Will We Continue to Live Once We Die?

Living After dying?

…Is that a crazy comment, major bout of truth or just wishful thinking??

Personally I like to think that living after dying has some truth to it, although I am not a follower of any religion etc. So am I right in saying that one of the biggest/most major part of living is in fact dying?

Again is that such a crazy thought to have/believe in…

So the reason I believe that those things above MAY be true is because…..

I don’t like the idea of or quite frankly can remotely understand why some people (IMO very few people) in this world don’t believe in anything, or consider dying an end to everyone and everything.

Because of my beliefs in the paragraph above I have to think what is there, what can there be, simply what truly is dying, Is it an end, is it a beginning, is it just a another chapter in a universal novel going from one to the next and so on.


Science also has a point of view on life after death and IMO was a little surprising…

Dr. Ken Ring published a paper in the Journal of Near-Death Studies (Summer, 1993) concerning near-death experiencers who, while out of their bodies, witness real events that occur far away from their dead body.

The important aspect to this phenomenon is that these events seen far away are later verified to be true. Experiencers not only witness events from great distances, but they have been documented to hear conversations between people at the same events.

Conversations such as these have also verified to be true. An even more fascinating phenomenon occurs when the experiencer actually appears in spirit to someone, usually a loved one, during their NDE and it is verified to be true by the experiencer and the loved one.

It is evidence such as this, if scientifically controlled, that can provide absolute scientific proof that consciousness can exist outside of the body. A scientifically controlled NDE that can be repeated which provides such evidence would be the scientific discovery of all time. However, science does not yet have the exact tools to accomplish this. But, science is coming very, very close.

This kind of evidence and others provide very strong circumstantial evidence for the survival of consciousness.

www.near-death.com...


People have NDEs while they are brain dead.

Out-of-body perception during NDEs have been verified.

People born blind can see during an NDE.

NDEs demonstrate the return of consciousness from death.

The NDE study by Raymond Moody has been replicated.

Experimental evidence suggests that NDEs are real.

NDEs can be considered to be an objective experience.

NDEs have been validated in scientific studies.

Out-of-body experiences (OBEs) have been validated in scientific studies.

Autoscopy during NDEs have been validated in scientific studies.

A transcendental "sixth sense" of the human mind has been found.

NDEs support the "holonomic" theory of consciousness.

The expansion of consciousness reported in NDEs supports consciousness theories.

The brain's connection to a greater power has been validated by indisputable scientific facts.

The replication of NDEs using hallucinogenic drugs satisfies the scientific method.

NDEs are different from hallucinations.

The replication of NDEs using a variety of triggers satisfies the scientific method.

Apparitions of the deceased have been induced under scientific controls.

People having NDEs have brought back scientific discoveries.

NDEs have advanced the field of medical science.

NDEs have advanced the field of psychology.

NDEs correspond to the "quirky" principles found in quantum physics.

The transcendental nature of human consciousness during NDEs corresponds to principles found in quantum physics.

NDEs have advanced the fields of philosophy and religion.

NDEs have the nature of an archetypal initiatory journey.

People have been clinically dead for several days and report the most profound NDEs.

NDEs have produced visions of the future which later prove to be true.

Groups of dying people can share the same NDE.

Experiencers are convinced the NDE is an afterlife experience.

The NDEs of children are remarkably similar to adult NDEs.

[edit on 12-2-2010 by Rising Against]

Experiencers of NDEs are profoundly changed in ways that cannot occur from hallucinations and dreams.

NDEs cannot be explained merely by brain chemistry alone.

NDEs have been reported by people since the dawn of recorded history.

The skeptical "dying brain" theory of NDEs has serious flaws.

Skeptical arguments against the NDE "survival theory" are not valid.

The burden of proof has shifted to the skeptics of the survival theory.

Other anomalous phenomena supports the survival theory.

NDEs support the existence of reincarnation.

The scientific evidence supporting reincarnation also supports the survival theory.

Xenoglossy supports reincarnation and the survival theory.

Past-life regression supports reincarnation and the survival theory.

Contact with "the deceased" has occurred under scientific controls.

After-death communications have been reported by credible people.

Dream research supports the NDE and survival theory.

Deathbed visions support the NDE and survival theory.

Remote viewing supports the NDE and survival theory.

The efficacy of prayer has been demonstrated under scientific controls.

The "Scole Experiments" during the 1990s support the NDE and survival theory.

Electronic voice phenomena (EVP) supports the NDE and survival theory.

Prominent atheists have had NDEs which caused them to believe in the afterlife.

Psychometry supports the NDE and survival theory.

It should also be noted that you can find all of these links if you look into the original link I provided but I have split them up and added them all on this thread to make it a little bit more user friendly

Also it should be noted that I am not sure if all of the information is or has been conclusively proved correct but im under the assumption for now that they are and it was best to at least add them all instead of none at all

As great and helpful all of this information I, which is really is, It still for me doesn’t answer the one question I truly want answered, what really does happen to us when we die??


[edit on 12-2-2010 by Rising Against]

starred and flagged for effort alone. and always a worthy subject to speculate on.

ok, get the obvious out of the way. there is no absolute proof of continued conscious existance of a person once they die...

the hard facts are...we die, we rot. that we know already.

as far as everything else you posted, none of it proves life after death either, it simply shows anomolies, some that can be dismissed by natural brain functions, and some more interesting but open to interpretation.

too much to really go on...but ultimately if you limit yourself to just one answer, then you have successfully closed off a potential truth simply so you can be comforted in your preprogrammed bias to begin with.

may comment more later, but for now will poke through some of your lists to find anything of interest beyond lights at the end of tunnels.

reply to post by SaturnFX


You know I really couldn't agree more, science proves that we live then we die then the world moves on etc. That's about it but those anomalies are still pretty interesting and food for thought IMO

But I still can't stop rattling my brain over what happens when we die tough and i wonder if science will ever conclusively give an answer, Or then again do most of us really want to/should hear that answer is also another burning question IMO

God it's frustrating

Yes naturaly. The evidence abounds. Only the body dies so to speak.

Well according to the true history of man, yes you most assuredly will live after death. Part of being made in the Imago Dei is that you are made to live eternally. I am just happy that science is starting to catch up to what Christianity has known for years. I think God is allowing people to come back as a witness that YES you need to be thinking about these things because their is more to existence then the tiny little blip of say 80 years or so.

I think the real question here is who "We" are. The law of conservation says, "Matter/Energy cannot be created or destroyed, only changed". Maybe life after death is as simple as that. "WE" don't live after death, but everything that makes us what we were goes on to be something else or part of something else. It's an attachment to the self that makes one think it is eternal. It's not YOU who lives forever but what makes you, you that is eternal.

S&F! Great subject and great info you've dug up! IMO evidence leans towards only the death of the body. Again great subject!

Well since the definition of life is to have a breathing body once you die your body is dead.

No you won't continue to live after you die.

Will your soul still exist after your body dies.

You will have to wait to find that out.

reply to post by Rising Against


I think if we found absolute proof of life after death, it would be a incredible disaster....Consider for the moment some senarios

Paradise for everyone = Good and evil, doesnt matter, once you die, you goto some heavenly wonderful place with rainbows and ice cream for all...this would allow you to live without any regard for consequences (since life is temporary),....if you even chose to live to begin with. The second any challenge comes along, just off yourself. Extinction level event.

Paradise for some = Heaven and hell is real, we know how to get into heaven. People simply stop being people and live life like they are putting in a cheat code of a video game, never doing anything spontanious, never questioning and trying new ways...it would become a flavorless robotic life experience.

Reincarnation = Hmm...this life I was born into crappy circumstances...time to reload (suicide). Also, if you can find out who you were without a doubt in a previous life, would you be accountable for your crimes from the previous life...especially if you simply suicided your way out before punishment for the crimes happened...

etc

I think we need to live like athiests (this is all we got, try to make it good for everyone), hope like religious, and believe like agnostics.

Originally posted by SaturnFX
reply to post by Rising Against

 

I think if we found absolute proof of life after death, it would be a incredible disaster....Consider for the moment some senarios

Paradise for everyone = Good and evil, doesnt matter, once you die, you goto some heavenly wonderful place with rainbows and ice cream for all...this would allow you to live without any regard for consequences (since life is temporary),....if you even chose to live to begin with. The second any challenge comes along, just off yourself. Extinction level event.

Paradise for some = Heaven and hell is real, we know how to get into heaven. People simply stop being people and live life like they are putting in a cheat code of a video game, never doing anything spontanious, never questioning and trying new ways...it would become a flavorless robotic life experience.

Reincarnation = Hmm...this life I was born into crappy circumstances...time to reload (suicide). Also, if you can find out who you were without a doubt in a previous life, would you be accountable for your crimes from the previous life...especially if you simply suicided your way out before punishment for the crimes happened...

etc

I think we need to live like athiests (this is all we got, try to make it good for everyone), hope like religious, and believe like agnostics.

Saturn,
it's been pretty apparent that you are a firm believer in the "moral atheist." However, this just doesn't corrolate with reality. Maybe you have convinced yourself that believing in the here and now will actually make one live in cooperation with fellow man, but your world view is scued. Columbine comes to mind. They were convinced of the survival of the fittest phylosophy. They took this belief to it's logical and honest conclusion. That is "we should kill the weak and useless of the world." Hey, and then we will just off ourselves and LOL no consequences for us. No Hell, No Heaven, we just don't exist anymore. I mean if there is nothing after this life and your life just really really sucks, then why not commit suicide. I mean nothingness is better then suffering. With your world view life is only worth living if there is someting to live for. What if you where starving, dehydrated and being totured and believed that there was a way out because you can stop existing by killing yourself. I would much rather not exist then live in torture. Wouldn't you? I think it is easy to be an atheist when you have three hots and a cot. Try living in the Hell of a third world country and telling yourself that you should make the most of your life because this is all you have.

[edit on 12-2-2010 by trueperspective]

But SaturnFX has a point. Even though I believe in some kind of energy or some kind of awareness after death, Saturn is basically right. If we knew about the afterlife, our race would not survive. A gunshot to the head is so fast and quick everyone would be doing it. I think we need to live like athiests (this is all we got, try to make it good for everyone), hope like religious, and believe like agnostics.

That being said, more research into the afterlife is a must. To many atheists/scientists put off research for numerous reasons, not believing, not getting funding.

reply to post by trueperspective


Moral athiest is the way to go imo. (incidently, I am agnostic...athiesm was too religious for my tastes)

Colombine...hmm..ok, so a entire mentality is decided upon by what a couple extreme examples produce....ok, then lets consider who has done more harm and evil in the world...the athiests or the...oh, lets take any religion...christianity comes to mind, lets go with that

Hitler = christian
Therefore, by your example...all christians are Hitlers.


If you disagree that all christians view life in the same way that hitler did, then the rest of your arguement about athiests outlooks is also dismissed.

As far as better to not exist than to exist in pain...I agree there also actually. but it would have to be some serious pain to go into the void willingly and with absolutely no chance whatsoever of it ending. You dont have to be a athiest to believe that however.

[edit on 12-2-2010 by SaturnFX]

reply to post by SaturnFX


Well, I thnk your conterargument is flawed because Killing the weak is the logical and consistent living out of the atheistic world view. (Hence, abortion and euthanasia.) However, not to get off topic, knowing of an afterlife in the way you argued could be just as volitile as knowing that their is no afterlife. Like if you are deranged and want to kill someone knowing that you will most likely get caught and go to jail for life or maybe face the death penelty. If someone in that position knew there was nothing left after this life. I would say, "I'm going out on my terms." BOOM.

Originally posted by trueperspective
reply to post by SaturnFX

 

Well, I thnk your conterargument is flawed because Killing the weak is the logical and consistent living out of the atheistic world view. (Hence, abortion and euthanasia.) However, not to get off topic, knowing of an afterlife in the way you argued could be just as volitile as knowing that their is no afterlife. Like if you are deranged and want to kill someone knowing that you will most likely get caught and go to jail for life or maybe face the death penelty. If someone in that position knew there was nothing left after this life. I would say, "I'm going out on my terms." BOOM.

yes, whereas we need to be killing the morally corrupt and evil, from bombs at abortion clinics, the jews, the muslims, etc...cause God likes that.

and as far as the whole suicide before arrested...let me point you in the direction of the middle east and all those fine people blowing themselves up...knowing they are going to heaven for their sacrifice.

Now...imagine one more thing...imagine finding out without a doubt that there is no afterlife...none...all religions are false..its dead then black. How would the world look with no religion...no holy books to say who is right/wrong...no fearmongering clerics or pastors, none of that...imagine a world where everyone knew that the only immortality we will ever attain is what we leave to the people..our legacy...

woudnt that be a cool place to live? I think so personally. It would of course be a bit more sad if/when a loved one dies to not even speculate about continued existance, but the upside to that is that we would seriously consider cloning extensions, brain transplants, etc etc etc...a massive effort globally to try and extend the quantity and quality of life would be undertaken...create heaven here on earth.

It is the dreamer of all us athiests/agnostics to discard promise of heaven when we die so we can create heaven while we live...but until the people get over their diety worshipping in mass and retard scientific progress in the name of spooky space ghosts disapproving our actions, then we are simply stuck riding on this crappy boat of human fear with the rest of you lot.

reply to post by SaturnFX


I have searched the NT and I don't find a place that says God is pleased when we kill others. But you said it best. You want Heaven on Earth. The idea that man can create for himself eternal life. No war, no fear, no death. It is a lofty and good thing to want, but it will never happen in this life. There are too many self centered people for that. Mans emotions are out of control. Mans heart when unchecked seeks evil. I know that you are probably a very responsible and courteous person. However, I wish that you could see that man is naturally selfish, greedy, and murderous. Religion is not the cause of that. Mans nature is the cause of corrupted religion. Only in the afterlife will all of these things be worked out. Only then can things be fixed.

I disagree that people would be any more selfish, greedy, or murderous if life after death were proven false. The reason being that there are plenty of selfish, greedy, and murderous people already in the world. Some of them disregard the possibility of an afterlife, some of them just don't care one way or the other. Those people aren't going to change if hopes of an afterlife were dashed.

So, those people taken out of the equation, I think the majority of the rest are genuinely goodhearted people. Sure you'll have a few who see this newfound freedom as an opportunity to steal, scam, and murder, but it's not going to affect society as a whole.

reply to post by trueperspective


how can you honestly say that god isnt pleased of killings, when all your religion is based on christ sacrifice of his naked body infront of everyone like an animal feast dinner to god, that even himself shout his voice to justify biblic words by saying come one eat me and be pleased of my death as the only sense of your life gift given to you from god

S&F

For making me smile Finding out this is not just on of many.
( Question. IMO, Stands for In my opinion. Right ? Just to be sure. Correct me if I'm wrong. )

Lets see...
Energy will always be, one way or another. As for us. The first benefactors are maggots and other disgusting little buggers, feeding on your corpse.

However there is proof of losing 2 Milli grams of weight, when death kicks in. Some believe it is your soul, leaving the body. It could be anything IMO. ( or of correct IMO use? )

Death is a state of mind very hard to see or think about. How could a self awareness possibly it is no longer aware. Nothing. I personally can't grasp of what it could be like. As it's impossible to do. Perhaps this is the reason for the believe of an afterlife.

Research shows suicidal people think different because of a different brain. All the indoctrination I experienced, leads me to absolutely sleep on it. Again and again and again. Their is no misery in existence for risking your eternal soul, would hell be real. IMO anyway.

I am following another thread on something similar. So I just thought about it for a while.
IMO, People feel like their is life after death. The need for answers leads us to all religious stupidity and assumptions dogma and fear, of our invisible friend or deity. Not believing in an afterlife, is just like believe in it. It's the easy way. Not feeling stressed out or fear the future.


Nicely done

it's been pretty apparent that you are a firm believer in the "moral atheist." However, this just doesn't correlate with reality. Maybe you have convinced yourself that believing in the here and now will actually make one live in cooperation with fellow man, but your world view is Scud. Columbine comes to mind. They were convinced of the survival of the fittest philosophy. They took this belief to it's logical and honest conclusion. That is "we should kill the weak and useless of the world." Hey, and then we will just off ourselves and LOL no consequences for us. No Hell, No Heaven, we just don't exist anymore. I mean if there is nothing after this life and your life just really really sucks, then why not commit suicide. I mean nothingness is better then suffering. With your world view life is only worth living if there is something to live for. What if you where starving, dehydrated and being tortured and believed that there was a way out because you can stop existing by killing yourself. I would much rather not exist then live in torture. Wouldn't you? I think it is easy to be an atheist when you have three hots and a cot. Try living in the Hell of a third world country and telling yourself that you should make the most of your life because this is all you have.

What a ridiculous reply !

As if every atheist feels like killing or survival of the fittest apply on everything in life. Delusional assumptions my friend.
Atheism is usually a way of life because of the ability of thinking for themselves. This requires intelligence. What also results in their understanding of life. Or vice verse. Science is cause and consequence for atheism to exist.
Survival of the fittest is a well known myth for the existence of life and it,s diversity. It is not a primary cause for evolution ! It's more of a consequential result the probability is raised slightly to spread there genes in the world. If you miss a leg, you loose from a fitter ( two legged person ) on twister for example.
Assuming you are religious you will maybe not like my next point.

Sex ! Yes sex. Is the primary evolution source. Way faster and way more without uncertain coincidencia.
Females choose their partner usually the best and biggest male will do.

This has an immediate effect on the offspring passing on favourable qualities.
As it is more important to reproduce then to only survive. Animals exist which are most likely the losers of survival of the fittest.

All their beauty is caused by favourable qualities. Simply said. If you're ugly you ain't getting any.

People who are certain of afterlife existence. although never before, start thinking about the consequences of it. Like hell. The risk will no longer be waved away.
Their will also be peoples who just don't care. Survival of the soul is a real mood killer when confronted it is true.

That's why Christianity is based on the idea of. Don't worry f*ck it up all you like. Learn about sin first hand. It's evil what makes you sin.
Believe in me And you will be forgiven. The devil made you do it.

Based on experience, being raised Christian. Realising they are the most guilty of hypocrisy. of all.
For sin are a bad thing but believing in their savior to forgive just believe and you can get away with incest, child abuse(sexually) murder, mass murder, genocide. You will be forgiven.
Blaming you're evil doing on the devil. What is the most hypocritical false and idiot assumption you can make.

Even if the devil exists. It is written in the bible. even the first part Genesis. He merely opened the gate for evil to occur. To be aware of evil creates choice... As evil is not separate but a unity of good and evil is what you are.

So this means your denial of atheist morality being right. is of no concern. Evil is within you and a choice will be made. Only a little bit more conscious and difficult.

Living day by day making the most of it is wonderful. Each day brings new possibilities, you can help someone and feel good about it even possible to receive help when you need it.

Killing people is not Atheist thinking !! Live is to short and precious to steal and destroy.
Only religion makes afterlife an excuse for murder.
Perfect example. Suicide bomber.Believes his murdering infidel will be honorable and gifted withe some virgins.

You're reply actually makes what he says perfectly true and proof of people acting like idiots without any good reason. Do to the choice they have and what the risk they attache is worth choosing wrong.

Sorry folks IMO I felt to tell him my opinion.
I for one would rather exist because I don't get anther turn on it. Stepping out is weak. The fittest will be the loser every time. Failing miserable on survival.

To make my opinion complete. I do believe in God ( loving, nurturing, mother like ) energy among us. And afterlife isn't even questioned. I'm unable to imagining there is not. I don't deny it and it is a possible

reply to post by SaturnFX


Afterlife or not this on goes for first place.

hope like religious, and believe like agnostics.
Although I'd change religious for spiritual.As it's religion what makes it's followers religious.

Religion uses spiritual believe for control. Every dag I see it does an excellent job doing so.
For a loving and righteous forgiving God. Religion gives him to much of man's worsted characteristics. Explaining them by saying we are not capable of understanding.

An eternity of love and piece would be boring but yeah.
An eternity of the righteous deeds I've read in the bible. Pff... To violent.

Afterlife does not exist ?
It would make my life less stressful and feared.
I do now without 100 % proof of it, Always find myself confronted with consequences learned from religion.If there's time to think over my next move I will not proceed, thinking it is an evil choice.