If "God" was not the creator...

I am going to play along for a second here and I hope that you, the reader, can do so as well.
Let's take this concept or even hypothesis, if you will, of "God".
This invisible personality in the sky that has many interpretations. Whatever you want to call it or however you see it allow me to pose a question (preferably to believers, but athiests you can play along too for fun ).

If this all poweful entity did not create the Earth/universe would that change your feelings/relationship toward "God"?

To me without that 'creator' label you're only left with a creeper in space who stares at humans and plays with their minds.

It's still the same "God" only he didn't really do anything.
Would you still defend your "God" in the face of non-believers?

Do you think you would still love 'your' "God" even if he/she/it/they (whatever) did not have anything to do with your existence?

If your going to actually try a discussion, its best to remain neutral. tossing in baited questions and a clear distaste will not produce a open discussion and at best, will more than likely be ignored.

Lets try a different way of phrasing it:

Theists: God is generally attributed to a creator being that created everything straight across. Would you still feel the same if come to find out the God being described in the bible was actually just a advanced ET that truely did have technology one could attribute to a Diety, but alas, was simply just another creation from somewhere else that influenced mankind and even made mankind in their image (biped carbon based DNA/RNA lifeforms)...lets even say this being imbued you with a conscious energy that continues on after death...a sort of soul creator, but was not the creator of all (yet was what the bible spoke of).

Would you stil have the same feelings towards our personal creator, even though it wasn't the creator of all things, or would you feel that even though these potentially billions of year old lifeforms were incredibly advanced...unfathomably advanced, they were not worthy of the prayer and worship initially attributed to the diety of the bible legend they created...and would you drop your religion over it, or be even more strengthened in it.

God did not create the universe.

God is the universe.

You are all god.

Originally posted by Sinder
God did not create the universe.

God is the universe.

You are all god.

Spinoza is that you???

god doesnt play around with you're mind like you stated, you have free will... it is known that satan and his army of demons are the ones who play with you're mind.

and all the Abrahamic religions believe that god is the creator, if god is not the creator then hes not god!

reply to post by Before2017Victor


If God didn't create the Universe then that wouldn't be God. God is defined as an all powerful being, "the highest power". It's like if you ask what made God, the only thing capable of making God is God. He is the mightiest being. Therefore your question is flawed, because God is the highest power, and the creator.
I'm talking about the Abrahamic God anyway. But i personally believe that Christians are brainwashed with nonsense really, but that's just my opinion.
I'm more of a fan of Sinder's idea.

Namaste.

[edit on 21/2/2010 by JacobNH]

Ah, the concept of God. As you who read me know, I am a reader, long before the internet came along. I was raised in a strict Christian environment, but even as a child of 14, I had thoughts and such that told me something was wrong with what was being shoved down my throat. I began to have questions, which it really surprises me that everyone doesn't... but even at this young age I knew in my heart that if God was as I was being told like "he" was, then the Devil simply could not exist as I was being taught.

If one delves deeply into history, one will find many Gods in there. Goddesses too, and they are even in the bible, in those parts Christians skip over or something, if you don't believe me, ask one who Sophia was? And ask who Solomon was writing all those sexy poems to?

As for an ultimate creator(s) I have a few ideas. I think of the GodHead, as I call it, as a force of energy that mankind has no understanding of. This force has a vast intelligence, and is a creative force, so, wherever it happens to be, it automatically creates life in abundance. To even try to personify this force is to only control those who refuse to think for themselves, go to church every Sunday, (Day of the Sun, Christianity based on Egyptian Sun worship see how it fits?) put your 10% of your wages, what little of them are left, and you are guaranteed a seat in Heaven, although if you use the dimensions given in the bible, and do the math, it was full many years ago, provided all those Christians who died were really Christians. And, don't forget there is a Devil out there who has enough power to take on God in a war.....

I always go off on a tangent here, for some ungodly reason. So I will check out here. Hope my two cents made some sense to a few of you.

Well, scientifically speaking, wasn't there a conference a few months ago that had some mathematicians/physicists saying that because electrons pop in and out of the universe seemingly at random, the universe exhibits the characteristics of being "self-aware"?

I have always thought of the Universe itself being "God" and it amuses me to think that science thinks it may be sapient. I don't really care if we were personally created by an uber-powerful being or if we were given "souls". We're here, the Universe appears to be alive, and reality is stranger than we can imagine.

Besides, I like Sinder's post too. "Thou art God"...I grok, brother.

[edit on 21-2-2010 by Vonotar]

reply to post by Before2017Victor

To me without that 'creator' label you're only left with a creeper
in space who stares at humans and plays with their minds.

More to the point, even if some "invisible personality in the sky" as you call it did create humanity, how does that change anything? If you, as a human, "create" a child, does that entitle you to do anything with it you please? If you create a child, is that child obligated to "love" you?

I think this idea that just because something created us, we must worship and subjugate ourselves to it is abhorrent.

Let me say that I did mess up what I was saying before.
I seem to have failed.

Like when I said "play around with your mind" I meant it as in...well imagine an idea of a super being above you and aparently they're all powerful and loving yet at the same time it's hard for us to explain how this being allows their to be pain.
It's difficult to explain negative things with "God".
"Why space Daddy? Why?"
I think that's what I was driving at, but I messed up asking a simple question.

Anyway, what I gather so far from this thread anyway is that "God" is more or less just a synonym for universe, and in a materialistic way I can then understand how we're all "God".

I am too tired for this right now.

I guess at first I thought it was interesting when people seem to love their "God" so much, but only if he can also serve as an explaination for everything. But they don't love him-they love the idea of him. You know what I mean? Or did I mess that up as well?

[edit on 22-2-2010 by Before2017Victor]

Originally posted by Sinder
God did not create the universe.

God is the universe.

You are all god.

We are not Gods but a part of Gods infinite energy. Every thing that exist is a part of Gods energy.

If you think about it. We are made up by a specific combination of energy. This specific combination of energy gives us a specific intelligence. Just imagine what infinite intelligence the combination of infinite energy would have compare to ours.

reply to post by Before2017Victor


it is all about what existance is perceived as intelligent design, so the sense of superiority trickles a lot of awareness to mean being superior by acting as positive existing fact

instead of meaning being positive existing fact by acting to confirm superiority of existance

God makes creatures evolve. The question is will God allow the complete replacement of the Homo Sapiens humans or will he allow them to be wiped out, and replaced by Human Alien hybrids???????

simple people that never move through the illusion of superiority are the superiors by being true without being really conscious of,

that is why they move always positively even when there is nothing positive around, they just mean always doing their best and insist on keeping that spirit all around

it prooves how when there is nothing truth existance is, when the mind is not claiming being existing itself as a will or pretense, it can be nothing but also it can be positive true geniunly as moving intuitively in enjoying dealing with reality all positively and repeating it that spirit more particularly when it concerns a reality living as a whole that inspire being already positive to sense through the living free awareness by meaning to confirm it and generalize it more

a lot of people think that simple ones are acting nice because they fear superior ones and they mean to escape their powers on them, and that is why they are always surprised and shocked by massive insisting acts of revolts from nice people they once talked to
and they never learn because they live through the illusions of superiority and cannot exist otherwise to their minds, illusions of superiority that say how they represent the exclusive sources of life to any appearance of weak breath that doesnt look free as alone

well no, nice people are superiors because geniunly true, their freedom is within their moves that are very active in constant positive energy productions meaning it always and absolutely