a new system of living

Hi all, it's my first time on this board, hope this is the right place for this,

i have been contemplating this for a long while and thought i might put it to the ats test, just to see if anyone can spot a flaw in my concept of a new form of "government", i dont realy like to call it government as i am not realy sure what you would call it, maybe administration?,

my concept relies on the the infrastructure that has been built up by an old and outdated capitalist dictatorship as i am sure most of us here would recognise our governments have become. this is aimed at england as i believe it to be the perfect size model state

it begins with an ethic, "everybody has a right to freedom and the rights of a coop", what this means is that it will be a completely free market economy but all revenues collected will go towards the betterment of life for the people, this involves things like state owned transport which is free to use, state owned power distribution with which each domestic user has a free allowance, only being charged once they exceed this, companys will pay a slightly higher tariff for electricity to subsidise the domestic users. If a company makes profits from the country that it operates in it has to thank the country and its people. all utilities will be state owned and nobody will have to pay for water as it is a social and human necessity as is the sewage.in a nut shell renationalisation of all public service indutries and made free

there will be a full withdrawl from europe and a closure on immigration until such a point that the new system can decide how immigration will affect or serve the public interests

the hardest thing for me at the moment is trying to explain this system, but it works on the principles of the population being the members of a cooperative that is england, there will be no government, just a set of rules that people must abide by, i think that the best way would be if people posed question/problems that they can see and i can answer them, i am convinced that this could work, so come let me have it

sounds like your talking about communism, or possibly anarchist communism(a very old term).

A good book to read is "anarchism, a collection of revolutionary writings" by peter kropotkin.

He's been dead for about 100 years, but he wrote probably the most thorough and well explained system of no government, or or police.

Certainly having been dead for 100 years some of his ideas are outdated, but the core ideology is very advanced. I have always believed that all humans are truly anarchist at heart, whether they know it or not. I was shocked to see kropotkin say the same thing, in the same words. Anarchism is the highest form of society, only a truly advanced people could pull it off.

Your system...has many many many flaws, but keep tryin, keep polishing it, and don't take it to hard when people totally pick it apart in this thread. I would start the picking myself, but honestly, I'm dead tired and not even sure I get through this sentence......zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.....

too tired to think too deeply about this, but the current systems don't work so I'd be happy to give yours a go. there's bound to be conflict over it, and some will only be thinking out of greed and selfishness, but unfortunately that seems to be a part of human nature. That'll probably be your biggest hurdle - the elites won't like it.
I don't know how things work in the UK, but I found an interesting loophole in oz that may interest you if you want to give your way of living a try:
www.hutt-river-province.com...
www.caslon.com.au...

The trouble is, while the system is very broken, all other systems will also break due to human nature.

Even if we end up with a perceived "Centre(/er)" political system and neither extreme wins, it will eventually result in either the corporations taking power or the state taking power. Sooner or later, someone will take power because they can, and it only takes one corrupt person in 70 million to do it.

That said, the HOPE is, that the other 69,999,999 will spot that and actually try to DO something about it. Maybe the 2012 thing, if nothing else, will attract attention to some of the issues of responsibility and spiritual growth hinted at by it, which in itself would be a positive move for humanity.

reply to post by THELONIO


A government big enough to supply you with everything you need, is a government big enough to take away everything that you have.

Sound familiar?

Remember, it isnt free if someone else has to pay for it.

this system relies on there being trade and jobs it is not a communist system, i have allowed for people to work and get money and for those who do not want to work, currently in england it is completely impossible to be fully self sufficient, payments must be made to people like local councils water suppliers, these would be free, you could still have a pension because trade carries on, there would have to be a police force to keep the peace, wages would be a bit lower because of the added costs to business's but out goings for households would be less and it would balance out, this system depends on a capitalist structure

I really like the idea, but feel it would only work on a very very small scale, nothing near any sizable country.

What flaw I find is, without a central government, how do we enforce all of this?

yea, set of rules is well and good, but what happens when a large group decides the rules don't work? Then what?

And you mentioned they would have the right to a coop, what if one waives that right? Are they simply cast out?

Knowing that you said this is not communism, it really seems to be all the promises of communism, you know, like how communism is a great idea on paper, but not in practice? Regardless, I'll help question so you can further your thoughts. I'm all for a new system

i suppose the point of it all is that we work nearly every day of our lives and for what?, the government robs us blind, spends our money, gives it away to other countries, then robs more, after a lifetime of toil we end up with nothing, why cant a nation of 70 million people work towards betterment for the whole nation of people, we dont need a government with millions of pounds worth of vintage wine in their cellar two homes each and now euro politicians doubleing the expense and rape of our finances, i say if we do it we do it for ourselves, governments cause war and pestilence, they socialy engineer us and manage to cause more social unrest and harm in the process. please post me some questions about this system so that i can address them logically

reply to post by THELONIO


I am thrilled to meet you - S&F.

Everything else has broken down, so YES BRING ON COMMUNISM!

It is time that all people are equal. And governments are full of corrupted people and idiots.

But guess what? This thread will not survive.

reply to post by THELONIO


You mean Utopia??

....that's cool. Count me in!!!

Peace

[edit on 14-2-2010 by operation mindcrime]

reply to post by THELONIO


Under your idea we would be working for "us", but in the end, what is the difference?

We take control, we have what you suggest in effect, but still, at the end of the day, how does it change how we impact anything.

People would still have to work, people would still need to punch the clock, some of us would have crappy jobs, some would have great ones, it's all part of a society.

How do we stop someone from turning us back into the "old way"?

I am taking this stance because I see government as a necessary evil, although it doesn't have to necessarily BE evil.

Meaning this: There are far to many people in any country to do it the old fashion way were everyone meets at a designated time, all of our thoughts and concerns are heard, and we vote on those. It just plain is not possible, so we elect representatives...blah blah blah, you know how that goes. Some are bad guys, some are good, all are looking out for them. The problem is not in "government" the problem is in the execution.

As silly as this may sound...it's a hate the player not the game scenario.

I just don't see any group of people coming together to make a coop country work.

Here when USA was founded, it was by men who felt the need to form a new government because "tyrannical England" was the big bad, yet they couldn't agree on one thing most the time. Well they came to compromises, and bam!, now USA is the new big bad. You get what I'm saying? It's a cycle. We are at the point where concerned citizens send the wake up calls to the politicians.

Various methods are used, but the only ones that work are hitting them where it hurts...not the pocket book, not their lives, but their dignity. Despite what we may think, they at least feel like they have lots of dignity. Hit any man there, and he will crumble.

(sorry for the little rant, but I feel it helps portray my stance more, and can help you in your thought process)

reply to post by iamsupermanv2


OK, people would work together. People don't do that - you are right.

People are selfish - just look at all the rulers in this world.

But, maybe, people are growing tired of the corrupt people who are telling them what to do.

That could be enough to inspire people to get together.

reply to post by iamsupermanv2


the rules are "laws" , there will be a form of government but they would be unable to make decisions for the people, their job would be to carry out the wishes of the people. not to tell the people what they want them to do, how many things has a government done for you that you didnt want?, lets look at the millenium dome in london, £789,000,000, and £1,000,000 per month to maintain, i dont know how much it was sold for but you can be sure it was pennies and probably still costs the tax payers, the dome is quite a small expenditure in governmental terms but think what would of been a good present to the people of england for the millenium, personally i would have suggested a hydro electric dam giving cheap electricity to the masses for all their hard work, how about a millenium hospital?, the point is we got a tent and screwed

reply to post by iamsupermanv2


there would be a body of government but not in the way that it is today, when you do your household budgeting if you have any money left over once the bills are paid do you give it to the poor family down the road?, do you spend it all on a tent or fixing your perfect driveway because your job may not pay you the same amount next month if you dont spend it all this month?, this is how our taxs are spent but if we had people to make sure the money was not wasted, it would cost us next to notthing in tax, everything has to be aimed at running the country like a household, not a gravy train, the beauty of this system is that people do not need to come together to make a coop, it is just a new ethic of living and the countries expenditure, it would be a real island economy

the revenue from business's alone would pay for most of the costs of the country, why cant england export electricity rather than buy it all from france after selling it off to them, it dosent make sense, our country is being run by the most incompetent people on the planet, everything should be aimed at the benefit of the population not the country, because the people are the country, without them the country is just a piece of land

Originally posted by THELONIO
just a set of rules that people must abide by

Who decides those rules?
Who polices those rules?
Who judges the rulebreakers?

What is to stop people wasting water?
Does a single person get the same electricity allowance as a family?

The funny thing is I think they might already be trying this in Britain.

But seriously it is a bad idea if you give any government that much control they will only want more and it will come at the cost of freedom. Its kind of funny we keep seeing basically the same thread but by different OP's but the message is very similar. I am sure it is just a coincidence right. I would hate to think there is this huge progressive conspiracy and they are slowly acclimating us to what the end game is. I am sure I am just paranoid. Can you believe at one point in time I actually thought there was some big conspiracy to control the media. Well I guess that is a bad example.

[edit on 14-2-2010 by Subjective Truth]

reply to post by dereks


rules can be made that are for the benefit of the the population, rules that nobody will disagree with, as to who sets the rules, i have long believed that the only way forward towards reform of this level is by a violent revolution, almost everybody told me that it was the wrong way to go about it, i listened and thought it through, we have a democracy that most of the population foolishly believe in, as with communism it sounds like a good idea but unfortunately it has proved to not work, it just results in the majority of the people being unhappy, but with all that said, it is the current system, so it should be used to gain control with real policies pertaining towards the aims of the system, thus gaining the approval of the people, once this has been achieved there will be four years in order to instigate the new system and set immovable laws in which to protect it, to guard against politicians hijacking the country again. the rules must and have to be completly for the benefit of the population,aimed at entirely at returning the rights to the people that have been lost under the old regimes.

the police will police the rules and laws, this system will not change peoples lives in many ways, it cant, people want nice new cars, new t.v.s, it will just get better for people , the banks will stay open and so will the burger van on the layby, that is the beauty of this system, it will just take everything that is wrong with the old way and make it work for the benefit of the people,

the courts will still exist hence they will judge the rule breakers, but most importantly a lot of the rules will be flexibly rigid, i know it is hard to understand.

once people start to understand how the system works they will not want to waste water, people will always try to keep within there electrical allowance, as to a family over a single person, every body has an allowance from the day they are born, but a sliding scale that changes with age, but also each property will have a fuel allowance, i for one do not have gas, i only use electricity, hence i would have a larger allowance for electricity than somebody that uses gas aswell,

this system will build respect from the population because they will no longer see their tax being wasted by their government, but going towards themselves and improving their lives

reply to post by Subjective Truth


the bit that people do not seem to understand is that the government will not have any level of control like they have now, it will be administering the wishes of the people rather than telling the people what to do, for the first four years there will be control whilst the old system is disbanded and the new system put in place, there may be some parts that will need adjusting as time goes on to ensure it is self sustaining.

it is a shame that the systems that we all now live under have destroyed our hope in a better life and made us feel like we will be stuck with this ever diminishing life that we all now lead, you should start looking towards how to make life better, what i have done is tried to imagine a perfection and then worked backwards to see how we can get there from where we are now, keep your chin up, one day we may not even need websites like this one because life will be much more simpler and transparent