Ahmadinejad warns powers will 'regret' if Iran sanctioned

reply to post by triplescorpio

i ll ask again gas was cheaper and we are there to control it right have you checked how much oil has gone up the fact that we still pay rich arab princes to import their product wich they have limited and the simple fact that that arguement died for most americans when we paid four dollars a gallon this summer for this oil that we supposedly inavded iraq for you ll have to provide a better answer then to profit cause all its done is cause debt or is that the new conspiracy geeez

If you had ever read Marine Core Major General’s Smedgley Darlington Butler’s ‘War is a Racket’ speech in the 1930’s you would know that for over a century the U.S. Military has been invading and securing nations and areas around the world for U.S. Corporations and those area’s resources. Vietnam was for tin. Afghanistan has copper and opium. Iraq has oil.

The U.S. Government and Military don’t undertake those missions on the behalf of American corporations to make those commodities more affordable to the American citizens.

They undertake them to make U.S. Corporations even more profitable. The fact that oil has gone up and become more profitable only makes it all the more desirable and worthwhile for the Corporations to secure it and to use their vast influence and control of government to secure it for them.

In addition oil is a strategic commodity and the most important strategic commodity. Industrialized nations need it to run their infrastructure, and mechanized armies need it to run their machines of war.

China for instance which is relatively affluent from a wealth standpoint is very disadvantaged from an oil standpoint. They control almost no oil sources at the source and are hostage to Western Corporations and Governments that do. Why do you think Communist China loans Capitalist America so much money? Out of the kindness of their Communist hearts?

The U.S. for instance is monetarily broke and decreasingly less affluent but we control the bulk of the world’s oil supplies at the source. They are in fact secured in most cases by the U.S. military so should a nation like China or Russia wish to take them over they in fact have a serious fight on their hands, a fight thousands of miles from their domestic shores without an oil supply sufficient to keep their armies in the field and having to fight against us while we enjoy the position of strength of well entrenched bases and supply lines.

If you want to understand the politics of the planet it first helps to understands the logistics of the planet, the logistics of business, and running infrastructures and military machines and how oil is required for all of them.

Thanks.

P.S. Iran has oil. It is an independent non-controlled source of oil. There are dozens of dictatorships that violate human rights in far greater excess than Iran why do you think they aren't in the news and Iran is?

Iran has oil. Technically it's American oil, America means to take that oil. American Corporations mean to take that oil, and American Corporations run and control the American government and have for well over a hundred years and not the citizens. The citizens are just lied to and tricked to in the name of patriotism to shedding their blood and tax dollars to provide the Corporations what they want. Look around the Corporations don't share their wealth or reinvest it in America they horde it and use it as leverage for power and control.



[edit on 17/2/10 by ProtoplasmicTraveler]

Originally posted by princeofpeace
This thread-like many others on ATS, has deviated WAY past the original topic. Moderators please bring everyone back in line to discuss the premise of the thread and take the personal bickering and viewpoints elsewhere. Its senseless arguing and none of you can be proven right or wrong when you all "think" your viewpoint is the correct one.

You were saying?

No it doesnt. Still more blah, blah, blah. From their herbal AIDS cure, to August 22nd, til this big announcement last week, NOTHING but fluff ever comes out of their mouths. They can only cry wolf so many times and now they just look like idiots.

That was your original contribution to the thread. In fact it didn't even deal with the topic of the thread nor does your most recent attempt to implore ATS to provide you with a posting environment that makes your own off topic opinions seem more relevant.

The fact of the matter is that Iran is a hot issue because of all the opinions involved and the absence of a lot of pertinent facts for the shaping of a propganda war against the Iranian regime.

Each miss quoted out of context news item, distortion and omission does become relevant to those looking to promote that propaganda war (you) and those looking to defeat that propaganda war (me).

Evidently it's a war that's not going to well for some huh?

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler


Iran has oil. It is an independent non-controlled source of oil. There are dozens of dictatorships that violate human rights in far greater excess than Iran why do you think they aren't in the news and Iran is?

the bomb !
and i still dontthink you get that the US corporations have no control over iraqi oil it is owned by generations of hording arab aristocracy. I too thougth we were there for the oil but it never happened we got debt and war no oil no control? sooo?

[edit on 17-2-2010 by triplescorpio]

reply to post by triplescorpio


And you my friend don't get that when and where generations of Arab elites and royals own oil they have always been in bed and derived their wealth through partnership with American corporations.

In fact it was American and British corporations that found the oil, drilled the oil, refine the oil, ship the oil to market and create a market for it.

Not only have the Arabs not done that for themselves, not only could they not do it for themselves, they also know who did and are beholden to and controlled very much by who has.

Possession is 9/10ths of the law and we posses Iraq's oil. What shell companies are created to route the proceeds of it through to create the appearance of us not controlling it are just that, shell companies created for the purpose of decieving people.

We are agressively fighting for control of all Middle East oil sources and thinly veiling it to the American people as a religious crusade.

The Arab Royals you speak of like in Kuwait and Saudi Arabia have in fact been under U.S. Military occupation since the First Gulf War.

News flash, no amount of money stops a bullet, well unless you pile up stacks and stacks of it as a fort.

What the system appears to be for the sake of appearances on the surface and what it is are two entirely different things.

The reality is your tax dollars and potentially your life are being sucked up into the lie.

Is it really worth giving to the corporations? Who in fact are globalists and don't have America's or any nation's best interests at heart?

[edit on 17/2/10 by ProtoplasmicTraveler]

Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
reply to post by Nomad451

 

It seems that no matter what this issue heads for war. If I was a country enriching Uranium for peaceful purposes and had done everything requested by the IAEA and had a giant bully the USA and it's pesty partner Israel threatening war and sanctions I wouldn't sit idly by either.

The real truth is to date Iran has committed no International Crime or carried out any act of aggression at any other nation.

Iran arms, funds and is the boss of Hesbola and Hamas. Each of Iran's terrorist organizations have been operating for along time, before the American war on terror. Iran was also tied up in the eight year war with Iraq so they did not have a chance to attack anyone and they have been rebuilding their army ever since.

The Mahdi army in Iraq also was under full control of Iran.

Iran is far from innocent and has had blood on their hands ever since the Arabs hi-jacked THE PERSIAN NATION.

As demonstrations have shown, most in Iran do not want the Arab psychos threatening anyone anymore.

Russia has already severlly threatend Iran twice, the day they unveiled the Shihab-3 with the improved nose cone ment to carry a nuke and not to much later when they sent one into space.

Israel and the U.S. have every right to be worried about an Iranian nuclear program and they should do everything they can to stop it.

History has shown when a moderate Iranian leader gets into office things cool down. Its time for change in Iran, one way or the other.

reply to post by Sky watcher


And the CIA funded the Contras, the Mujahedeen in Afghanistan and the State of Zionist Israel.

Nations fund armed groups with similar political ideologies or even disparate political ideologies if the group is opposed to someone that the nation fundamentally is.

For instance the Mujahedeen in Afghanistan really is the Taliban. When it served us to fund them and arm them against the Soviets we did even though ideologically the Mujahedeen was the same fundamentalist Islamic organization then as it is now as the Taliban today. We weren’t funding the Mujahedeen because we philosophically, religiously or politically agreed with them; we were funding and equipping them because they were against Russian rule and we were against Russia too.

That’s all part of political state craft and some would argue it did not serve us well to fund or equip the Mujahedeen but all sovereign nations have the ability and some would argue a fundamental right to fund foreign armed groups for various political reasons.

Now here is what we didn’t do with the Mujahedeen just like Iran hasn’t done with Hezbollah or Hamas. We didn’t convince people to join them and we didn’t force them to pull the trigger on their enemies. We simply made it possible for them to do so.

There was an interesting story in Military.com yesterday about a young American Marine who’s family immigrated from the Ukraine to the United States in 1988. His Father had actually fought in Afghanistan in 1982-1984 with the Soviet Army. The son is currently fighting in Afghanistan presently in the American Army.

Amazingly father and son know that they are/were both fighting the same enemy, Islamic religious fundamentalists. The same Islamic religious fundamentalists we wanted to pay to help fight the Soviets are in fact as opposed to us occupying Afghanistan as much as they were opposed to the Soviets occupying Afghanistan.

So how were they heroes fighting the Soviets but villains fighting us, when it’s the same basic fundamentalists with the same principles, tactics and goals?

That’s all politics and politics that don’t really serve us the people as we paid then for the fight, and we pay now for the fight.

Conversely it was France who funded the Revolutionaries during our Revolutionary War not because the French Monarch loved American ideals of democracy but because he hated the Rival English King!

What our forefathers did not want is us taking sides in foreign wars or building or running an empire.
What you are decrying in your post is Iran doing the same exact same thing that we do.

So should we attack ourselves? Yes, I think we should, by a close examination and introspection of what we are doing abroad, for what purpose, to what and whose benefit and what it’s actually costing us.

Thanks.


[edit on 17/2/10 by ProtoplasmicTraveler]

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler


Some really great facts there Proto.

This is what I am getting at. America at this present time are no different than any of the ideological regimes that they desperately want to crush.

CIA funded Al Qeida. The US is in no position to sanction, bomb, attack, invade any country including Iran..

Obama is officially about to place stronger harsher sanction on Iran and for what? Because they didn't accept a nuclear deal that never had Iran's best interests at heart to begin with? Why would they accept it?

The US is selling arms to Gulf states as a "defensive" measure against Iran. For what? They know Iran isn't going to attack anybody and they know Iran isn't building "the bomb".
It's to make money, and to smear the Iranian regime to be a big bad boogy man out to make nukes and destroy the western world. Nonsense.

Same nonsense that brought us the oh so beneficial Iraq and Afghan wars.

Same war mongering propaganda and lies that the public drinks up time and time again so it seems. Like a big fat milkshake of lies wrapped in the American flag *SHLUUUUURP*

Drink it up.

reply to post by Nomad451


Actually the sad truth is that morally America is not in the position to dictate so much to nations like Iran, however militarily we are in the position to dictate to Iran and just about every other nation as well.

The plain truth is we have the world’s most technologically advanced, best trained and seasoned military force and we run it in perpetuity year in and out where it can run most efficiently off the world’s largest supplies of oil that it needs to keep turning and running.

Americans themselves have been indoctrinated into a might makes right mentality and perspective that does actually cause them to imagine that morally we have the high ground simply because we have the military might to win and exert our dominance.

Like religion Americanism is full of circular logic that defies and does not entertain common sense.

Afghanistan is a great example of seeing this faulty logic at play.

The conventional wisdom during the Soviet/Afghani war was that Afghanistan has never been militarily conquered by any empire in its thousands years history and its pointless and self defeating to try.

Yet when it comes to America having a better chance at that seemingly impossible task then well it makes sense to invade and try to occupy them.

Some how thanks to Politicians, Generals and the News Media what previously made no sense all of a sudden makes perfect sense.

When the Islamic Fundamentalists were fighting against the industrialized urbanized communists to preserve their rural agrarian fundamental religious way of life it was perfectly good and reasonable for them to do that, they were considered heroes and worthy of funding and weapons.

When the Islamic Fundamentalists are fighting against industrialized urbanized capitalism in the way of American to preserve their rural agrarian fundamental religious way of life it’s entirely unreasonable and wrong.

They deserve bombed, imprisoned, and persecuted.

It’s the most glaringly and amazingly hypocritical set of dual standards you could actually see yet the propaganda machine for the most part pulls it off and this is how.

Americans are facing huge unemployment, staggering deficits, increased taxation a depressed economy mired in recession and facing potential runaway inflation, corruption in government and they are generally angry and afraid.

Yet rather than channel that individual anger and fear towards solving our own domestic problems the media manipulates it in such a way as to cause the average American to vent that anger and fear on places like Iran where America’s might makes right philosophy actually gives people an illusion of confidence and strength and superiority even while trying to deal with and survive in their own inferior positions.

It’s an amazing misdirection and at every turn the government and the media extols and prods Americans to think and react in emotional terms in self defeating ways that are purposefully aimed at getting them to deflect away from internal domestic problems and to provide them that false sense of pride and superiority in nation as a means to keep them from ever honestly broaching the nation’s domestic problems.

We absolutely have the best propaganda in the world hands down and what makes it even more effective is the fact that so many people actually believe it and reinforce it on behalf of the government and corporations and essentially police ourselves in that fashion from affecting a much needed domestic overhaul of government and foreign policy.

Because of that I won’t entirely hold the American people responsible because the American people are very much immersed in a control cult where their perspectives are fed to them and manipulated.

Nor is America entirely responsible internationally either. The international banks that fund the debt of wars are the driving force behind hostile acquisitions and takeovers in places like Afghanistan and Iraq and Iran. The international petroleum companies especially England’s and America’s benefit the most off of the foreign policy.
The Military Industrial Complex of all the major powers the United States the United Kingdom, France, Russia and China all make staggering profits off of arming the combatants.

Additionally Zionist Israel heavily promotes it all because it believes that numerically its survival depends on waging a constant war of Islamic attrition and keeping Islamic nations divided and hostile to one another so they can never unite to attack Israel.

Finally organized religion further fuels it by playing on religious differences and using conquest as a means to further their own domain and the numbers of people to fill the collection plates.

America’s role in it is shameful, the American people are for the most part brainwashed and asleep at the wheel but if you take a close look at today’s America in reality all we are anymore is an International Army for hire by the International Corporations. We no longer produce or manufacture anything of any significance except military and aerospace technology. We don’t even hide the fact that we have become an entirely militarized nation with the largest security and prison industrial complex on the planet with the largest per capita prison population behind bars.

We actually warehouse entire generations of inner city Americans in prisons because we don’t actually have jobs for them.

The American standard of living has been decreased so that the average America spends 80% of their waking hours just trying to earn and secure food, and sustenance and a roof over their head. Our public educational system additionally only educates people to a functional illiterate standpoint so that they can perform menial tasks efficiently but not solve complex problems or have an detailed logistical and analytical ability to perceive problems.

They are accepting of what they are told because not only are most of them from an educational standpoint ill equipped to analyze complex situations independently or accurately but they are too harried and time challenged slaving for meager wages to put a meal on the table and keep a roof over their head to even investigate the possibilities and realities let alone have the time or the resources to challenge or act on them.

The American people in many ways have become victims of a different sort only instead of having bombs dropped on them they labor for a pittance and are heavily taxed to pay for dropping bombs on others that their government and corporations, media and religious institutions tell them they should be very fearful of and in fact as you can see on these forums they go around trying to tell and convince each other to be fearful of.

It’s a heck of a problem and a heck of a deception that has a lot more to do with a few powerful international global corporations and oligarchs than it does any one specific nation.

People all over the world need to wake up to the reality, educate themselves about it, and do what they can to change it because the reality is that it just keeps going from bad to worse and nothing is improving for any individual or nation anywhere just the corporations who are running and enslaving us all.

Thanks.

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler


Bravo. It is simply impossible to say it any better. I always enjoy reading your posts proto.

reply to post by LegalizeFreedom


Thanks my friend, I write them to share with everyone.

I truly worry about the state the world is in, and what is going to become of us all.

It's not much, but I think the very least any of us can do is speak honestly to what we see, think and feel and believe.

It's what democracy is all about, and there really isn't much sense at exporting it at a barrel of a gun, when the people who are exporting it can't even enjoy it or utilize it as it was meant to be themselves.

We aren't either, and the situation in Iran is a classic example of it, one version of the truth, the Government's version, and it's wrong to question it or disagree with it.

I don't need our government to tell me our way of life is special and desire to prove it so bad by trying to show me how less special everyone else's way of life is.

I need to feel like my way of life here in America is special and the truth is I increasingly feel its tragic. To much government, to much war, to many taxes, to little opportunity, to many laws stacked against the people aimed at enriching the state through fines and penalties and giving it control over every facet of our lives.

That's special alright. Just not the kind of special I am looking for.

Iran should be left to its own devices and we should start focusing on how to salvage whats left of our constitution and way of life and improving it.

How can we save the world when we can't even save ourselves?

How can we make democracy work for other nations when its not working here?

Thanks for posting friend.

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler


That would have to be the most insightful and truthful post about anything I have ever read on ATS.

If I had the power to get people to read what you just wrote and actually absorb it... I believe they would know it is true and there would a Revolution tomorrow in the streets.

This is the kind of information and insight ATS needs to be utilized for...
While "TPTB" (I really hate using that phrase) do a phenomenal job at keeping the populace inside their cocoons of ignorance, the populace do a pretty damn good job at brainwashing themselves too.

It raises tiny suspicions in my mind on the nature of ATS itself. But like I said, posts like the one you just wrote is the real gold nugget of truth in amongst the mountain of fools gold and that is what ATS should be about...

The unfortunate truth is things will continue along as they are, and eventually at some point there will probably be a war with Iran and that is that...

I wish it were different.

reply to post by Sky watcher

Iran arms, funds and is the boss of Hesbola and Hamas. Each of Iran's terrorist organizations have been operating for along time, before the American war on terror.

Hamas and Hezbollah are, and have been, respected as legitimate groups by the majority in the Muslim and Arab world. They are supported financially by other members of the Middle East region that they are forced to defend. These resistance movements are a direct result of that regions aggressor nation of Israel. Israel is well funded and militarily equipped by the USA despite it's history of criminal behavior, or the fact it's the constant instigator? Unlike Hezbollah and Hamas, Israel is regarded unfavorably by virtually the entire Middle East region and its populace and is also considered by most of the world as the single greatest factor responsible in destabilizing that region.

Basically, you're a hypocrite at very least.

Iran is far from innocent and has had blood on their hands ever since the Arabs hi-jacked THE PERSIAN NATION.

I'd love to hear you elaborate on this statement? Of course you cannot do so with any reality.

As demonstrations have shown, most in Iran do not want the Arab psychos threatening anyone anymore.

Even if this were true, it makes this our problem how exactly? If true this provides support for attacking them?

Russia has already severlly threatend Iran twice, the day they unveiled the Shihab-3 with the improved nose cone ment to carry a nuke and not to much later when they sent one into space.

What does this mean?

Israel and the U.S. have every right to be worried about an Iranian nuclear program and they should do everything they can to stop it.

What do you believe justifies this paranoia in the West? Does "do everything they can to stop it" include a military strike? If so, how?

History has shown when a moderate Iranian leader gets into office things cool down. Its time for change in Iran, one way or the other.

Can you be more specific? You certainly cannot be referring to the Shah Mohammad Reza Pahlavi? You realize this man was a West friendly dictator installed by the USA in a coup d' e'tat.


Feel free to point out anything I may be wrong about. These are facts to the best of my knowledge? Facts that most Iran haters fail to mention when beating their war drum.

I'm confident that you'll not consider what I've said to be possibly true regardless of its importance. Distorted, hypocritical views have no interest in truth.

reply to post by Nomad451


I agree. A lot of my time I put forward to try to explain, I try to establish a

sense of understanding in people, to look at the same things they always see

but with a different perspective, but they do not see it. It's as if they are

desensitized to reality. But, there is little one person can do.

Originally posted by LegalizeFreedom
reply to post by Nomad451

 

I agree. A lot of my time I put forward to try to explain, I try to establish a

sense of understanding in people, to look at the same things they always see

but with a different perspective, but they do not see it. It's as if they are

desensitized to reality. But, there is little one person can do.

What makes propaganda work and how the Powers that Be create their own power is both utilize a simple philosophy of persistence wears out resistance.

Consistency and repetition is the entire key to it. Keep repeating the same lie long enough sooner or later enough people will see it as the truth to form their reality around it. Keep going for the jugular long enough sooner or later the defendant is going to let down their guard and the assailant is going to succeed.

Above all it’s a numbers game that they play in this fashion. Persistence aimed at wearing out resistance eventually gets enough numbers to submit to create synergy and a critical mass that can be then employed towards the goal.

They work on their end 24/7/365 employing politicians, celebrities, authors, political think tanks, pundits and even secret societies to keep broadcasting their message and agenda. This is the key to their power.

We on the other hand need to simply embrace the same persistence wears out resistance strategy by speaking to the underlying truths and agendas, questioning them and exposing them, pointing out the inconsistencies, frauds and lies, and how they actually harm and don’t help the people.

The myth that they sold you is that no one person can not make a difference but the reality is one consistent and persistent person can make a difference in wearing out the reluctance and resistance of others, elevating their consciousness and enhancing their perspectives and enlisting them in a voluntary way to use their own voice and conscious in their own fashion, at their own convenience in times and places of their own choosing to do the same in helping to raise the awareness level of others.

It’s a daunting challenge and supreme task but if I honestly thought one person couldn’t make a difference I wouldn’t post on these forums, I would be busy entertaining myself in recreational pursuits or earning money in business pursuits with the time instead.

I consistently and persistently spend a significant portion of my day in a disciplined way to post and write and to share with others.

I know for a fact that hundreds of people listen to it and consider it because a couple hundred people have selected me as a friend on their friend’s list. I know my words travel much further than ATS because a recent Google search of my ATS screen name turned up of 6 dozen websites around the world that quote my posts on their own sites citing me and ATS as a source for them.

I know my words can have an effect an impact because high ranking federal law enforcement officials have asked me to be cognizant of how many people actually pay attention to what I say and to appreciate that there are people who could be influenced to act based on what I say.

So can one person make a difference? Yes, one person can, when that one person enjoins another person who enjoins another and another and consistently and persistently keeps spreading a clear and concise honest and sensible message it can travel far, take on a life of its own and make a difference.

Most of all I know one person can make a difference through persistence and consistency because that’s exactly what the Powers that Be do too in order to achieve their own goals.

Don’t sell yourself short friend, don’t succumb to the negative, think positive, hope for the best and do your best.

The problem is right now is most of the people in the world have abdicated their individual power and voice.

They have been taught to do that by being taught to believe one person can’t make a difference.

One person can and don’t let anyone ever convince you otherwise.

The Government knows it has a hard sell in drumming up public support for another war in the Middle East.

It is using persistence to wear out the resistance and a consistent message aimed at getting people on board.

1. Iran is becoming a potential nuclear threat.
(Amazingly they used that on Saddam Hussein and found no weapons of mass destruction when questioned on his statements claiming he and Iraq had weapons of mass destruction Hussein later confided he made it up in hopes of scaring the United States or Israel out of attacking Iraq, the fact that a nation claims to have weapons of mass destruction does not in fact mean they have them or that they would use them if they did).
2. Iran’s election was a fraud and the people are unhappy.
(Pre-election polls in the West indicated the incumbent would win by a large margin yet allegations of voter fraud were made 2 hours into the election? Fact less than 15% of Iranian society is opposed to the regime and taking part in the demonstrations and they represent one segment of Iran’s diverse society only and are heavily funded by Western Intelligence).
3. Iraq supports Terrorist organizations like Hamas and Hezbollah.
(The truth is both organizations have civil and militant wings and when Israel went into Lebanon the last time they Hezbollah was happy to engage Israel soldiers in conventional warfare, terrorism is and never had been a legitimate military and security threat, terrorism is about random acts of violence to make political statements usually carried out by nations or groups who lack conventional military power to attack wholesale like we do, but attack piecemeal instead to make political statements, terrorism needs a political not military solution because terrorism is a political tool and not a military one).

But all the propaganda is aimed at persistently and consistently trying to make those three points as real as possible with the aim of wearing out resistance to another war to achieve the critical mass of a majority or near majority of Americans supporting a war in Iran.

Can we make a difference in keeping that message from achieving critical mass?

We sure can if we are as persistent and consistent in our own efforts.

Thanks.