Snuffed Out: Smokers Need Not Apply

Well, one Parma Ohio Hospital is making it even THAT much harder for unemployed people to obtain work: On March 1st, 2010, they are implementing an employment policy: They won't hire you if you smoke.

www.woio.com...

"Reinforcing its commitment to the wellness of both its employees and the community, Parma Community General Hospital will no longer hire smokers, effective March 1st.
"Wellness is a choice and a personal responsibility," said Larry Jeffries, senior director of
Human Resources at Parma Hospital. "Parma Hospital wants its employees to model the
healthy behaviors we teach our patients."

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You have to kidding. (Before anyone wonders, no I do not smoke cigarettes).

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"Employees hired prior to March 1, 2010, will not be affected by the change. Those seeking
employment will be required to take a nicotine test as part of the pre-employment physical
examination. The result of the test must be negative. Any job candidate who incurs a positive
result will be offered smoking cessation resources and may be reconsidered 90 days later if
their retest is negative."

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The article goes on to say this is part of Parma's overall emphasis on HEALTHY employees.

I do not even know where to begin on this.

One, I think any kind of restrictions on legal activities is infringing on my constitutional rights. It is not illegal to smoke. I may find it a hideous habit, but these kind of policies reek of something more than stale smoke.

Well, HotbakedT, you may say, what is the big deal? It is REFRESHING to see a corporation care about its employees health this way, and besides Hot, it is a HOSPITAL!! They would be HYPOCRITES if they did not implement this type of policy. Besides Tater, smokers can go work else where.

All good points, I have to agree.

But is forcing ALL employees to comply with this really the way to go? I could POSSIBLY see asking a DR or nurse not to smoke (while at work). But who cares if your janitor smokes when they clock out? Or the guys who mow the grounds? And let's be honest. I would rather my nurse or DR smoke to relieve stress than get hooked on pills or booze like SO MANY do, then compromise my care under the influence. I do not think I have ever heard of some ones smoking habit interfering with the care they give.

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Facts About Parma OH Here

According to the city-data link here, it looks like Parma's unemployment has been rising just like the rest of the country. (there is a graph, scroll down a bit). The page has many facts about the city.

And according to THIS PAGE'S GRAPH, health care industry employees 25 percent of this town's population.

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Now I find this type of policy to be the height of hypocrisy. Why?

Because they are still hiring people who:

drive without a seatbelt
eat a Big Mac
drink alcohol
do not floss
do not exercise
do not get pap smears

Are they going to test for Big Mac residue, too? Because if they do not, then they are hypocrites.

All of the above activities have been known to end to in death for some people.

To me this smacks of yet another attempt to hide behind the ITS FOR YOUR HEALTH (OWN GOOD) mantra to in essence force those who want employment into complying with what to me is a hypocritical and illegal stripping of a right! It is a right to engage in a legal activity.

I see many many more bandwagon jumpers in this area, and I see this hospital setting a trend, and it is not good.

If the hospitals can get away with it by invoking the ITS FOR YOUR OWN GOOD mantra, who will invoke it next?

This is not a debate about whether or not smoking is or is not bad for you/kill you. It IS a debate about the further erosion of our rights, on grain of sand at a time.

Thoughts?

and well, I betcha - Smokers only need apply - is coming and you know what a person who smokes and is working in what he or she likes to do is well twice as productive as say a non-smoker.... care to wager... ?

Since I am a conspiracy theorists, I don't believe the policy has anything to do with caring about its employees health.

I think it has to do with money. I wonder if the government offers any kind of incentive$ to have a nonsmoking staff. At any rate, Parma Hospital is facing some stiff fees this year:

www.cleveland.com...

"Franchise fee’s impact in Parma

At Parma Community General Hospital, the new statewide hospital assessment isn’t devastating but it will have an impact.

“It’s one additional item we have to deal with,” said Barry Franklin, PCGH’s chief financial officer.

Franklin said the assessment will take about $2.5 million out of PCGH’s annual budget. The hospital’s yearly revenues are about $200 million.

Franklin said PCGH has laid off staff over the past couple of years to reduce costs but no layoffs are planned due to the hospital assessment, and the hospital doesn’t plan to cut back on services.

PCGH may look for additional revenues by asking health insurance carriers to pay more, Franklin said "
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I figured this no smoking employee was a trend.

www.fiercehealthcare.com...


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Can smoker's fight back?

"Smokers who face discrimination may attempt to find refuge under Title I of the Americans with Disabilities Act of 1990 (ADA). 4 To be covered under the ADA's employment discrimination provisions, a smoker would have to show that he is addict ed to nicotine and that this addiction qualifies as a disability that merits protection from employment discrimination."

you are missing the bigger picture... notice Walgrens and CVS are on just about every corner... why? it is clear those stores do not turn a profit... so how can they just be popping up on every street corner... and they have drugs... think about .... when retail collapses and it will shortly.... why is CVS and Walgrens carrying everything including food and drugs... and why is every CVS and Walgrens within walking distance and why do these competing firms carry the same merchandise and very little that seperates the stores their layouts - there products ---- something bigger is a foot...

Well, this isn't looking good for smoker's who want to fight this kind of discrimination. A man has already sued for this in another state, and lost.

www.littler.com...


"In a victory for employers with mandatory wellness initiatives, a Massachusetts federal judge has dismissed a lawsuit by an employee who had started work, but whose employment, contingent on successful completion of a nicotine test, was terminated after he tested positive for nicotine. The decision, Rodrigues v. EG Systems, Inc. d/b/a Scotts LawnService, Civil No. 07-10104-GAO (D. Mass., Jul. 23, 2009), may have far-reaching implications for employers that want to increase the overall health and productivity of their workforce, and potentially lower health care costs, by having a non-smoking workforce."




I would be willing to bet there is a financial gain for businesses who implement a nonsmoker employee policy. Federal grants, lower insurance costs, something. I know this movement is NOT about our health, big business DOES NOT CARE about us.

I for one smoke and I'm thinking of quitting soon if the government really does put on the tax they are proposing.

the tax where I live is 7 cents a pack. They are trying to raise it to 2 dollars.

Why any job would require that you don't smoke I got no clue. I have worked at places that said I couldn't smoke if I was on the clock. Its just a bunch of politics I guess. We will find out soon enough.

Originally posted by Pajjikor
I for one smoke and I'm thinking of quitting soon if the government really does put on the tax they are proposing.

the tax where I live is 7 cents a pack. They are trying to raise it to 2 dollars.

Why any job would require that you don't smoke I got no clue. I have worked at places that said I couldn't smoke if I was on the clock. Its just a bunch of politics I guess. We will find out soon enough.

And I have no problem with an employer asking you to not smoke at all during your shift, and not providing smoking areas. But to dictate you cannot engage in legal activity OFF the clock?

THAT is what disturbs me about this TREND.

It is uniting my free time and my employment, one more line blurred for civil rights and freedom.

Smokers normally try to take more breaks than non smokers, they are usually less productive, and easily agitated if something goes wrong while they are having a craving. The county I live In doesn't allow smoking at the workplace period. more and more towns are also becoming smoke free.

Yeah i think it becomes a problem when you aren't allowed to do something like OP said in your free time 'off the clock' you should be entilted to do whatever you want in your spare time (that's legal obviously).

I don't smoke personally, and i was never a fan of smokers at my old work - why, because as a non-smoker i found it extremley unfair to have to be the one to hold up the shop while my co-workers went on 5-10 minute breaks together to have a fag about once an hour. When i would only get my one 10min break and lunch for a whole shift - it was enough to get me to want to take it up just for the free break!

At my fiance's work they have problems with a couple of smokers who won't stop going out for breaks (we are talking about once-twice an hour) stopping production of picking and packing warehouse orders, causing pickups and deliveries to be late, so i can see from that perspective, how some companies are sick of it and don't want to deal with it anymore.

^ but like i said, i think it's fair to ask people not to smoke in work hours or in work uniform, but noone should be able to stop you from doing whats legally allowed in your own home/car/whatever.

Well, my brother and I have discussed this issue to great length in the past and guess what? They are going after other things as well.

When will businesses begin to weigh you? Oh, your bodyfat content is over 6%, sorry we cannot hire you.

How about, are you a coffee drinker. Studies have shown that caffeine can be detrimental to your health.

Soda drinker, sorry.
Eat bacon, nope.
Enjoy McDonalds every now and then? See ya.
Brown hair, sorry, long term studies show that brown hair individuals are lazy.

Now I am all for a company being able to hire whoever they like. My only concern with this is you and I know with the inevitable takeover of the health care field (plus all other businesses) by the government this is going to become common practice for everything.

1984 just a few years behind.

reply to post by Pseudools


Well you know what, I think they should make towns fat people free. Studies have shown overweight people cannot work as hard as smokers so I think we should make some rules on that.

Frelling people that want 1984 should also be banned from being in the US. I feel that right there would solve all of the US problems. That would get about 38% of the country thrown out and take care of ALL of the problems.

Parma is just catching up!! Finally! This is a very small and still independent non profit hospital, which is rare these days. This is also an important hospital in this community. A move like this will keep them competitive and will ultimately keep their costs down. Cheers to them. Parma needs this hospital.

The world renowned Cleveland Clinic has been paving the way.

To take further steps in preserving and improving the health of all
its employees and patients, Cleveland Clinic has recently
implemented a nonsmoking hiring policy requiring all job
applicants and individuals receiving appointments to take a
cotinine test during their pre-placement physical exam. This is a
pre-employment test only. The cotinine test will detect the
presence of nicotine in all forms of tobacco. Beginning
September 1, 2007, appointments that have been offered to
prospective residents and fellows who test positive will be
rescinded. Individuals who test positive will receive a referral to a
tobacco cessation program paid for by Cleveland Clinic. Those
individuals testing positive who test negative after 90 days may be
reconsidered for appointment at the discretion of the program
director should the residency position remain vacant.

my.clevelandclinic.org...

Hospitals all over the country are doing the same thing with great success!!!

Sorry smokers.

As with any smoking thread, we need a good dose of Vitamin BH.
Just to lighten the mood.

reply to post by hotbakedtater


Have you ever been closely handled by a nurse who just got back from a fresh smoke break? Yum Yum smells pretty good. The smoker never smells the stench of a fresh smoke break.

reply to post by pazcat


I forgot how funny Hicks was!! He died way before his time.

Originally posted by Pseudools
Smokers normally try to take more breaks than non smokers, they are usually less productive, and easily agitated if something goes wrong while they are having a craving. The county I live In doesn't allow smoking at the workplace period. more and more towns are also becoming smoke free.

What a wonderfully ignorant post. I smoke... I take my allotted breaks and lunch at work. I am the number 1 person in my department. You are missing the big picture here. The government needs to BUTT OUT. If you are a non-smoker, don't go to a smoking bar/restaurant. Smokers have just as much of a right to step outside and have a cigarette. If you don't like it, move around, plenty of other free space outside. Several places in my city of Indianapolis are like that, I just go outside, police have better things to do than to enforce no smoking. And please don't run for a government office, we don't need anymore control freaks in positions of power.

reply to post by hotbakedtater


If hospitals are going to stop hiring smokers; I want them to stop hiring over weight doctors and nurses. Obesity is just as much of a health risk and more of an epidemic.

But Mike, being overweight doesn't offend people's senses like smoke does. It doesn't effect other people. Well yes it does. Some people (not me) think overweight people are physically repulsive. Would it not effec a patient if an overweight/out of shape nurse can't perform part of her job.

If we are going to do these things we need to go all out and get everything. Leave no stone unturned.

Of course I am being sarcastic. I think this is insane.

I have nothing against smokers in general. However, the need to smoke makes smokers do things that non smokers do not.

Controlled work breaks only function in an environment closely governed by a time clock or work that is directly supervised. My wife works on the 48th floor of a high rise office building. Her coworkers are essentially free to break and eat at their leisure and many of them take extended bathroom/smoke breaks as well. This involves the multi elevator trek down to the skywalk and out the door to the parking deck to smoke in a designated area. A 10 minute hike in either direction plus the quick 5 - 10 minute drag on a cigarette. Two smoke breaks can easily kill an hour of work less an hour for lunch, less a coffee break, etc etc... You get the picture.

Meanwhile, the non smokers are hard at work filling the gaps left by those on extended "bathroom" breaks.

[edit on 12-2-2010 by jibeho]

reply to post by endisnighe


That was a good one.I am over- weight, eat bacon,drink coffee
and have brown hair.The only thing missing,I am also left-handed!

reply to post by endisnighe


So,now you want "fat-free" towns!I am not as big as jabba the hut,
I am not as big as a sumo wrestler.BUT,my butt can get around
pretty quick where I am!
What is next...outlawing cookies,twinkies and ding dongs?The snack
cake industry would be up in arms and filing lawsuits.