Team Obama - Ready.... Fire.... Aim!............ Retreat!!!

reply to post by JBA2848


No. You don't understand. The GOP is FOR killing terrorists with the
predator drones. I hope Obama kills them all.
Also i do not want Obama put on trial for war crimes because of
collateral damage .

reply to post by whatukno
You must be a college professor, or a sophmore. You are playing hard and fast with the definition of words. In this case, torture. They were scaring them, and no permanent harm done. Unlike their own societies beheading of US! Course, that is not by your definition, torture. So it must be OK.

Explanation:

Retreat??? :shk: He's not retreating at all! Its an ADVANCE in the opposite direction!

Personal Disclosure: Don't get outflanked now OK!

reply to post by Eurisko2012
I don't get it; you want the Muslim Communist to kill his fellow terrorists? I also want that scumbag to be publically tried and humiliated, but only in a larger picture of his fraud, and his posing as an American when he in fact is not and can not prove it to even a childs' satisfaction. A reasonable child, granted, as we have many unreasonable children haunting this site. But when he is exposed and humiliated, it will be many years before the legal fallout will be all settled. All he has ever said or done as president will be null and void. Including all his appointments, his many executive orders, and his foreign diplomacy, including humbling himself before foreign rulers. He is clearly working under the protection of the head rebel alien, Lucifer, and is perhaps Lucifers' direct descendent, as is also likely of his COUSIN George W. and a few other top US officials. Can you say Nepotism? Jesus has already won this war, and Obama/Bush have lost. This current history is just the details.

reply to post by Eurisko2012


Again, you refuse to answer my question, but I'll play your game.

I never said I wanted Bush to go on trial. If he did, I honestly think he had little to do with it. He was told it would happen, and told he would be killed. Hell, they could have assassinated him on the very day if he said he'd call them out, but he wanted to make daddy happy so he kept his trap shut. That's what I think his involvement in 9/11 was.

Back to topic, I've never seen someone so eager to derail their thread. Care to answer my question from earlier? I wanna know why you think it is a good idea to try these guys at Gitmo.

Originally posted by iamsupermanv2
reply to post by Eurisko2012

 

Again, you refuse to answer my question, but I'll play your game.

I never said I wanted Bush to go on trial. If he did, I honestly think he had little to do with it. He was told it would happen, and told he would be killed. Hell, they could have assassinated him on the very day if he said he'd call them out, but he wanted to make daddy happy so he kept his trap shut. That's what I think his involvement in 9/11 was.

Back to topic, I've never seen someone so eager to derail their thread. Care to answer my question from earlier? I wanna know why you think it is a good idea to try these guys at Gitmo.

We have to try them somewhere.
I'll take Gitmo.
It's also the cheapest place to do it.
Does that make sense?

reply to post by Eurisko2012


It'd also be cheaper to do a lot of things different in the government, but it doesn't happen.

If you can't tell, I think that's a flimsy excuse.

I'm sure citizens would be ok with spending money on this trial if it helps bring light to this case.

Also, military trials are done differently and we will NEVER know what happened in it. That is my problem. This man supposedly put every single American in danger. I deserve to know what went through his head.

So, what is your reason, despite money. Because we have proven something as a country that money doesn't matter. It's a flimsy excuse at best.

[edit on 2/12/2010 by iamsupermanv2]

reply to post by iamsupermanv2


OK, here is another.
KSM won't find out sensitive information through "discovery" part of the trial.
------------------------------------------------------------
All the democrats are FOR the Gitmo trial.
Eventually, the decision will be made for the Gitmo trial.
Team Obama is just dragging their feet.

Originally posted by whatukno
reply to post by Eurisko2012

 

Why is it a mistake? Because a Right wing pundit told you it was a mistake? Or maybe like Walkswithfish, and iamsupermanv2 stated, it's a compromise and would open the door for the previous administration to be shown as the war criminals they are.

You might have a point, if this were true.

The governor of the State (Dem.), the mayor of NYC (Rep.) and the people of New York DID NOT WANT the trial there. This wasn't a "compromise." If so, what was given up and gained?

The Obama Administration hasn't committed to ANY change of venue yet. Holder has that call, and he won;t make it.

Obama says he will help resolve the conflict, but since when does a President get to choose venue for a criminal trial? Last I heard, the Justice Department made legal decisions, and the White House made policy and political decisions.

Everything about Gitmo has been a farce in this administration from day one. Even before his inauguration, Obama was making promises he could not legally or factually deliver on.

Only his faithful ever believed this.

Compromise? You're only fooling yourselves. The joke has been on you since 2008, and all Americans have to pay for it.

And if Holder had law in his favor, and the balls or the evidence, he could indict anyone of the previous administration. He's got none of any of them.

Deny ignorance.

jw

reply to post by Eurisko2012


I find that a terrible excuse as well. Why not just lay out all of the reasons you are against it, instead of spoon feeding. It's much better that way.

The reason politicians (not just Dems or Reps, but all) will not support this is because it has be skewed as a terrible idea to try him in NYC. They speak for it, they don't get elected. It's politics. (a terrible reason, but it's the truth)

Also, do you find it necessary to make an anti Obama statement every post? I say this not because I find them childish and stupid, but because it does zero to help your cause and shows that you are interested in playing partisan games. We are supposed to be having a debate about issues, not about being anti one person or another.

As I have said, it is degrading to this forum, it's degrading to the system, and helps no one. It is part of the problem not the solution, so please Talk the issues. Leave your personal feelings on the man out of it. Please.

(side note, I am no Obama apologist, I have been as critical as the next guy. As I am of any politician speaking on my behalf.)

reply to post by jdub297


I think I may be able to clarify a bit...

Maybe not "Compromise" in the purest meaning of the word, but, to me, it seems like he is willing to figure whats going on, what sides want what, and then doing his best to influence.

Like you said, he has no control, something I forgot there for a minute, so thank you for bringing that up.

Maybe compromise is the wrong word. Oh well.

I also fail to understand the Schadenfreud here. Ideally, KSM should be tried in a civilian court on US soil. Unfortunately, there are two tiers of concern that are rendering this difficult. The first is actually quite reasonable: the huge number of media earth stations clustered around the court house would lead to traffic problems. NYC understands the pain of closing even one city block for an indefinite period of time. The second is completely irrational, and related to the resistance of certain states to having terrorists jailed in maximum security prisons in their jurisdiction. Apparently, terrorists like KSM are capable of bending the bars of their cells with their teeth, leaping out, and stomping buildings flat like Godzilla... or at least that is the impression I'm getting. There are non-urban areas near NYC that might be appropriate for eliminating the traffic issues. As for the secondary concern... I don't know... anti-psychotics, perhaps? In any event, I do find it strange that some people view pragmatism as a sign of weakness. As Sun-Tze would say: "Choose your battles."

reply to post by iamsupermanv2

it seems like he is willing to figure whats going on, what sides want what, and then doing his best to influence.

"It seems like" is a personal feeling or conclusion; not necessarily based on facts, though.

"Willing to figure [out] what is going on?" He ranted about Gitmo TWO YEARS ago to get himself elected. He's had an entire section of his staff on this since BEFORE he took office. He fired the lead attorney! How long does he need to figure out why the NUMBER ONE TARGET, KSM, is being "detained" and to what purpose? I thought he already knew!

"What sides want what" is NOT how the "justice system" works; that is politics. He and Holder agreed that the "JUSTICE" dept. should handle these prisoners, rather than (the hated) military corpse-men. That is a legal call, not a political one. All of this is just more incessant pandering and campaigning from the candidate-in-chief.

"Doing his best to influence?" "Justice?" A "CRIMINAL" proceeding? If this wasn't so obviously meant as a joke, it would be astonishingly ignorant.

Do you really want someone in absolute power (which Obama believes he has) trying to "influence" legal proceedings YOU might be involved in? Do you want THEM determining where your case should be heard, instead of the LAW?

Ever heard of the Federal Rules of Criminal Procedure? Federal Rules of Evidence? U.S.Code? U.S. Constitution?

All of this just sort of concedes that Obama is above all those, which is why he has been given free reign to trash our markets, education system, health insurance, creditors' rights, and NOW, the criminal justice system.

You seem to think that this is all politics, when it is really about Rule of Law. Obama believes he is above that, and "it seems like" that's OK with you.

Deny ignorance!

jw

Originally posted by Eurisko2012
reply to post by iamsupermanv2

 

George W. Bush ... will never go on trial. Just get over it.
Change your tune.

Random arrests of innocent people, common in the UK will soon spread over here. Just get over it.
Change your tune.

Your pension and kids college fund will go in the forthcoming stock market crash. Just get over it.
Change your tune.

The final indefinite suspension of Congress will occur within a year or two. Just get over it.
Change your tune.

Martial Law and death camps are about to happen. Just get over it.
Change your tune.

Telling the truth will soon be illegal. Just get over it.
Change your tune.

Having kids tell rumors about their parents to have them sent to death camps will soon begin to occur. Just get over it.
Change your tune.

Involuntary euthanasia for anyone over the age of 70 will soon be introduced to save money. Just get over it.
Change your tune.



[edit on 12-2-2010 by aristocrat2]

reply to post by jdub297


I think Holder was told to move KSM to NYC.
TPTB on the liberal side told Obama to move KSM so they could
go after George W. Bush and Dick Cheney.
They don't care about KSM.
Obama and Holder have already declared KSM guilty.
They just want to use KSM to get to Bush.
Obama told Holder to move KSM to New York City BUT wait until
i'm on vacation.
The whole thing has blown up in their faces.
KSM will stay in Gitmo.
Gitmo will NEVER close.
Team Obama is in full damage control mode now.

[edit on 13-2-2010 by Eurisko2012]

reply to post by Eurisko2012


Why do you expect Obama to do things differently than any other President?

Does it matter that during the Bush years almost 300 terror suspects were tried and convicted by the US judicial system?

And how many terror suspects have been convicted and are in custody after having a military trial?

ONE.

We are a nation of laws. This is our greatest pride and what separates us from other nations. We will always be a nation of laws unless the barbaric insanity and madness of our enemies rubs off on us, or we take a lesson from them and revert to an unruly mob, a nation of hangmen.

Then we will be as bad as our enemies.
And won't it be then?

[edit on 13-2-2010 by rusethorcain]

Originally posted by rusethorcain
reply to post by Eurisko2012

 

Why do you expect Obama to do things differently than any other President?

Because he promised to?

Does it matter that during the Bush years almost 300 terror suspects were tried and convicted by the US judicial system?

Really? Who? Where? When? Foreign terrorists? Domestic "terrorists" like right-to lifers and returning servicemen and women, as Napolitano described?

Aside from Reid, the shoe-bomber, Moussaoui, McVeigh, Nichols and a handful of "plotters" like Padilla, set up by the FBI, who are these 300?

At the National Archives, Obama assured us that our federal "supermax" prisons hold "hundreds of terrorists."

AG Holder promised the Democrat-led Judiciary Committee last November to provide a list. He hasn't done it yet. An asst. AG told Congress "A number of individuals with a history of, or nexus to, international or domestic terrorism are currently being held in federal prisons."
www.washingtonexaminer.com...

"A number?" "Related to?"

jw

reply to post by jdub297


"Because he promised to???"
I don't think he promised to change our judicial system or the values we hold as a country. He didn't promise to change the way we try criminals, or enemy combatants.

Military tribunals do no better than civilian courts. They have convicted exactly three people and 2 of them were released.
You are simply playing the alarmist card (admittedly getting people scared and worked up over this because they do not know the pertinent facts either) otherwise you have a political agenda to make this administration look like they are acting radically and beyond the bounds of law and reason, which is untrue.

You do know that the underwear guys FATHER turned him in to the US Embassy as a possible threat ? Do you think we have a hope of that scenario ever playing out again if we fry this young man.
And truthfully, when I see his pictures on television - I feel sorry for him.
He is a child. Nothing but a scared, bored, misguided child.
You can demonize him all you want but anyone can see this was a brainwashed kid. No mastermind. Can you say Patty Hearst?

Reign in the dope dealers and the addicts they feed will vanish.

RE those tried and convicted in US courts, the Rachael Maddow show 2/2/10 featured GWB mentioning a few hundred of them himself, but I am afraid I do not know all the names -sorry. Why not expand your information sources and reading material and check these sites out for another take on this matter.


www.humanrightsfirst.org...

seminal.firedoglake.com...

motorcityliberal.blogspot.com...

Originally posted by iamsupermanv2
...so this time obama is wrong because he worth with the other side and gave them what they wanted?

That was my first thought. If Obama stands his ground, he's being political, partisan and stubborn. If he makes a compromise or concedes a point, he's weak.

Did anyone read the full article? ANYONE?

reply to post by Benevolent Heretic


That's just it. Obama should not of told Holder to move KSM to NYC
in the first place.
Obama is stuck in a box now.
--------------------------------------
I have never seen ALL democrats away run so fast from an issue.
They ALL say try KSM in Gitmo.
Blow $200 Million a year for a show trial in NYC just to go after Bush?
What were they thinking?