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Think Tank: Time and Time Travel

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posted on Feb, 13 2010 @ 10:06 PM
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Originally posted by TarzanBeta
Sorry Doc, but darkness is not an alternate universe. Get the head out of the text book... or the selfish scientist's brain.

I don't base any of my arguments on "textbook" Science. Most scientists are afraid to step outside of their "known" physical laws, which is exactly what you must do in order to defy Time.

Which, of course, IS possible, even by Scientific standards. There's nothing in Science that says you can't travel across Time.

Where you come up with this "darkness" pitch — get it? Pitch darkness
— is exactly like the scientists who only think Time Travel half-way through, then abandon the thought experiment without answering certain basic questions. You're afraid to step beyond the limits of your "understanding," so you're left behind in your world of light as the rest of us willingly step across the threshold into the darkness that you so fear.

— Doc Velocity




[edit on 2/13/2010 by Doc Velocity]



posted on Feb, 14 2010 @ 04:12 AM
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Rather than physically moving through time it would be much simpler to create a virtual time machine. Accelerating particles though a wormhole reflected off the target viewing area until enough data is built up to build the virtual world or view the target time & place. Sort of how we get pictures of Mars - one bit at a time.

First you could only look or peer in time just as we look into the past (mostly) every time we gaze at the stars, but eventually you could do more.

The time traveler would never physically leave his time, his mind could while viewing portions of the target time though his virtual interface. While he could not physically Kill off Hitler, he could view Hitler when Hitler is in the open or at known coordinates where he could be viewed more easily. Perhaps one could send signals through reflective objects, technology of the time (radio) or maybe even interface with someones brain who is living during the target time to push them to kill Hitler. Maybe somebody already pushed Hitler from the future.

We could even setup hardware (repeaters) to allow those using this technology to have greater resolution from the point that we turn the machine on. Sort of like turning on our future skype interface so that people in the future can view or interface with us with greater resolution.

Anyway I have no doubt that we will be able to increase our resolution of the past & future if we just build the right tools to do so. Actually moving though time in a Delorean will probably never happen, but I suppose you could build it into your virtual tool kit if that's what you like.



[edit on 14-2-2010 by verylowfrequency]



posted on Feb, 14 2010 @ 07:42 AM
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Originally posted by Doc Velocity

Originally posted by TarzanBeta
Sorry Doc, but darkness is not an alternate universe. Get the head out of the text book... or the selfish scientist's brain.

I don't base any of my arguments on "textbook" Science. Most scientists are afraid to step outside of their "known" physical laws, which is exactly what you must do in order to defy Time.

Which, of course, IS possible, even by Scientific standards. There's nothing in Science that says you can't travel across Time.

Where you come up with this "darkness" pitch — get it? Pitch darkness
— is exactly like the scientists who only think Time Travel half-way through, then abandon the thought experiment without answering certain basic questions. You're afraid to step beyond the limits of your "understanding," so you're left behind in your world of light as the rest of us willingly step across the threshold into the darkness that you so fear.

— Doc Velocity




[edit on 2/13/2010 by Doc Velocity]


I will further contemplate if I am afraid of anything regarding this thought experiment, but as I see it so far, I haven't been afraid of any part of this.

I will get back to you and let you know if you are right.
But, I already underwent this thought exercise and come up pretty clear as to the conclusion. The laws are the laws. Find a way around them if you want, but I suspect that you will be disappointed.

Our bodies ARE the time travel machines... there is nothing else.



posted on Feb, 14 2010 @ 07:54 AM
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Originally posted by SeekerofTruth101
reply to post by TarzanBeta
 


Thank you for your post, and I did read it in its entirety. My question to you for your theological beliefs now is:-

Would you freak out if I told you that the sons of light, mentioned in many theological and psychic beliefs, MAY be literally taken to mean an advance civilisation of scientist, engineers and techicians who are capable of reducing our souls/consciousness into light/energy particles and then upload it into biological matter over time and space, purposes of which are relatively unknown to us yet?

When the atom bomb was discovered and created, some thought they could harness such efficient but dangerous energies. They thought wrong and through free will, had seen the proliferation of nukes by every fearful govt and war mongering dictators hell bent on wiping off humans for their own selfish desires.

Is this such forms and expressions of free will, an excuse which may be a hope of returning to good, for giving sentient life to man by the sons of light?

And being an advance civilisation, a thinking society ,be filled with people such as Doc Velocity in his recent post to stop too much interference of events in time and space?

Conjectures here perhaps but some say many more not be able to handle the truth, sometimes which can only come from different sources and from a corner of the unknown darkness such as the annonymous but fearless internet. But what if the truth is told to you in this post, today? Can you handle it?

Will you freak out?

PS: Here's some some music to help flow your comprehension, if the red wine doesnt. Peter Brown



[edit on 13-2-2010 by SeekerofTruth101]


You basically just regurgitated the whole Cylon thing again. Dang! I thought I shot this bird down...

I wouldn't be surprised if it turns out that angels usually take the form of gophers with shovels and dig up clay and sprinkle silver and gold and zinc (we need zinc) all over the molded clay and then an angel looking like Danny Devito or Joe Pesci pulls out a flamethrower (or so we think, but it's actually an energy ray) which zaps the clay mold and makes a new living body for an expecting someone who is being transferred across the heavens a million light-years away from earth to the Danny DeVito planet called VITA where the clay molded person lies waiting it's new consciousness which is really just a particle which is encoded with a specific password because the brain is finite and has only so many different combinations of the rearranging of the neurons and the ways that all the cells in the brain interact and the DNA... any certain arrangement is a person and that particular arrangement belongs to that person - SO, yeah, that particle that is sent would just be the password to unlocking the expecting Joe Dirt ( who got tired of being David Spade and actually asked God if he could be Brad Pitt)

Okay I've gone too far... My point is, I don't claim to know the actual details of how it is all accomplished except that I know that humans,we, ourselves, cannot time travel. IT's a fact. Anyone who thinks that we time travel outside of our normal rate inside our very, very temporary physical bodies is a plain fool without honesty or the ability to calculate simple things. Too bad fantasy takes a hold of so many people! I'm good at fantasy... but I don't let it make me believe reality is it.

So, for anyone who wants to access Brad Pitt, the password is A898-KJVB-9990-1BC&-*666. I copied it right off the back of the CD case.



posted on Feb, 14 2010 @ 06:53 PM
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I was just sitting and brainstorming alone with my brain once I saw this thread and thought of [as in completely un-supported by proof] a "theory";

The general problem with traveling in time (let's say by the basic means of traveling faster than light) lies in achieving such speeds that would surpass photons. That is because looking into the maths behind it, one would require an infinite amount of acceleration [as in force to propel the object] or an infinite amount of time to go with a non-infinite acceleration.
At least I think this is the case, since this is what I was told by my physics teacher when I asked him last year.


Now beyond these rules set out by general relativity I haven't found anything tangible which explains this impossibility, but I didn't search very long either since it would probably instantly prove my recently born brainchild wrong!

Now as I was thinking, my conscious mind instantly started visualizing a plausible, tangible and graphical model to ease my act of wrapping around the subject.
What I came up with was as following;

What if one would visualize space as a 3D-grid (so far so good, that's pretty much what it is!) and then each little cube in this grid contained a time-component, which, once passed, also represented the amount of time traversed.
Now as you travel in this grid at an increased pace, you would traverse time faster than normal, as you encountered more time-components. But these components would also affect the object with friction to a point where light-speed is achieved and further acceleration would be impossible due to the amount of friction is unable to be surpassed without piercing a hole in space(time), where one would travel beyond time, or rather, not through time at all.
Now this probably has more holes than a swiss cheese, but I can't be arsed to point out my own wrongs


The reason I thought about this was also due to not understanding what role light (photons) plays in time. Now they are the fastest "objects" we can measure, but why light? Even though an event occurs at one part of space, the event will still have happened before the information of it happening reaches another part of space.

Take for example quantum entanglement; (as little as I know about it) Despite the spatial distance two entangled pairs have, once one of them changes a quantum position, the other does as well, but at an opposite manner. It happens instantaneously, faster than one could deliver the information of the change of position between them. (don't quote me on that, my only source is a poorly grasped wiki)

I just thought I'd share my thoughts. It is a think tank after all


[edit on 14-2-2010 by aboveGoos]

[edit on 14-2-2010 by aboveGoos]



posted on Feb, 14 2010 @ 08:06 PM
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Time travel is possible. How does a time traveler got into his machine in 2010 and go back to 1933 and step out into the world and not interstellar space? If you consider that time is like a river, that if you go in reverse, or up the river you will simply follow the path of where the river was at any point in time. No matter where you go back in time, you could follow a river past your own existence and keep following it to where ever it leads. But where ever you go you will do so in a fixed place in the universe. This was how in the original time machine movie, the traveler was able to move his machine 50 feet to a point in his front yard and go back to the year 800,000 and find himself outside the Morlock fortress doors. No matter where you are in any fixed point in the universe, you will travel on that river of time where that fixed point is, was, or is to be. This is because of universal inflation. All points start from the center and inflate outwards into infinity. So the Earth (if you happen to be on it) will always be under your feet when you time travel. It would also be true if you were on the moon or Mars. You would not end up in interstellar space where Earth was, because Earth "will" be there when you arrive.



posted on Feb, 14 2010 @ 11:12 PM
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Great thread, for the last 6 months or so I have been spending countless hours upon hours in deep thought over this subject. While I would love to go on and on about some of the things I have been working on I just want to keep it fairly simple. I am of the beliefe that time travel forward is possible but its going back in time that creates the problem. and while I believe for the most part going back is probably not possible I try to come up with plausable ways it could work.

Now First off I am talking about physical time travel back in time not mental or otherwise. Now first off even if we were to go back in time we would still be going forward because to the traveler it is still one moment after then next. however that is the type of time travel backwards we would be looking for.

Now if you have given this subject serious thought you will know the basic problems with why going back in time is something that does not seem physically possible. In trying to come up with a way that physical travel back would be possible I came up with a very interesting theroy I have been enjoying working with. Seeing this post I thought I would pass it along as a thinking outside the box way to practical time travel backwards.

Now lets say there was a beginning to time where time officially started. Acording to Newtons third law to every action there is an equal and opposite reaction, so If when whatever event started off time flowing forward from moment to moment occured it would be plausable to assume that an opposite time line started off flowing in the opposite direction or in other words time moving in the opposite direction as ours. Now lets say this opposite time flow existed in an alternate dimention just to keep it simple. Now theoretically in this case if we had the ability to move into this alternate dimension the time spent there would be moving in reverse to ours so when we decided to move back into our dimension it would be the past. A very messy theory full of problems but the idea is intriguing non the less and the glimmer of a possibility is there though we're no where near the technology to make it happen.

Thats what I wanted to share, this has become my favorite subject as of late so I hope someone will enjoy toying with my theory.



posted on Feb, 14 2010 @ 11:28 PM
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Originally posted by Fromabove
No matter where you are in any fixed point in the universe, you will travel on that river of time where that fixed point is, was, or is to be. This is because of universal inflation. All points start from the center and inflate outwards into infinity. So the Earth (if you happen to be on it) will always be under your feet when you time travel. It would also be true if you were on the moon or Mars. You would not end up in interstellar space where Earth was, because Earth "will" be there when you arrive.

Not at all. You speak of Time/Space as a "river," but we're not talking about jumping into a canoe and paddling up or downstream, the action of which must still obey the physical laws that govern the river itself.

When you defy Time itself, you necessarily defy Space. Necessarily.

When you turn against Space, you turn against all the physical laws that govern Space, including gravity. This would mean that you have just created a "bubble" of separate Space/Time, a separate Universe just large enough for you and your Time Machine. This separate Universe (I call the "alternate Universe") IS NOT BOUND to the "real Universe" in any respect — therefore, it DOES NOT magically follow the Space/Time river of the real Universe.

You can't even make the "river" comparison, because, in your analog, the Time Machine still vanishes from the scenario, ceasing to exist in the real world.

It defies that which makes the river exist, you see. Any Time Travel scenario suggests extraordinary "alternate physics" in order to work, such that you can't really compare it to anything in three-dimensional Space.

My comparison is to a massive super-highway filled with vehicles all traveling in one direction at more or less the same velocity — this represents Existence as we know it. While we're engaged in negotiating this traffic, we don't seem to be moving very fast at all, all the other vehicles seem to be only meandering along with us.

However, the moment we pull over to the shoulder of the highway and stop, the stream of traffic roars away from us at high velocity — This would be equivalent to the expanding Universe racing away from us as soon as we activated the Time Machine.

Our "place" in the traffic quickly moves away and out of sight; and, in all likelihood, we'll never return to that exact area of traffic again. Ever. Not without some really extraordinary bending of physical laws.

That's why I say the greatest trick to Time Travel is finding your way back. The initial journey will be haphazard and essentially random... But, when we try to find Earth again out of an interstellar or even intergalactic void, featuring no recognizable stars or constellations by which to plot our course, THAT is where the fun really begins.

— Doc Velocity





[edit on 2/14/2010 by Doc Velocity]



posted on Feb, 14 2010 @ 11:48 PM
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Originally posted by Angelsoftheapocalypse
Before I start, this is a Think Tank. in other words, you bring your ideas and thoughts on the subject, not on who is right or wrong. This is used to gather information, and to make new ideas.

Is time travel even possible?

is time itself?

it have mass?


Time doesn't exist as we think it does. In basic terms, imagine that 1 year on earth (one revolution around the sun) is totally different than 1 year on any other planet. So our basic idea of time is off. Therefore, we need to have a basic/generic time unit. Since it varies everywhere you go what could that be? Just for simplicity let's just say 1 minute is our standard.

One minute for humans is a pretty short amount of time - there's not much we really do in 1 minute. But, imagine how short one minute is for our solar system - almost nothing changes. Now, imagine one minute to the electrons floating around in the neurochemicals of your brain! one minute can be the life-death-rebirth 1,000,000 times for an electron. (based on QED vibrations and in-and-out blinks).

* with that out of the way *

At a given level of speed time is relative. On the quantum level things might happen 10s of millions of times faster than what we experience - meaning... if we could somehow be aware of that time frame we'd see the world in an entirely different way.

Imagine that every millionth of a second our human body is reproduced on the quantum level, according to some underlying force of Karma let's say. If we could change things on that quantum level time travel and teleportation would be the norm, and not anything spectacular.

The thing we need is more energy. If E=MC2 then increasing energy reduces mass, until we have a totally different idea of what life, material world, and time are.

So, I think time travel is possible and right along with that de-materialization, and awareness of Karma or consequences would be a mandatory and undeniable byproduct.

[edit on 14-2-2010 by Thermo Klein]



posted on Feb, 14 2010 @ 11:57 PM
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If we were to reach that much more subtle level of existence, maybe we'd find that time travel locations and life would revolve more around a universal, all-encompassing conciousness, meaning... wherever we want to be, we can be there and "then" simply by awareness of will or thought.

At the very subtle, small levels of Quantum ElectroDynamics time and space would be one with consciousness. We'd basically be Buddha - all of us in one interconnected conscious existence.


[edit on 15-2-2010 by Thermo Klein]



posted on Feb, 15 2010 @ 04:01 AM
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reply to post by Doc Velocity
 



Originally posted by Doc Velocity


That's why I say the greatest trick to Time Travel is finding your way back.


Yes, a time traveler might spend the rest of eternity trying to get back home - where he started. Another reason why a time traveler would be better off sending time probes that did the work for him & while he controls them from his original time. Again one would sit in their virtual time machine & never leave his time physically. As long as you have your data stream you don't need to be there physically. Just like we send instruments to Mars we'd send instruments in time.

[edit on 15-2-2010 by verylowfrequency]



posted on Feb, 15 2010 @ 08:13 AM
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Time travel forward may be within this generation's capability.

We need not be physically in future to shape events, simply because the future is fully digitised, and necessary info is easily found by just reading newsfeed unlike the ancient past, which one needs to be there physically to alter or make changes.

We already know and had reduce analog data into the digital field and transmitted iit through energy particles such as light and electromagnetic frequencies, a reality we see before our eyes - info on our computer and how such info came about.

Gunter Nimtz and Alfons Stahlhofen, of the University of Koblenz had experimented on photons and was found to be capable of faster than speed of light travel = quantum tunnelling.

Should we use his mechanical devices, we will tap it to an internet line source today, and with a built in auto-switch to turn on the device set to every 7 days to send data 'backwards in time', future weekly digital data may be viewed onto a normal computer today!

Many may puke with the moral and ethical aspect of altering the future - a chance to correct future mistakes today. However, there exists some who will have no moral or ethical qualms to do such acts, and mostly, they are either secretive executives or despots out to protect their powers.

Even if we responsible humanity were to stop such developements out of ethics, there will be others who will not have such lofty noble idealisms, sadly......

For good or for bad, science had continued to advance at rapid speeds, and at a pace whereby our human evolution are not ready take responsibilities for its use.

And this aspect poses a danger to mankind, the way the atom bomb developement and use had.

[edit on 15-2-2010 by SeekerofTruth101]



posted on Feb, 15 2010 @ 11:44 AM
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Is time travel even possible?

Yes

is time itself?

Time is a definition on a measure humans use to determine events.

Without events ,time as we know it would not exist.

it have mass?

No ,but it can measure what mass does

it a fluid or solid or a gas, or something else?

Time is a dimension ,like space. Imagine it as the 4th dimension ,
where time is a dot and the fifth connects the dots to like a 2d.
Then imagine 6th dimension makes a "3d" version of time or "Timespace"

it be Measured?

Yes it can be measured.

How do we travel through time safely?

By using wormholes or other faster than light travel.

Do you travel through time as a solid, like as in a time machine?

Time is relative ,not solid. It can change in various ways.

Do you de-materialize like a transporter in star trek?

If you use teleport for time travel ,yes.

if we do travel through time, what consequences do we bring to the world we know?

New knowledge ,strange effects to be measured..

what changes will occur if we do step into the past?

You will either terminate your existance or create another "worldline"

or will there even be any changes?

Worldlines are different so you would notice changes ,yes.

do you really change the future, or just go into a parallel universe?

Parallel universe "Worldlines" Otherwise you would most likely destroy your existence.

are their even any parallel universes?

There are infinite "worldlines" where every possible outcome can exist.



posted on Feb, 15 2010 @ 12:10 PM
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I think of time as a 3D object. This object is our universe. It is made up of an infinite amount of frames.Inside these frames they interact with each other. Even though they are at different times.Like an individual frame can bend it's space-time so far that it changes the frame underneath it and above it. Like a black hole.So if you can change light to mass you can make that frame dragging. This also means that an object in it future frame can make itself by interacting. The interaction would actually be time travel. It would be better understood as an object creating itself. Like a massive star dying then turning into a black hole. The rotating a black hole would cause the hydrogen that made the star to assemble then create the star itself.SO just to recap an object that is infinitely long and wide made up of an infinite amount of frames that can interact with each other. Where the first object is made by the last object or vice versa.

[edit on 15-2-2010 by Gentill Abdulla]



posted on Feb, 15 2010 @ 12:24 PM
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reply to post by Gentill Abdulla
 


I also believe there is no such thing as a paradox. Mostly because like this since it can interact then the interaction would have already happened within the former frame. So let's say you go back in time find 5 moons 2 earths and 2 suns. Let's say that you destroy 4 moons 1 earth and 1 sun. Did you destroy the future?So anything you do was predetermined. But in this scenario of time there still could be other universes on the side of this object. Where you could literally "sidestep out of space time".Like the so called grandfather paradox let's say you end up shooting your grandfather. What you don't know just might be ,that before you were born, that your grandfather was mysteriously shot by a man he didn't know. But he ended up surviving. There is still the possible sidestep though.



posted on Feb, 15 2010 @ 01:28 PM
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reply to post by Doc Velocity
 


I fear that if people aren't ever willing to go beyond that threshold then we may never be able to do so. I myself believe I am a risk taker and see time travel as a fairly challenging subject. Though I do believe I understand it better than most. I also believe that their minds completely block them from seeing how to do so. There is only one word that I can describe that changes a scientist from a pioneer. That word is "imagination". That being said check and mate.



posted on Feb, 15 2010 @ 06:32 PM
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Time travel does not exist in the sense of going back or forwards in time and meeting your own spirit animating a leather bag at the same moment yet also at some other point of "history". The matter here is real, though it is constantly changing, it is real. For time travel to be real in a physical sense means incalculable material regions someone being cloned at a rate of the smallest time interval. Time travel does exists in the form of a movie, a mirror and a strata of the creation that records ones actions throughout past history. Forward time exists just as thought precedes actions, in that the approximate karmic plan is being calculated for the future based on the karmic needs. But it is impossible to go forward to meet yourself. Not only that, but your spirit, is the same spirit forwards or backwards. You have certain karma that must be exhausted first. If your spirit could assume parallel paths in parallel planes they would likely remain separate. They would be parallel current moments, not futures. I don't believe this exists.

The ideas of someone going back and meeting their grandfather and killing them and not being born is not an example of how vastly cleaver and intelligent someone must be to understand the subject (the superman Einstein myth), but how fooling and illogical and unnatural the idea of time travel is in the first place.

It is a basic fact of life that the more ridiculous and idea the more attractive it can be for the mind. But the minds engagement and entertaining itself usually has nothing to do with reality.



posted on Feb, 15 2010 @ 06:46 PM
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Fascinating interview with Michio Kaku.

Speaking about his new book "Physics of the Impossible," Dr. Kaku explains with how Physics one day may allow us to go back in time.

Humorous, enlightening, and thought provoking.

Amazing.
www.youtube.com...
Is time travel possible? Theoretical physicist and 2057 host Michio Kaku explores the possibilities.
www.youtube.com...
www.scribd.com...
This man times travel and has proof
www.youtube.com...

[edit on 15-2-2010 by DCDAVECLARKE]



posted on Feb, 15 2010 @ 06:56 PM
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I might add that Time Travel and the concept of a worm hole have nothing in common. The spirit and the body could conceivable move at much faster than normal rates and cover vast distances. However, folded space is yet another oxymoron as clearly you can not fold space without having a dramatic impact on life and the creation is being managed with a strong propensity for conservation of energy. Natural means of long distance travel would exist, not abnormal brute force man made means.



posted on Feb, 15 2010 @ 07:15 PM
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reply to post by ReelView
 


Forms of time travel are basically everywhere. Time is real. We are going forward in it right now. The hard part is going back. Well like Einstein said time is relative. But I guess what is foolish for you might not be foolish for me. What I am trying to say is "It pays to be open minded ,but not so open that your brain falls out"-Carl Sagan.(I think)



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