ATS Troll or Enemy of Ignorance?

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/63382f541d64.gif[/atsimg]

How many times have you witnessed an educated poster spending time and energy to smarten up some “ignorant” ATS user, only to be repaid with slanderous titles such as disinfo-agent, cointel or troll?

I’ve watched hundreds of intelligent responses debunking the most asinine of hoaxes only to see the “smarter poster” attacked for nothing more then “being right”.

So many people here seem to think skeptics are evil creatures who should be run out of a thread before they “derail it” by ripping it apart for the piece of crap it really is.

And many other "scammer types" seem to hate them for reasons being "skeptics end hoaxes".

I do not understand why so many people boo the debunker/skeptic.

Skeptics KEEP this website ALIVE!!!

Read that and understand that now.

Without them this entire site would be taken over by ridiculous scammers looking to recruit followers who believe they are the Great Messiah Alien sent to sell you their self-published book of badly edited incoherent space-babble.

Without them, every video of a plane flying overhead, every bug flying past a camera and every filmed bird would be a verified alien craft.

Without them we would all be shooting people in the streets because the NWO IS HERE and they are here NOW!!!

Skeptics are often the ONLY thing worth reading on ATS at ALL! The rest are usually frivolous dreamers looking for the next “new-cool-way” to pretend to be, or just plain gullible people who will fall for anything placed in front of them to read.

A debunker/skeptic is not a troll because he disagrees with your flavor of “dumb”.

A debunker/skeptic is not a disinfo-agent because his truth hurts your fragile misconceptions on reality or your delusional belief system.

A debunker/skeptic is not cointel because you failed to do any real investigation into all those FEMA coffins that Alex Jones made you crap your pants over last year.


In fact, a debunker/skeptic is your hero and savior, a fighter for truth and logic, an enemy of ignorance. Unlike all those liars selling you an unhealthy load of BS, a debunker/skeptic is out there trying to bring “rational and real” explanations to the world so we can all understand it better.

Do not blame the skeptic for sounding snotty when he explains for the millionth time that your favorite guru got busted for lying years ago. He has every right to grow tired of people too dumb or lazy to find that information for themselves.

Do not slander the skeptic for laughing at your newest-new-world-fear. It is only with terrible patience and deliberate humor that some skeptics can even stomach “knowing” that there are people “gullible enough” to believe MOST of the junk on this site.

Instead of booing the debunker, you should feel privileged someone cares enough to show you just how silly you are being in the first place.

You should thank your lucky stars that the debunker/skeptic didn’t waste his/her entire life ending up a babbling fool unable to tell the difference between a hoax and hard fact.

You should sing praise of the skeptic and honor him for teaching you something you didn’t teach yourself.

In fact, skeptics should be given medals for the work they do.

And if you are one of the people who hate the skeptics and wish they would stop visiting your threads…just remember-

No thread is off limits to the rational dissection of a working debunker.

No ATS forum is forbidden to the likes of the truth seeking skeptic.

No hoax, scam or fantasy of the mentally ill is safe from the working enemies of ignorance, and nothing stands to defend “falsehood” from “fact”.

You want to call us trolls for pooping on your parade? Fine, do so all you please but know one thing-

All parades made of crap will get their final pooping on.

I salute each and every single one of you skeptics out there working to accost the flood of nonsense on this site.

And I have the utmost respect for every single debunker saving/serving ATS every day.


I wouldn’t use this site if it wasn’t for you rational guys and girls kicking ass in the name of truth and skepticism.

So to all posting skeptics and debunkers-

Thank you!

Debunk on, and always continue being an Enemy of Ignorance.



[edit on 19-2-2010 by Mr Mask]

LOL Mr Mask!

This is a very funny thread. I also love your image in the Op. I nearly keeled over when it loaded. Pure comedy gold!

The heart of your commentary is true - but like light and darkness, ATS is the success that it is largely due to the believer vs skeptic rivalry. I guess in some ways, we define each other... as much as we hate to admit it.

A skeptic wouldn't be a skeptic if it weren't for the goofy threads and snake oil salesmen... and a fool wouldn't be a fool if it weren't for the keen observations of the skeptic.

What a tangled web we weave....

S&F4U!

IRM

[edit on 19/2/10 by InfaRedMan]

The problem with the debunker/skeptic versus the believer may come down to the ability to use words well.

A well written piece with little evidence can shoot holes in a poorly written and nearly factual account with little or no one willing to raise their head in defence for the fear of being the next in line for the authors cross hairs.

another problem I see is it is easy for someone to become a disinfo agent so to speak

Initially they agree with most things written, sometimes starting their own threads to which they gain a following.
before long they throw little comments in here and there which agree with the majority, soon the worm turns and you start to see comments like, I am just waiting to hear what ******** has to say.

as much as I agree that we need skeptics, we also have to be aware of making a skeptic a forum super hero.

wow, thats an awesomely funny pic dude!

i esspecialy like the reptile david icke ! hahahaha

its good that people argue stuff, well, discuss, after all thats what forums are for.

the only problem are the people, who are skeptics towards anything they dont like and who really dont know what their talking about. Their are a few issues that attract massive groups of these kinds of posters.

[edit on 19-2-2010 by boaby_phet]

I am a skeptic. Well, I aim for it.

I used to be skeptical of UFOs and stuff, but once I actually saw a real Flying Saucer fly over my house something changed inside of me.

Being that I had witnessed proof that something odd was going on in real life around me, I must point out that my Skepticism did not dissolve.

I just refocused my skepticism into a new direction.

Now I direct my skepticism towards .Gov and all that junk.

Also I enjoy applying my skepticism towards our usual UFO pics here on ATS. Granted 99% of them are mis-identifications or photo artifacts of some sort. Or outright hoaxes.

Just gotta apply some common sense. Just because I saw a real Flying Saucer did not erase my skepticism. It only evolved it into a more accurate version of previous skeptical intent.

Skepticism is the ONLY way you will uncover crimes, by questioning the suspects and investigating. It is the only way you will find the truth, by questioning everything and seeking real life legit answers for yourself.

Do not take my word for it, because evidence is very important to establish a fact. I know it is a fact that Flying Saucers exist and fly around our cities quite often. But if you have not seen it yourself, you do not know.

You can believe or disbelieve, but this is folly. It is better to be curious and seek facts first.

The facts exist and are all around us. It is just up to us to be smart enough to see it. (And in my case LUCKY).

Sometimes things are not so clear cut, yet remain highly compelling, so just keep digging till you find something.

By asking QUESTIONS and pointing out facts, one can create a scale to determine the validity of the "Reports".

When things add up , keep digging for the gem.
When things do NOT add up, you know it's incorrect. (Or we are lacking relevant data that would explain such anomalies).

Somethings are obvious, others are not.

This is why skepticism is extremely important and should be applied when doing any type of research or investigation.

ATS would NOT exist without skepticism.

I am skeptical of both random ATS posts, AND the gov't official lies.

I am a "I have to see it to know its real" type person.

I'm copying that image....bloody ace!

I was accused of being an ex-NASA disinfo agent within weeks of posting. His avatar sports a sword and a beard and began with Z Since then debunker/skeptic/disinfo/cointelpro. I had u2us asking if I was an agent. It's all died down now and I'm just another guy on the boards...admittedly a guy fighting foolishness with links that people never use and logic they can't understand! My friend list is a good cross-section of believers and skeptics...few more skeptics of course. They're all great members and ATS needs believers and skeptics. Skeptics just shout louder to be heard...

I've noticed a few troll skeptics blaze a trail through ATS. They post a lot and vanish. Their posts are often angry, hostile and belittling. I prefer to be a polite and friendly skeptic (Internos and Armap?), but I'm human and behave like an a## sometimes.

Originally posted by Mr Mask


Skeptics are often the ONLY thing worth reading on ATS at ALL!


[edit on 19-2-2010 by Mr Mask]

Really? I feel bad for you. If you come here daily just to read the 'rational word' then I could give you some better suggestions if you want to avoid all the nonsense and lunacy that gets posted here on a day to day basis.

P.S: I'm not trolling... I can seriously give you some good websites.

EDIT: Laughing my head off at Icke and Wilhoax in the OP's image, thumbs up.



[edit on 19/2/2010 by serbsta]

The difference between a skeptic and a troll is in the delivery.

Praise the civil-tongued skeptic, for without him (or her) ignorance grows in the petrie dish of angry retorts.

edited for 'inclusiveness'

[edit on 19/2/10 by masqua]

reply to post by munkey66

Initially they agree with most things written, sometimes starting their own threads to which they gain a following. before long they throw little comments in here and there which agree with the majority, soon the worm turns and you start to see comments like, I am just waiting to hear what ******** has to say. as much as I agree that we need skeptics, we also have to be aware of making a skeptic a forum super hero.

That can only be Phage...you can say his name out loud

His hit-rate and accuracy is so high some guys are scared to voice an opinion until he's spoken. More fool them. Another, more logical reason is that his subject knowledge area is more insightful than many others...he sticks to what he knows. Therefore, it's reasonable to wait for his opinion.

I'm not suggesting you are, but I've seen a few jealous snipes from time to time. The amount of people that have added him as a friend possibly makes some members feel left out or over-looked. He's killed a few threads and some guys take that personally. He's killed one of mine and I'm on his friend list! We can only guess at why some guys resent what basically amounts to a guy posting facts with supporting links. He knows his stuff...how can that be perceived as a negative?

This is a conspiracy website- people are entitled to believe what they want and others are free to debunk, its just the way that the debunking is done sometimes that really annoys me.

Someone posts something in for instance Science and Technology about Acoustic levitation and Phage weighs in confidently and patronisingly quoting the standard, status quo version of physics telling them they are wrong.

But of course it wasn't that long ago that quantum physics was regarded as paranormal/pseudo science and its followers ridiculed. Now we know different, although it has yet to be reconciled with Newtownian physics-but who knows, I suspect maybe both those paradigms will be replaced with a newer far more stranger one in the future?

Quantum computers, nano machines and even mobile phones would not have been possible if scientists had not ignored the mocking Know it alls who said-"thats ridiculous, doesn't fit in with physics-can't be done!"

So yes, I do find it odd that intelligent people with scientific backgrounds are so quick to firmly debunk that which doesn't fit in to their world view?They do not know it all-they just think they do!

For the record, I'm not having a go at Phage, he has some brilliant posts, just using him as an example.

[edit on 19-2-2010 by the way]

The real problem with A.T.S. is people like you.

You insist on debunking credible sources such as David Icke, Goodchild and Wilcox.

It has become clear that you, Mr Mask, if that is even your real name, are nothing short of a disinfo agent intent on bringing down the Galactic Federation of Light because you are evil and wrong and hate our idea of love and freedom and democracy and reasonable compulsory donations.

O.K., back to the real world......

I could not agree with you more. Sceptics (true sceptics that is) are the only sane voice on this insane site. They are a MUST to keep this place in check. No need to continue, my sentiments have been expressed in previous replies.

Originally posted by the way
Quantum computers, nano machines and even mobile phones would not have been possible if scientists had not ignored the mocking Know it alls who said-"thats ridiculous, doesn't fit in with physics-can't be done!"

Quantum computers do not exist yet!

Nano 'machines' are still rudimentary at this point. They don't do much.

Can you tell me how mobile phones defy physics?

IRM

reply to post by the way

Someone posts something in for instance Science and Technology about Acoustic levitation.

What was the context for the acoustic levitation? A few weeks ago Ancient & Lost Civs area had a few posts about acoustic levitation being the method of constructing the pyramids. Naturally, I weighed in with some orthodox, status quo evidence to indicate otherwise. I was polite, but it's a crazy idea. What's clearly ridiculous to some skeptics (through experience, education, employment, field of expertise etc), isn't as apparent to other members.

LOL, yeah the lizardman Icke is pretty good.

The problem I have with some skeptics is they're rarely skeptical of mainstream propaganda, just alternative news/views. Rather than debate the validity of two competing theories, they claim to be defenders of official truths and debunkers of unpatriotic lies.

IMO, a person who believes al-Qaeda conspiracy theories is just as irrational as someone who thinks lizard men from another dimension posses world leaders. Although I have seen some videos that make me wonder about turtles from alternate realities:






[edit on 19-2-2010 by Crito]

reply to post by InfaRedMan


No quantum computers do not exsit yet, but the theory is there and lots of R+D and money is being plowed into their development.

Nano machines may be rudimentary, but they do exist and will get better as our knowledge progresses.

I always thought that cell phones used quantum algorithms as something to do with the way they are transmitted? I could well be wrong, I don't claim to be an expert!

But quantum algorithms/technology are being used in the mobile phone industry for- pressure sensitive interfaces, increasing processing power, antennae technology as well as miniturisation.

Quantum technology is very real although in its infancy.

I think my point still stands-we don't know everything about any given field, yet there are those who will choose to mock what does not fit in with what little we do know.

reply to post by Kandinsky


Well if you read the thread, you will see its a pretty good example.

Two people with good understanding of acoustic physics having a knowledge war.

One (Phage) saying no can't be done you're wrong the other attempting to debate that it can.

I have to admit, I look and see who has posted to what, because its like a train wreck - you have to stop and look. I watch to see what sets off what response, and I have to say, some on here make jumps in logic that not even Evel Kneivel could make.

Or maybe something the younger generation would understand

"If ignorance gets to $40 a barrel, I claim drilling rights to his head..."


Casing

reply to post by Mr Mask


I hope this post get's OVER 9000 stars. I've seen the same thing going on and it bothers me that people don't speak the truth more often. Without skepticism we'd still be believing in a flat earth that sits at the center of everything being used as an invisible sky-man's foot stool

Also I noticed some of these people are hypocrites, they will question whatever they are told but when they post something absurd on a thread and are questioned they act like whoever doubts them works for TPTB.

Thanks for this thread, great picture too.

www.911blogger.com...

Characteristics of a pseudoskeptic:

1. The tendency to deny, rather than doubt.
2. Double standards in the application of criticism.
3. The making of judgments without full inquiry.
4. Tendency to discredit, rather than investigate.
5. Use of ridicule or ad hominem attacks in lieu of arguments.
6. Pejorative labeling of proponents as 'promoters', 'pseudoscientists' or practitioners of 'pathological science.
7. Presenting insufficient evidence or proof.
8. Assuming criticism requires no burden of proof.
9. Making unsubstantiated counter-claims.
10. Counter-claims based on plausibility rather than empirical evidence.
11. Suggesting that unconvincing evidence is grounds for dismissing it.
12. Use of vague, exaggerated or untestable claims.
13. Asserting that claims which have not been proven false must be true, and vice versa (Argument from ignorance).
14. They speak down to their audience using 'arguments from authority'.
15. They put forward their assumptions as if they were universal truths.
16. No references to reputable journal material.
17. If the pseudo-skeptic has a monetary interest (such as maintaining a funding stream or a salary) his criticisms often become vituperative.

True Skeptics / Open-Minded Skeptics

A. Does not show any of the characteristics of a pseudoskeptic.
B. Inquires and asks questions to try to understand things
C. Applies open inquiry and investigation of both sides
D. Is nonjudgmental, doesn't jump to rash conclusions
E. Has honest doubt and questions all beliefs, including their own
F. Seeks the truth, considers it the highest aim
G. Fairly and objectively weighs evidence on all sides
H. Acknowledges valid convincing evidence
I. Possesses solid sharp common sense and reason
J. Is able to adapt and update their paradigms to new evidence

reply to post by Mr Mask



Thank you ! the increase in crap is annoying. Too many sensationalist 'Current Events' that have no bearing on anything. I often wonder at this type of article.


This is what mainstream media does to grab viewers attention and solicit response.

And now we find it here and often.

example....the fight on the bus article and today the baby that got killed by dad

why are these type articles here? How does this shed light on conspiracy,ignorance, or mystery?

Why read it here when it hits the msm already? The site is already bombarded with advertising, ok cool gotta pay the bills. But this? Are we going to start having super threads about the color of Brittany Spears underwear next? Pure sensationalism, pass me the stars and flags.

lastly, I noticed a moderator or something showed up on one of them and instead of moderating, actually participated in the drivel.

Is there a conspiracy to fill this site with useless crap like the rest of the more traditional news sources?

Why?

PG