Eating Alices Cookie didnt take me to Wonderland. Stop telling people to avoid medication!!!

Gee.....

As a senior exec in this awful medical industry.....

I guess I just must be as evil as.....

I really didn't think I was all that bad.....

Actually, I thought I wasn't a bad sort of bloke....



[edit on 22-2-2010 by Maybe...maybe not]

reply to post by OzWeatherman


Food additives mess up the entire bodies systems in more ways than we even know they do! I am not saying they are the only cause, but they help nothing and stopping eating them makes a world of difference..
Also, i am not one who just skims a thread and then posts, i did read it carefully, and i do understand you are telling people they arent professionals so to stop telling others not to take meds..but yourself, not being a professional on the subject equally shouldnt tell people they are wrong about it..
None of this is to say i completely disagree with you, i for one wouldnt ever step in to tell anyone not to do anything, they are free and clear adults who should be more than capable of thinking and taking action for themselves, not simply doing as a stranger on ATS tells them! if they do, thats their own stupidity.

Mod-Note

Civility and Decorum are expected at all times on ATS. Instead of attacking the person, address the topic. Failure to do so will result in point-deductions, post-removals and, in time, post-bans.

reply to post by whatukno


I'll see a homeopath or a naturopath thankyou because they actually heal people.

But again, how do you know your qualified to say you can trust a doctor? Even another doctor? Because all they know is what they've been told. Why would a doctor know any better than you or I? Theres just gonna be a bunch more of us humans behind the doctors ear with a list of symptoms saying take this for this symptom and this for that.

Where does the discussion for the ROOT CAUSES fit in?

Find a doctor with atleast enough common sense to be interested in the root cause of an illness and you might have my interest.

Originally posted by Scarcer
reply to post by whatukno

 

Why would a doctor know any better than you or I?

Ummm.....

Because he/she has studied for 20 years?

Originally posted by Scarcer
reply to post by -Thom-

 

Didn't most cancers and diabetes not appear until just the past hundred years or two?

Probably, yes.

Originally posted by Scarcer
You can cure scurvey with vitamin C. But you can't cure cancers or diabetes with a simple change in food?

I don't know, to my knowledge, healthy food can't cure the former two diseases you mention. Unhealthy food, however, is indeed a cause.

Originally posted by Scarcer
the FDA allows all this junk, but they also allow all these meds... Hmm, maybe if I just quite eating them I wont need me pills

Though in the case of diabetes it might be slightly more complex. Should just avoid getting it in the first place, unless you got type 1.

I understand your point, and I, too would suggest a healthy eating habit. Don't sue Burgerking or Camel
However, getting a disease or not is based on a combination of genetics and a 'trigger'. Often, the trigger is an unhealthy lifestyle. You're right, in the case of welfare diseases (?), people can actually avoid it quite easily. Just taking meds blindly for such things is indeed not the solution.
But in the case of depression and cancer, things are different. We don't even know how cancer and depression and schizophrenia, for a great deal, trigger. Ofcourse, we can point out finger at certain causes. But you can't hold the person resposible in any way for getting these diseases. I know you're not stating explicitly that it's the person's fault, but basically you say they could have avoided it, no? And then change it through eating habits. But I just don't agree with that point of view; with a new society comes new diseases. And not just the obesitas and diabetes ones, but also cancer and schizophrenia, to name a few. It is thought that schizophrenia might be caused by a combination of genetics and living in an urban area. What would you suggest to do then?
I know what I would.
If the person wants the 'problem solved', just give that person meds to suppress any possible hallucinations. In the case of depression it is even harder, but sometimes, meds are beneficial for this as well.

Disclaimer: there are, unfortunately, too many doctors who act just the wrong way, giving the field a bad name. Just what you state in a later post, Scarcer, I recognice that foolish behavior. But that is not a valid reason to assume the attitude of meds = bad.

Sorry for the stream-of-consciousness like post.





[edit on 22-2-2010 by -Thom-]

reply to post by OzWeatherman


I admit that I really DO NOT like the idea of taking MED'S, which is from 100% personal experience, and I admit I have said to some members on ATS in the past and people in real life not to take medication because of my views on them and what I have seen some do to people, essentially kill them and completely ruin life’s.

And although I do admit that some medications can be helpful I’ll always be against taking dome meds (especially depression pills) but like I have said that's 100% because of my own personal view on them and what I have seen it do to loved ones.

Having all of that in mind I really do agree with this thread and the message it's preaching because yes even though I have done it it's wrong to tell others to believe in something simply because you believe in it or it's wrong to argue until you can't argue no more just because you wasn’t someone else feeling the same way as you.

I've atleast tried to learn my lesson and have stopped trying to force people to believe in what i believe in, simply because i believe in it.

S +F



[edit on 22-2-2010 by Rising Against]

Originally posted by OzWeatherman
reply to post by Full_Vision

 

1. Food additives have nothing to do with depression, its caused by a hormone imbalance, not a chemical imbalance

[not an attack of any kind]

I have my reasons to disagree and say that chemicals can greatly affect emotions and mental health. One for instance one popular culprit is aspartame.

And boy did a feel like utter crap when I chewed gum on a daily basis. But I guess you wouldn't call that a severe case of mental disorder or depression unless it continued for a long time. Thing is a lot of chemicals are in our foods that we don't know about. And many people continue eating these foods not knowing that whats in these foods is the very reason they are taking placebo pills.

On the other hand, you say this as though you know what your talking about. Then you say people shouldn't be saying such things unless they are educated more or less.

Just pointing that out.

Originally posted by Scarcer
reply to post by Full_Vision

 

Strange thing is, I've personally been told similar stories from friends.

Specifically one with ADHD who was on meds. None of them worked quite right, and kept texting me when ever she was having panic attacks or feeling depressed; which were side affects.

I got a question though. I've experienced salvia divinorum myself to a high level and I've heard of stories of depressed people getting better just from using it.

Any depressed/previously depressed people have anything to say about it?

ADHD is another huge issue i think, and one thats being used to benefit school systems, doctors and pharma companies all over the place..start them out young on chemically man- made drugs and they have the kids for life.. I am sorry to hear your friend has gone through so much trouble with, and yes, there are whole books full of medications to hand out for the disorder.. As for Salvia Divinorum, the jury is still kind of out on that one i think lol.. it works for some, for others not at all.. but it certainly can enlighten a person (initially used in ancient times for divination and guidence of shamans for example) and in enlightening someone it can help substantially with mental states.. dont take my word on this, i am not a professional, just someone whos done her studies and has come to certain conclusions due to personal experience and research

reply to post by -Thom-


Lol, let me clear myself up. By saying not to eat the food the FDA is giving the green light to, I don't mean that eating foods is going to cure you. I meant that the foods your eating are likely the reason why your sick in the first place.
(Hold, don't know if I just didn't see that additional line in your comment or if you added that in after the initial post. If so my bad for the misread.)


Though I agree about the genetics and all too, but I think the genetics is given too much credit since the additives and chemicals in our food are usually overlooked when people are talking about why people get sick or end up with a physical dysfunction.

[edit on 22-2-2010 by Scarcer]

I studied Nursing at Uni and practiced for a couple of years before moving on in disgust.

I have firsthand experience of medications completely destroying patients lives on a semi-regular basic, do you?

This is not to say that ALL medications are bad for you but this isn't the point. The point is, do you truely believe you can trust the people who manufacture and tout these medications? I don't think so and if you do, IMO you're very naive.

Most of the ailments that are prescribed medications would benefit much more from less meds, regular exercise and a healthier diet.

I personally went through a strong bout of depression coupled with anxiety. The doctor put me on Cymbalta at first, which i took for a few months, upped the dosage, etc. and ended up going through mood swings which led the doctors to believe i was bi-polar, so they added seroquel to my pill diet as well as Clonazepam.
After almost losing my job because the Seroquel put me into a 16+ hour hibernation every time i took even a fraction of the pill, i stopped taking it, because it was causing me to be more depressed and anxious since i couldn't adhere to any sort of schedule.
The second pill i kicked out of my routine was Cymbalta. Cymbalta immediately disintegrated my suicidal thoughts and tendencies as well as making me less sad for my waking hours. I attempted to quit Cymbalta once, which included withdrawal symptoms that ranged from brain zaps to utter confusion and then moodswings and suicidal thoughts were back in full. I restarted my Cymbalta routine for a few more months before stopping completely, again followed by less severe mood swings and the same brain zaps which were like a hex that hit me and put me into a stupor for a few seconds.
For the entirety of my battle against depression i was also seeing a therapist every couple of weeks. Therapy helped me realize that my thoughts and emotions aren't just random, but my thoughts influence my emotions and my emotions influence my thoughts. Since learning that i can control how i feel by determining how i choose to lay out my thought process i can be in the best mood of my life whenever i choose, without an anti-depressant. Although suicidal thoughts still fly through my brain consistantly, i choose not to acknowledge them, i don't entertain the suicidal thoughts, i simply direct my thoughts toward something that is positive.
Though this is my story, i agree completely with the OP. Nobody should be giving e-advice about depression unless it is to seek therapy, because even though it sounds horrible, it's better than you can possibly feel now if you are suffering from depression. Also, the choice to take medication is ultimately dictated by the individual.

[edit on 22-2-2010 by CollectivelyCrazy]

[edit on 22-2-2010 by CollectivelyCrazy]

Originally posted by Dookzor
This is not to say that ALL medications are bad for you but this isn't the point. The point is, do you truely believe you can trust the people who manufacture and tout these medications? I don't think so and if you do, IMO you're very naive.

And you, like many others have missed the point of the OP

Im not advocating the use of medication. Its about using personal experiences as medical advice, rather than consulting people in the industry.

reply to post by Scarcer


What I am not talking about is what you do for yourself. What I am talking about is what you tell others to do. If you tell others not to take their medication, and they actually need that medication, you could hurt them.

If you are taking something and it's working for you, far be it for me to tell you otherwise. But if someone that has more education and training than me tells someone to take a medication, and you tell them to not take a medication. and they listen to you and their condition gets worse, well that's a problem.

I personally don't care what you take or like or don't take. That's your choice, but telling other members here to not take medication is dangerous.

Originally posted by Scarcer
reply to post by -Thom-

 

Didn't most cancers and diabetes not appear until just the past hundred years or two?

No, they were just not diagnosed as such, because the medical knowledge was not sufficient enough. They have found Egyptian mummies who probably died of cancer. Funny, no additives or chemicals in their food.

As for clinical depression, having gone through it, I can say it has bugger all to do with spirituality and everything to do with a chemical/hormonal imbalance in the brain. This can be re-balanced using antidepressants. These do not leave you feeling "void of emotion" as a previous poster said, but instead make you feel normal again, leaving you to experience the full range of human emotion (both positive and negative) with clarity.

Most people think that clinical depression makes the sufferer feel sad. This is not the case, the usual feelings are of confusion, isolation, lethargy and pointlessness. These feelings lead to anger and frustration and even complete apathy, which only isolate the sufferer more. You are still completely capable of being in a good mood and most people manage to hide the symptoms very well by pretending to be positive when being forced to socialise.

Antidepressants are not addictive in the slightest and after the balance has been restored, the patient can usually stop taking them very easily without any withdrawal and be completely cured, unless of course there is some underlying medical cause of the imbalance, in which case there may be no cure, only treatment.

reply to post by CollectivelyCrazy


G'day CollectivelyCrazy

Thank you.....

I found it very interesting to read your thoughtful, well written post



Kind regards
Maybe...maybe not

reply to post by nik1halo


Exactly.

9876543

reply to post by Maybe...maybe not


thank you very much, im glad when i decided to post something it wasn't ridiculous, the inability to make paragraphs in my post is still driving me up the walls though.

I got two question for everyone.

BUT I am going to ask this in two ways so you can understand the points of view I'm proposing.

1.

View: What happens is a person is exposed to a limited amount of information and points of view. Say they only have their doctors to consult, they are more likely to obey that one person without a single thought because no one challenges the consensus of that doctor?

Question: Is it more important for the person to listen just to that single doctor, or to have as many points of views and opinions as possible in order to make a more mature decision?

2.

View: Because of free speech and the willingness to spread information, you have many people claiming many things for health advice.

Question: Who's fault is it if someone decides to put something in their body and has a bad experience?

Originally posted by CollectivelyCrazy
reply to post by Maybe...maybe not

 

thank you very much, im glad when i decided to post something it wasn't ridiculous, the inability to make paragraphs in my post is still driving me up the walls though.

G'day again CollectivelyCrazy

You are very welcome.

I sent you a U2U.....

Kind regards
Maybe...maybe not