Companies Not Hiring Nicotine Users

reply to post by whoshotJR


I would like to interject a point. I am all for companies making decisions that will be beneficial. However, this is America. In America you have the right to do as you please on your time off. I can see the argument a hospital could make that would say this particular off time use affects the image of their company even if off work. Other companies should not have that leg to stand on. The danger here is once we allow corporations to create a subversive regulation such as not smoking on your off time, then we allow corporations to change America. Soon Christian business owners will fire you for going to a casino on your time off, or visiting a strip club. Maybe they will start watching you on your time off and say that you stay up too late and that is not responsible behavior for their employees. Soon companies will get rid of you for having firearms registered in your name. Soon companies will discriminate against any reason they deem fit and this will create a set of standards where it will be impossible to find true discrimination at a job.

In my opinion there needs to be a legitimate and impacting business reason to prohibit off duty activity. Otherwise we end up being regulated in our conduct by corporations at the same time we tell government to stop regulating business and the peoples activity.

Originally posted by hotbakedtater
I started a thread about this happening in Parma, OH.

In my thread, I linked to a case a smoker brought testing this policy elsewhere.

He lost.

Good bye rights.

Rights? Smoking is a privilege, not a right. It's a choice you make, not a part of who you are.

I agree with the companies on this one. I say a company has every right to deny employment on the basis of smoking, drinking, drug use, etc. Heck, if they wanted to deny employment over drinking too much soda that would be well within their right to do so!

reply to post by sos37


I think your point is well taken. I see it from both sides. Here is a question for you though. Do you want to live in a world where the government says you are free and corporations limit your options? A world that you bow down to the person who pays you and comply with their every wish and desire? Or a world in which you are free to make both good and bad decisions and have a government that upholds your free will to chose.

Setting up a business is not a right, as it's authority to do so is granted by the state which is representative of the people. Working to put food on the table is a right it should be up to the people to decide if they want businesses to be able to discriminate. Really though it's a choice. My only goal here is to point out that our system is not working as it was intended.

This whole antismoking thing is getting out of control. Someone needs to inform those persicuting smokers that NO ONE GETS OUT OF THIS WORLD ALIVE smoker or not.

My grandfather never smoked and he got colan cancer. My grandmother ended up with breast cancer and she never smoked. Both lead healthy lifestyles. They exercised every day and ate they're vitamins.

reply to post by TiredofControlFreaks


two thumbs up man.



My grandfather worked in to his late 90s smoked 2 packs a day and never took a sick day till the day he got sick with toumor on his stomach. My husband (that smokes) has never taken a sick day and is in better health than I am. Smoking has nothing to do with the workplace and should not have anything to do with tring to get a job.

[edit on 17-2-2010 by ladyintheshadows]

Originally posted by ladyintheshadows
reply to post by TiredofControlFreaks

 

two thumbs up man.

My grandfather worked in to his late 90s smoked 2 packs a day and never took a sick day till the day he got sick with toumor on his stomach. My husband (that smokes) has never taken a sick day and is in better health than I am. Smoking has nothing to do with the workplace and should not have anything to do with tring to get a job.

[edit on 17-2-2010 by ladyintheshadows]

Your husband is not the norm though. Smokers do get sick more often I have seen it first hand. It probably has something to do with infections being easier to get in the lungs but I don't really know.

As for your grandpa, I would bet that what he smoked early on is nothing compared to what people are smoking today.

What happens when a person doesn't smoke but chews on nicotine gums all day long to satisfy the cravings. Will they not be able to fine work because they chew nicotine??.

reply to post by recycled


This is unconstitutional discrimination in the workplace based on what someone believes, or given statistics dictating what MAY happen to a particular law abiding (though smoking) employee in the future.

Everyone knows certain ethnic groups are more likely to have a specific set of health risks than say another ethnic group.

The next step will be to bar people from work because of their ethnicity and those associated health risks.

Who can I sue? Anyone who was in line and lost one of these jobs should make a bee line to an atty and hop on a class action lawsuit because it WILL follow and they WILL win.

reply to post by whoshotJR


I still have a lot of buddies in the military. They all smoke!

Well sit I cant say to much without crossing a line.

So sir you would fire all the smokers in the military?

What company do you work for. I want to be there when they go broke or get bailed out so I can laugh.


Its the first sign of weakness in a company. Its seems to pervade the whole company. A culture that believes itself to be superior to someone due to held beliefs.

When you come into work you are there to do a job. Not represent beliefs or enforce views on others. You do your job to the best of your ability. I dont care if your racist, a prior offender, tax cheat, adulterer, slut, man ho, pagan, jew, christian, dork,or cold blooded murder. I only care that your job performance is high and you keep all personal issues out of the office.

BTW, my new company that is in the works will have a large work base of those that just got released.

Beware the lesson it seems every christian forgets judge not least ye be judge.

I judge so I make sure I qualify under the same rules I use on others.

If I refused to hire anyone based on anything it has come down to I didnt like them. Pure and simple.

Oh i did hire one guy i detested and told him its why I hired him. I told him I would stand over his shoulder and watch him like a hawk. He still works there after I sold the company last year.

May your karma run over your dogma

reply to post by ripcontrol


Good on you RIPControl. I sue employers it seems like every other year. Your philosophy of controlling your initial reactions to your emotions will save you in the long run. There is nothing wrong with simply giving someone plenty of slack to hang themselves, and warning them the entire time that the noose is getting tighter around their neck.

Originally posted by ripcontrol
reply to post by whoshotJR

 

I still have a lot of buddies in the military. They all smoke!

Well sit I cant say to much without crossing a line.

So sir you would fire all the smokers in the military?

What company do you work for. I want to be there when they go broke or get bailed out so I can laugh.


Its the first sign of weakness in a company. Its seems to pervade the whole company. A culture that believes itself to be superior to someone due to held beliefs.

When you come into work you are there to do a job. Not represent beliefs or enforce views on others. You do your job to the best of your ability. I dont care if your racist, a prior offender, tax cheat, adulterer, slut, man ho, pagan, jew, christian, dork,or cold blooded murder. I only care that your job performance is high and you keep all personal issues out of the office.

BTW, my new company that is in the works will have a large work base of those that just got released.

Beware the lesson it seems every christian forgets judge not least ye be judge.

I judge so I make sure I qualify under the same rules I use on others.

If I refused to hire anyone based on anything it has come down to I didnt like them. Pure and simple.

Oh i did hire one guy i detested and told him its why I hired him. I told him I would stand over his shoulder and watch him like a hawk. He still works there after I sold the company last year.

May your karma run over your dogma

Military is far different the a public facing company job. Bless those guys, they can do what ever they need to get through the day.

The company I work for doesnt discriminate against people that smoke, I personally have never not hired somebody because they smoke. I said I wish I could and that I hate hiring smokers. I have been very lucky and almost nobody that works for me smokes, just 1 guy chews.

If you would hire "racist, a prior offender, tax cheat,or cold blooded murder."
Then good luck to you. I would hate to be the guy that gave the Ok to hire somebody who does any of those things and then does it to your company or its customers.

You didn't address my points on why I don't like to hire smokers. They call in sick more, stick and usually are more negative people. Smokers are more likely to take more frequent breaks and to take longer breaks.

Wouldn't you rather hire people that are just as skilled and avoid those things if you could?

My best friend smokes as do my mom and dad and many others I know. I have seen its grip on people and its far worse then any drug I have seen. Don't try and turn this into me thinking I'm better then x person because they smoke. Its not about the person its about their production or the negative face it can put on the company. I think its far more un-American that we are faced with hiring diversity in the work place instead of the best candidate and smokers would be included in that diversity.

Another thing that I don't agree with is using your credit score to get a job. Some people have a low credit score because they cant find work. How are they supposed to get ahead?

reply to post by whoshotJR


www.youtube.com...

Please read what I said a little more closely.

They are measured on job performance

I am and will always be an EOA- equal opportunity @$$whole

A preacher I know told me of another preacher who ran into a problem

he tried to find jobs for the excons who came into his church. no one would hire them

he arranged through various means to send some to Le Cordon Bleu Training. They all passed.

They went to find jobs. Guess what some little ... wouldnt hire them. They had a past.

The preacher got mad himself and started his own catering company

As you know the market hit a slight down turn. Well these exec's tried to come hire the excons away.

well you can guess there response

next they came back to the preacher and tried to tell him now they would be interested in his program

He told them na, he would just expand his operations since their were failing.

The moral of this story.

You are biased and costing your company money.

I can easily tell. You seem to froget what the basis of your hiring decisions are. The little piece of paper with the degree means to hr that you took the time and stay on track and finished.

With this in mind, its called detail son, I look for that quality not the paper.

As for your cheap shot, no they must meet performance variables some of which include customer service, ect.

Most of management is hired out of school with little or no experience in your companies operations.

My measuring stick is more accurate then yours and always will be. How do I know? Ive used it sucessfully to not only compete with people such as yourself but to also rebuild lives. I can only pray what I am saying is getting through.

You admitted that you would discriminate against smokers if you could. You feel lucky that only one dips.

Once again what is the name of your compaany. I would be interested in buying it. It appears to be underutilizing resources on the personel side in its present market.

Your excuses are management not leadership.

I recommend some more reading to improve yourself. To maximise your ability to perform your job.

www.amazon.com...=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1266554732&sr=1-2

any by him
www.amazon.com...=nb_sb_ss_i_1_14?url=search-alias%3Dstripbooks&field-keywords=john+c+maxwell+leadership&sprefix=john+c+maxwell

www.amazon.com...=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1266554769&sr=1-1

www.amazon.com...

and i believe it is this one
www.amazon.com...=pd_sim_b_2

they have formed part of the basis of what Ive learned the hard way. (called honest for some reason)

I highly recommend them all to you. I would not want you to be downsized due to you coasting.

BTW, if cant figure out I am a smoker

The military thing aplies to life as well. So you would hata hiring a smoker (you would discriminate if you could, your words not mine). So if a vet smoked you would not hire him if you could get away with it because he is a smoker. It was okay when he served and protected but not now.

Either way I am going to go enjoy my freedom that you hate. I make sure to blow some your way...

reply to post by whoshotJR


I think smokers are the most creative and forward thinking people. I'm surprised that you state they are negative. What I have found is that smokers can tell you all the bull# in your company and aren't afraid to do it providing they know you aren't going to fire them. Go have a smoke with them in the break area. Ask them where your company could improve. 9 out of 10 work smoke situations are actually mini meetings where the smokers get together and talk about how to better improve your company. You should really listen to them...they will give you great insight into the inner workings of your company. Of course, what they have to say may offend you and you will call them negative.

reply to post by ripcontrol


The truth of it is all us smokes need to come together and be together on issue. If we don't stand up for our own rights no one else will. Maybe we should all be part of a smokers guild or we all work for one company but above all else be together it is our right to smoke and our duty as Americans to pay our taxes and support our country which entitles us.to our freedoms and our rights we all know in the end we will have our day and we will put an end to this injustice but until then, eat, drink, smoke and be merry.

reply to post by ladyintheshadows


It is a case for a good civil liberties lawyer. I know someone previously said their case lost in court but I think that case must have had the worst attorney ever. This is a clear cut violation of employment non-discrimination laws. If smoking were illegal it would be different of course but you are engaging in a perfectly legal pursuit on your off hours. Maybe we should begin a boycott of these companies because of the discrimination they show toward talented, (some have taken out school loans that need to be repaid) honest hard working Americans.
Everyone, smoker or not should be bothered by this because the next step will be drinkers, fast drivers, motorcycle riders, people who have unprotected sex, the next step will be you...not able to get a job, because of something you do.

Slaving your life away for a corporation is a privilege. If you don't like the rules move into the woods. Since I don't drink booze or smoke I'm all for people who do being denied employment. Fat people shouldn't be given unemployment benefits or welfare checks either. We have too many lazy people in this country who want to sit around drinking beer, smoking cigarettes and eating cheeseburgers on my dime. Let them freeze and starve to death I say.

Some people don't appreciate liberty until theirs is taken away. You should have stood up for the other guy's rights because now he won't stand up for yours.

reply to post by ripcontrol


I wont list who I work for but considering our 4th quarter earnings were over 900 million I'm betting you wont be buying it anytime soon anyway.

You are the perfect example of a smoker who probably says to yourself that you are in charge and can quit any time also. If you can't see the negatives of a smoker vs non smoker with all skills being equal then its pointless to debate you.

How about this. If you have 2 people that are exactly equal and you are going to hire one of them but 1 of them stinks horribly and has disgusting yellow teeth. This is a position that is customer facing, who do you hire?

Originally posted by Brothers
What happens when a person doesn't smoke but chews on nicotine gums all day long to satisfy the cravings. Will they not be able to fine work because they chew nicotine??.

They cannot prove a person is a smoker by using the nicoteen test. They just use it into scaring people into confessing. Second hand smoke would make a test positive. It is a big sham.

Who would you rather have patrolling the perimeter in a war zone: a coke head who paces back and forth quickly and is sensitive to every little noise, or a beer guzzling alcohol addict who leans up against his rifle because he's about to pass-out cold? Which one costs businesses more in lost productivity? Yet it's the drug user who will be dishonorably discharged and fired, not the drunk. It's about obedience, nothing more. That's why fat and lazy people aren't discriminated against for "customer-facing positions" even though a skinny person would make a much better impression.

And I don't do coke either by the way, sorry. But if I ever wanted to it really shouldn't be any of your !@#$in' business.