Can children go to Hell?

Originally posted by Trexter Ziam

==============================================
Now you want MY beliefs personally?

I still say the children made a tragic mistake and that their misdeeds will haunt them (rightfully) for the rest of their life. THAT should be HELL enough.

Ahh HA!!!!

here's the good stuff!!!
you have just defined what Hell means to you.

Originally posted by Trexter Ziam
They could make amends until the sun expired, it would never be "enough". Bullies are innately bad people. You can't change that. People don't change, they just fool themselves and sometimes others.

i must say i am sad to hear that you believe people are unable to change, but i still respect your thoughts.

Originally posted by Trexter Ziam
I also personally believe as another poster said - hell is REALLY a misinterpretation and actually isn't in the Bible.

Agreed (somewhat)

Know that earlier, i was only playing "DEVIL'S" advocate to find where YOUR perspectives lay, for that is the part i am most interested in, thanx for sharing your thoughts

Originally posted by teapot

Originally posted by H4W4II4N_PUNCH

is there a true age to maturity?

The human brain completes it's development around the age of 23 and we reach our moral majority at around 30.

Yet legally, at least in the UK, we are legally culpable at the age of 10.

As for children going to hell, no I don't believe this is possible as there is nothing so precious on all the earth as the innocence of a child.

Awww...

interesting stuff, i did not know the "legally culpable" age in UK, thanx.

but consider this. If we reach true (not a definite age) maturity and realize the horrible things we have done in the past, is it understandable to feel guilty about it, or dismiss it as simply childhood imaturity? And im not talking telling little lies or stealing pokemon cards.

ex.3) would be my main focus.




[edit on 14-2-2010 by H4W4II4N_PUNCH]

Almost everyone is judged by the Angel of Death. It is almost inescapable. However, the current karmic condition at the time of your death is the issue. Not what has transpired in a life. True humility and repentance always leads to forgiveness. If one has been arrogant and has not come to face their mistakes in life they will do so at the time of death. If a person is so attached to the worlds of matter that their spirit can not elevate to a higher plan after death then they go to the world of ghosts or descend to hell. Punishment is applied befitting one's condition regardless of believing in such things or not.

Originally posted by pumpkinorange
You say you are seriously interested in the answers. I am not replying to ignite flames.
Your questions mix together two aspects of "guilt". One is civil, i.e. laws of men. This includes unwritten law, i.e. the common law. Usually an age of culpability is presented in these, so a person under some age of knowledge would prob not be considered "guilty", i.e. having knowledge aforethought. As to how long such guilt would extend, this depends on statutes of limitation, e.g. there is no extinction of cupability for murder whatever the age of the defendent when the crime is uncovered.

Very good point. You 'See' what others do not, and yet continue to reply logically to the OP.

When typing this thread, I tried very hard not to include a personal bias and left it 'open end' to get replies from many different types of people, which in turn would braoden my own perspectives. That was my goal.

personaly, i found your post very informative and you brought up things other people didn't, and i learned a few things from you that i may have never known unless i had presented a thread to attract critical thinkers such as yourself.

I am human and can make mistakes so when someone tells me they don't agree with my thoughts, i take the time to view it from their perspective and look at the event as "constructional", and not an offensive attack.

I would have never known if i would have never asked.

thanx for your reply.

Originally posted by Archirvion
What would religous people say if they were proven their theory WRONG, you can just imagine.

If you wonder about these things,listen to Doctor Kaku, he will inform "some" of his knowledge for you, knowledge wich he is allowed to inform the general public, but even this is hard for us to understand.

Wish you good luck.

Thank you,

....interesting

I would like to look more into this doctor of which you speak

Its always fun to read how people say they dont believe in a god who does this or that based on their human emotions. As if they somehow are holier than thow... lol

Sorry folks its a bit more complicted than that, just because in your feeble limited understanding mind you dont understand death in its many forms, and want to blame a god that you have no understanding of..me either by the way. but continually ponder the famine, starving, etc. Maybe God takes them out of this world to stop the suffering etc.. ever think about that??

Everyone looks at death as gods punishment, but isnt heaven the reward???

So maybe the ones who get their early and dont experiance the hardships of life really are the blessed ones!!???

This is earth not heaven, what else would you expect???

Originally posted by sawgunn69
reply to post by H4W4II4N_PUNCH

 

Just my opinion but I dont believe there is a "HELL".

Thank you for sharing all of your insight, very informative

*edit*






[edit on 14-2-2010 by H4W4II4N_PUNCH]

To answer your specific questions:
1) No fault, no foul
2) The parents for not raising the child to understand the nature of reality
3) The NRA
No-one goes to Hell.

Worrying about others is a nice thought but a waste. These examples are in your reality to see how you act and nothing else. While it is good to group with like-minded souls, it might not be good for your growth. Asking for guidance might sway you one way or the other.

I haven't read each reply, as of this post.

On a personal level, I believe there is a way to be children before actually being born children. Once being born a child, then yes. They could die and go to what you think is hell or heaven or your personal flavor.

Originally posted by staple
Worrying about others is a nice thought but a waste. These examples are in your reality to see how you act and nothing else. While it is good to group with like-minded souls, it might not be good for your growth. Asking for guidance might sway you one way or the other.

I appreciate your concern and advice for what is good for me, but ultimately won't i have to be the one to decide for myself, what i chose to believe in? I understand what you are saying, and gave it a lot of thought before i chose to join ATS and share/recieve certain knowledge. I believe one must be able and willing to change (not remain static) in order to truely learn. Now, that concept may change a week from now, but for the moment, im going to stick with it.

thanx for your reply

out of the way idea, what if the afterlife is determined not by age or the way you lived.. but as on your understanding of good and evil .. the core... those that die before they truely understand are reborn as another.. yet when one has wisen to "know" and has made their choice.. then when they die they go where they are ment to be? just random idea.. what u think

reply to post by H4W4II4N_PUNCH


ex.1) Why have you decided somebody is?

ex.2) Why have you decided somebody is?

ex.3) Why have you decided somebody is?

Apologies for answering a question with a question but it seemed the best way to express my answer to your questions.

In response to your final question I would say, how the bully group will be judged definitely depends on the judge, and also the judging criteria the judge uses.

So, without de-railing the thread as requested, we're roling with the concept of Hell - an after life that may be physical, or as H4W4II4N_PUNCH believes "a state of mind". Although I'm assuming here that we are still on board with the conventional after-life aspect of the Hell concept. In saying that, it might be pedantic to qualify that, or even something for a different thread.

Now, I'm presuming the judge in question to be a deity, more than likely from an Abrahamic religion, as this thread of religion often tend to be the bigger proponents of the Hell concept.

With this in mind, perhaps a look at Christian scripture, specifically the Bible could shed some light on the situation. Comicly dark as ever, Proverbs does indeed seem to promote the punishment of children, specifically the beating of them with rods, of what sort doesn't seem relevant here:

"Withhold not correction from the child: for if thou beatest him with the rod, he shall not die" - Proverbs 23:13

However, beating kids with rods isn't much compared to a "fiery furnace" where such atrocities as "wailing" and "gnashing of teeth" occur! - Matthew 13:42.

So perhaps its best to see this one through the eyes of Jesus:

"Then little children were brought to Jesus for him to place his hands on them and pray for them. But the disciples rebuked those who brought them.
Jesus said, "Let the little children come to me, and do not hinder them, for the kingdom of heaven belongs to such as these." When he had placed his hands on them, he went on from there." - Matthew 19:13-15

Hmmmm, I'd say there's hope for the little blighters yet H4W4II4N_PUNCH!

So, if you have children, or can imagine having children - would you be able to judge them guilty with a sentence of ETERNAL damnation with an accompanyment of fire and brimestone?

Cheers. x

Originally posted by amazing
I'd say no. There is no way any god would allow a child to go to hell.

You've never been a parent.

Kids are FROM Hell.

Aside from the theist perspective, that we are ALL born into sin and must be saved from our sinful birthright, the fact is that kids are mean and hateful and cruel little creatures.

I remember when this was driven home for me many years ago, when I still believed that kids were just little angels: I was down at the public library, and I saw a group of little children — talking about kids from 3-years-old to about 5-years-old — of all different ethnicities, torturing a stray dog.

The kids, who were clearly unrelated, were taunting and abusing a little stray dog that had come to them seeking, I dunno, food or love or something. The kids were pulling the animal's tail, kicking it in the balls, bashing it over the head with sticks, throwing rocks at it.

The kids were feeding off of each other's cruelty, reinforcing each evil act with another and yet more evil act.

These kids were from Hell.

And I know that kids do the same thing to one another.

I recall many decades ago, back in my old neighborhood, hearing that a kid living a few blocks away had murdered another child, a friend of the murderer. The murderer was only 11-years-old, the victim was 9-years-old. The murdering brat had stabbed the other kid to death, drug his body out into the woods, then invited a group of other kids over to view and further abuse the corpse.

One of the other kids finally gathered up the nerve to tell his parents, which is how the murder was exposed.

The murderer was hustled away for psychiatric evaluation, there was talk of the kid being placed into some sort of juvenile detention facility, and that was the last anyone ever heard of him. His parents understandably packed up and moved away to parts unknown.

Every day in the news we see stories of kids (like 11 and 12 years of age) robbing people, beating people, even murdering people; and there is no lack of publicly circulated videos of teens beating people in the streets.

This is not behavior that they "learn from society"... This is how kids naturally behave. They must be taught NOT to be cruel and full of hate and violence.

So, of course kids can go to Hell — that's where kids were invented.


— Doc Velocity




[edit on 2/15/2010 by Doc Velocity]

reply to post by H4W4II4N_PUNCH


aside from some eternal fiery fictional 'place'...

..one thing to contemplate is reincarnation...

and it's impact on what we percieve as 'children'...

because if reincarnatino exists.. then Hitler, Stalin, Serial muderers and rapists.. have all reincarnated as ... CHILDREN in their next life.. (that is to say if reincarnation is strictly human-oriented not animal etc..) ..

but if something horrible happens to a child who, in his previousl life was a horrible monster... and never payed for his actions....

how should we react to that?
is that nature applying justice to itself?
if the vital essence of the individul who committed horrible torturous crimes to other people.. never pays for their crime.. then reincarnates their essence into a brand newlyborn child...

and karma takes effect of that child and bad things happen to them...
then can we really judge that as good or bad?
if we prevent that child's suffering are we really preventing the monster they were in their past life from paying their dues?

and these supposed child sacrifices yuou hear of secret societies doing.. (i have zero proof about that and dont' believe one way or the other about those things...) but . IF those actually happen...
what IF those babies are actually the reincarnated terrorizer monstrosity serial rapist killers?

do you still want to stop that from happening?

if nature is "everything' and nature is constantly seeking karmic balance...

and those things happen... who are we to interfere????

i don't believe in your fiery cave hell.. i think that is ridiculous.
i do believe in karmic payback as hell.
a lifetime of mental and emotional anguish far outweigh any fiery cave-pit punishment.

-

Originally posted by aenti
ex.1) Why have you decided somebody is?

ex.2) Why have you decided somebody is?

ex.3) Why have you decided somebody is?

EXACTLY!!!

Actually, I was never asked of what I think of the OP!!!

and on the contrary, I never stated anyone was responsable in these scenarios, i did make a lot of suggestions though (to get into your head )

I will qoute myself "I think i have my answer, but am more curious of you think."

yet nobody wanted to really hear what i think... until now

heres what i think. The only persons that are truely guilty are the ones that feel themselves to be guilty What better judge, then to come to the realization of your own crimes and how it affected those around you, You COULD in fact create your own hell that could eventually cause you to lose your mind in the physical (what you think is physical) world!!!

hmmm... have you ever seen Hellraiser? (the first one) This is a great example of what im trying to show.

I remember watching parts of it as a child and was more afraid of what happened in the movie but did not understand why it happened. As i grew up, i devolped my own understanding of the world and actually forgot what the movie was about. I decided to watch it again "through the eyes of an adult" and was astounded to find that the perspective in that movie closely parallel what i have come to learn on my own.

"State of mind" YOU create IT, Child, teen, adult. BUT... there must be a certain age of maturity... for example i believe babies are exempt and specificly refer to older children in the op. i don't believe the child in ex.1) to be punished for his actions because he did not realize, at that age, the enormity of what he has done. everyone else is still applicable IMO. i guess it comes down to the true age of maturity, which is undefined I think thats where ive been getting stuck, and is what helped cause me to make a thread to see if others have figured out something i haven't thought of yet.

...well thats my thoughts on it anyway.

believe it or not, I have purposely left this thread very "open end" to atract many different types of people and many other points of view. and you indeed saw, what oters did not.

I have learned there are many different definitions of hell and just like my reality is not your reality, why would your hell equate to mine?

Originally posted by aenti
So perhaps its best to see this one through the eyes of Jesus:

"Then little children were brought to Jesus for him to place his hands on them and pray for them. But the disciples rebuked those who brought them.
Jesus said, "Let the little children come to me, and do not hinder them, for the kingdom of heaven belongs to such as these." When he had placed his hands on them, he went on from there." - Matthew 19:13-15

Hmmmm, I'd say there's hope for the little blighters yet H4W4II4N_PUNCH!

I was unaware of this passage in the Bible and don't believe anyone else brought it up, thank you. but i do remember someone saying something about children being born of sin and can not enter heaven without being baptized... but we arnt talking about heaven huh. leave it to me to derail my own thread

Originally posted by aenti
So, if you have children, or can imagine having children - would you be able to judge them guilty with a sentence of ETERNAL damnation with an accompanyment of fire and brimestone?

...No i believe it would be up to them to follow their own hearts and trust they will walk the right direction,

Thank you for your post much appreciated!!!

*edit* more detail in my post


[edit on 15-2-2010 by H4W4II4N_PUNCH]

Originally posted by prevenge
what IF those babies are actually the reincarnated terrorizer monstrosity serial rapist killers?

do you still want to stop that from happening?

if nature is "everything' and nature is constantly seeking karmic balance...

and those things happen... who are we to interfere????

i don't believe in your fiery cave hell.. i think that is ridiculous.
i do believe in karmic payback as hell.
a lifetime of mental and emotional anguish far outweigh any fiery cave-pit punishment.

Interesting perspective, and i have considered this as a possibility, but how can one possibly "KNOW" and use that as a justifacation to kill another.

a lot of "what if's " and very thought provoking post

thanx for your reply

Originally posted by Doc Velocity

Originally posted by amazing
I'd say no. There is no way any god would allow a child to go to hell.

You've never been a parent.

Kids are FROM Hell.

Aside from the theist perspective, that we are ALL born into sin and must be saved from our sinful birthright, the fact is that kids are mean and hateful and cruel little creatures.

I remember when this was driven home for me many years ago, when I still believed that kids were just little angels: I was down at the public library, and I saw a group of little children — talking about kids from 3-years-old to about 5-years-old — of all different ethnicities, torturing a stray dog.

The kids, who were clearly unrelated, were taunting and abusing a little stray dog that had come to them seeking, I dunno, food or love or something. The kids were pulling the animal's tail, kicking it in the balls, bashing it over the head with sticks, throwing rocks at it.

The kids were feeding off of each other's cruelty, reinforcing each evil act with another and yet more evil act.

These kids were from Hell.

And I know that kids do the same thing to one another.

I recall many decades ago, back in my old neighborhood, hearing that a kid living a few blocks away had murdered another child, a friend of the murderer. The murderer was only 11-years-old, the victim was 9-years-old. The murdering brat had stabbed the other kid to death, drug his body out into the woods, then invited a group of other kids over to view and further abuse the corpse.

One of the other kids finally gathered up the nerve to tell his parents, which is how the murder was exposed.

The murderer was hustled away for psychiatric evaluation, there was talk of the kid being placed into some sort of juvenile detention facility, and that was the last anyone ever heard of him. His parents understandably packed up and moved away to parts unknown.

Every day in the news we see stories of kids (like 11 and 12 years of age) robbing people, beating people, even murdering people; and there is no lack of publicly circulated videos of teens beating people in the streets.

This is not behavior that they "learn from society"... This is how kids naturally behave. They must be taught NOT to be cruel and full of hate and violence.

So, of course kids can go to Hell — that's where kids were invented.


— Doc Velocity
[edit on 2/15/2010 by Doc Velocity]

GREAT POST!!!!!

Way to show a perspective from the other side of the fence!!!

Great insight and reasoning, Thank You

Originally posted by H4W4II4N_PUNCH
Once again, i am looking for that ATS insight. The question: Can children go to hell for the decisions they make? I've been really stuck on this for the last week and had this thought several times throughout my life. Personally, i believe hell to be a state of mind and not really the conventional definition of the word. Allow me to share a few situations..... [edit on 13-2-2010 by H4W4II4N_PUNCH]

No need my friend as I'm pretty sure that 'Hell' as a negative concept was (yet another!) human rewrite inclusion in the middle ages, as they wanted to make sure the truly ignorant were kept in perpetual fear (by the controlling thugs at the top of religions - no change there I hear you all cry)by those that were telling them (the readers or learned ones )what was in the Bible of the time. So in short children can't go somewhere that doesn't exist and I'm also fairly sure that these 'naughty' children were not born that way but simply made that way by their teachers/parents influence and flawed programming. I know this feels hard to accept but once you get over your ego (not you poster, just ‘we’ in general) you’ll see this makes uncomfortable sense?

reply to post by H4W4II4N_PUNCH


Ah, thanks a lot H4W4II4N_PUNCH! Spot on, enjoyed joining in, truth be told, I'm still building up to my 20 post mark so I can start my very own thread, hehe.

Haven't seen Hellraiser, but appreciate your point though.



Maybe people take a look at Hell in an odd way to find gratitude for what they've got. Like watching an episode of Eastenders?

Cheers. x