royal descent is entailed forever upon them. Thus by habit they are ready to believe that mankind in general are incapable of the enjoyment of that liberty which nature seems to prescribe, and that the mass if the people have not the capacity nor the right to choose their own masters."

~ Mercy Otis Warren, 1805

Idea in point:

I'll bet that the entire Bush family has a Letter of Marquee on file with the Queen of England in light of the supposed state of war this country exists within, that justifies their piracy of American Wealth, Exploitation of American Resources, American Intelligence, American Labor, American Power, and America's children.

I could go on and on, but I'm sure folks get the point. The quote I posted above was from a very educational historical documentary about the events that led up to, happened during, and occurred after the American Revolutionary War, written by a first hand eyewitness, in the utmost of clarity and detail.

Mercy Otis Warren is an American Hero for writing volume's 1 and 2 of the book HISTORY OF THE RISE, PROGRESS AND TERMINATION OF THE AMERICAN REVOLUTION.

I wholeheartedly recommend it to anyone wanting to know the stories behind the beginning of America's downfall...