Shanksville forest damage conflicts with official story?

Here's an aerial photo taken on 9/12 that shows the aftermath of something exploding in the forest and causing major damage to a section of trees, including breaking off the tops of some, and also fire damage:






Let's piece together the official story to see what supposedly caused the damaged to the forest:

[Wally Miller] explained how the cockpit broke off at impact, bouncing into a wooded area of about 60 acres. The resulting fireball scorched about eight acres of trees, he said.
The remainder of the plane burrowed deep into the ground, creating a long, narrow crater.

UA93 Memorial Ambassador:
Parts of the cockpit broke off and went back into the woods, but the rest of it went straight down and the ground came in around it, so the actual hole wasn't very large. When the FBI went in for parts, body parts and what not, 35 to 40 feet down in the ground.

According to investigators, the cockpit of the aircraft separated from the plane upon impact and flew into the trees, where it disintegrated.
----------------------
A reporter for a Harrisburg public radio station, Lambert said Flight 93's impact hurled the plane's cockpit and first-class section onto the wooded land that has been in his family since 1930.

So Flight 93's cockpit section broke off from hitting the ground and was hurled into the woods where it exploded and disintegrated, causing severe damaged to the section of the forest adjacent to where UA93 supposedly crashed.


My question is, what's stored in a 757's cockpit to make it EXPLODE?


As mentioned in the official stories above, the remainder of the plane burrowed deep into the ground (see more reports saying most of UA93 buried here.).

One of the landowners even says:

The plane "went in the ground so fast it didn’t have a chance to burn," says Jim.

This means only the 757's cockpit could have caused the forest damage, but I'm unaware of anything stored in the cockpit to make it explode like a bomb and cause fire damage.


So by that, the official story conflicts with the forest damage.




(I know the story about the cockpit breaking off while the rest of the plane burrowing underground is absurd in itself -- both that most of a 757 could burrow and if most could, that the cockpit and not the tailsection would be the section that managed *not* to burrow also -- and deserves its own thread, but I'm just using the official story to question the damaged forest.)

[edit on 12-2-2010 by ATH911]

Good call.

The whole thing kind of reminds me of that episode of the Simpsons where the horse drawn carriage falls off a cliff and explodes.

I'm very glad this has been brought up, because it has bothered me for some time. I would love to hear some explanations on what exactly or how exactly this was caused.

***Someone should really post a aerial before and after shot****(The before shot is from around ten years before the event and the tree line had not been changed at all) B/c the OP's photos don't do justice to the actual amount of damage that was inflicted on the section of missing trees.

I have looked at these both specifically paying attention to this area of woods, and there is a large area of trees missing. Lets be clear also, these are very large trees. As you can tell from the OP's photo.


I don't buy this "cockpit/first class cabin broke off and was thrown into this section of the woods theory" there by chopping a rather large section of trees down or in half. First how exactly would the cockpit somehow break off moments before impact? Wouldn't all of the momentum of all of the boeing be moving downward, I realize or at least have assumed that there was a "splashing" effect of the fuel and small fragmented pieces that bounced in that direction. What has puzzled me though is there does not seem to be (at least in photgraphic or witness records) any large/heavy pieces found that could have created the damage left behind.

What it does appear like is that some kind of serious pressure/projectiles was sent in that direction with enough force to snap the trees completely in half. The charring appears to be from the explosion cloud. If I remember correctly the firemen on scene did not extinguish any fires at all, especially in the trees there.

What is interesting to note though, is that I read (I believe from some transcribed Norad tapes) that had they of had to fire on f93 that they were going to aim directly for the nose (or cockpit) I assumed with a burst of gunfire?

Also, if the cockpit section broke off and created the damage to the trees there wouldn't there have been at least the hijackers bodies found over in the woods? I really have a hard time understanding how 95 percent of the aircraft can be found in the crater...and all of the momentum of this giant aircraft be pushing behind the cockpit but yet it some how brakes off like a missile and shoots horizontally through the air impacting the trees about half way up completely obliterating them. Also, impact crater does not appear to reflect any kind of ricochet damage, it appears that the entire aircraft went into the crater?

Is it possible that the tiny fragments of aluminum bounced from the impact crater and then chopped in half a large section of the trees there?

Someone please explain this part of the impact damage. Would be interesting to understand what we are seeing.

[edit on 12-2-2010 by PersonalChoice]

Things that explode: engines, fuel cells, and warheads,
Maybe, some type of cargo.
But cockpits, ????, come on.!
The sheeple say,:Bahhhhh, baaahhh.

reply to post by PersonalChoice

don't buy this "cockpit/first class cabin broke off and was thrown into this section of the woods theory" there by chopping a rather large section of trees down or in half. First how exactly would the cockpit somehow break off moments before impact? Wouldn't all of the momentum of all of the boeing be moving downward, I realize or at least have assumed that there was a "splashing" effect of the fuel and small fragmented pieces that bounced in that direction. What has puzzled me though is there does not seem to be (at least in photgraphic or witness records) any large/heavy pieces found that could have created the damage left behind.

Forward 1/3 of aircraft broke off at impact. United 93 was traveling upside down and at speed of 580 mph at impact - literally faster than a
bullet. The section forward of the wings broke off and given the momentum continued into the woods disintergrating as it went.

As for explosion - there was over 5500 gallons of jet fuel on board at
impact. The fuel dispersed as an aerosol cloud ignited in massive fireball
burning the trees.

Aerial shot of damage pattern



Debris in woods












Notice aircraft tire and section of fuselage - heavy enough for you ?

Also, if the cockpit section broke off and created the damage to the trees there wouldn't there have been at least the hijackers bodies found over in the woods? I really have a hard time understanding how 95 percent of the aircraft can be found in the crater...and all of the momentum of this giant aircraft be pushing behind the cockpit but yet it some how brakes off like a missile and shoots horizontally through the air impacting the trees about half way up completely obliterating them. Also, impact crater does not appear to reflect any kind of ricochet damage, it appears that the entire aircraft went into the crater?

Body parts were recovered from the trees - in one case a tooth was found
lodged in the branches of a tree.

It was not 95% of the aircraft was found in impact crater. It was 95%
of the aircraft was found at the scene - rest either burned or fragmented
into pieces too small to recover


Bin with recovered aircraft debris

So having pictures of debris in the woods shows what? Right, just debris in the woods. Nothing more.

Originally posted by thedman



Bin with recovered aircraft debris

What are the dimensions of that bin? Are we supposed to believe it contains 95% of an airliner? What is the point of this photo?

Yo OP! You mind posting your first photo again? I think it's a busted link!

Thanks!

Originally posted by thedman
Forward 1/3 of aircraft broke off at impact. United 93 was traveling upside down and at speed of 580 mph at impact - literally faster than a
bullet. The section forward of the wings broke off and given the momentum continued into the woods disintergrating as it went.

What momentum? All the momentum was in one direction. You do know why a plane is the shape it is, correct? Please explain this momentum 'explanation' as it is void any real information or logic.

As for explosion - there was over 5500 gallons of jet fuel on board at
impact. The fuel dispersed as an aerosol cloud ignited in massive fireball
burning the trees.

Aerial shot of damage pattern

That fuel was not in the forward part of the aircraft though, was it? Even according to your story, the fuel was dispersed and ignited upon impact. The forward part of the plane has already broken off and been thrown far away according to you so how does this explosion affect the cockpit section at all?

Just looking for a little help in understanding this, thanks.

reply to post by ATH911


Wow! This is one of the most twisted, convoluted, stressed out pieces of nonsense I've heard about 9/11.

So you have unilaterally decided that the photos indicate an explosion in the woods, you've mined a few quotes about the cockpit and determined that 9/11 was an inside job because there was nothing in the cockpit to explode.

To paraphase Casey Kasem:

"Keep your feet on the ground, but keep grasping for those straws"!

Originally posted by thedman
As for explosion - there was over 5500 gallons of jet fuel on board at
impact. The fuel dispersed as an aerosol cloud ignited in massive fireball
burning the trees.

Possibly the most absurd thing I've heard from a skeptic yet. Where do you get this stuff?! Tell me, how did the fuel escape the 757's fuel tanks and then become aerosolized before floating up in a 45 deg angle towards the forest, then ignite over the trees all the while the rear 2/3 of the plane tunneled down into the ground so far that they supposedly had to dig 15 ft under to start finding the wreckage?!? Also, what ignited this "aerosol cloud" and why did it take a while to "drift" up to and over the forest before igniting?

Aerial shot of damage pattern
Debris in woods

Same old photos from the same tired debunker site. Do you really think the FBI would stage a plane crash without planting debris?!

Body parts were recovered from the trees

Photos please?

in one case a tooth was found lodged in the branches of a tree.

Can you please paste the quote and source of that toothfairy tale?

It was 95% of the aircraft was found at the scene - rest either burned or fragmented
into pieces too small to recover

You agree that the bulk of that amount was found underground?

Bin with recovered aircraft debris

How many pieces of wreckage in there do you see with UA livery colors on them?

Oh God, it's hooper.

Originally posted by hooper
Wow! This is one of the most twisted, convoluted, stressed out pieces of nonsense I've heard about 9/11.

Yes, the story that the rear 2/3-80% of the plane buried so far down that its black boxes (located in the tailsection) went down 15ft and 25ft, yet its cockpit (of all sections) broke off and bounced into the woods is nonsense. I can't believe you skeptics buy it.

So you have unilaterally decided that the photos indicate an explosion in the woods

Well your skeptic buddy thedman thinks an explosion caused that damage in the woods. Is he wrong?

you've mined a few quotes about the cockpit and determined that 9/11 was an inside job because there was nothing in the cockpit to explode.

Funny you accuse me of quote mining Mr. Judge a Thread by Its Title. What did I take out of context?

Originally posted by seattletruth
The whole thing kind of reminds me of that episode of the Simpsons where the horse drawn carriage falls off a cliff and explodes.

Hahaha, I remember that episode! PERFECT analogy. You don't happened to remember what episode that was from?

As Homer says: "It's funny cause it's true."

Originally posted by ATH911

Originally posted by seattletruth
The whole thing kind of reminds me of that episode of the Simpsons where the horse drawn carriage falls off a cliff and explodes.

Hahaha, I remember that episode! PERFECT analogy. You don't happened to remember what episode that was from?

As Homer says: "It's funny cause it's true."

It's family guy

www.youtube.com...

reply to post by ATH911

Well your skeptic buddy thedman thinks an explosion caused that damage in the woods. Is he wrong?

No he doesn't, he thinks the exploding fuel caused the damage TO the woods. Well, him and the rest of humanity. All of whom, with the exception of you, are familiar with the concept of an airplane exploding when it crashes.

You, on the other hand think, for whatever reason, that people are telling you that the cockpit broke off and exploded in the woods.

Originally posted by hooper
No he doesn't, he thinks the exploding fuel caused the damage TO the woods. Well, him and the rest of humanity. All of whom, with the exception of you, are familiar with the concept of an airplane exploding when it crashes.

You, on the other hand think, for whatever reason, that people are telling you that the cockpit broke off and exploded in the woods.

I am starting to think maybe my questions just make too much sense. Anyway...from the OP-

[Wally Miller] explained how the cockpit broke off at impact, bouncing into a wooded area of about 60 acres.

and from Thedman-

As for explosion - there was over 5500 gallons of jet fuel on board at
impact. The fuel dispersed as an aerosol cloud ignited in massive fireball
burning the trees.

Which explosion is that again? This was answering what happened to the cockpit that made it VANISH. Please feel free to scroll back and read.

[edit on 12-2-2010 by K J Gunderson]

reply to post by ATH911

Here's an aerial photo taken on 9/12 that shows the aftermath of something exploding in the forest and causing major damage to a section of trees, including breaking off the tops of some, and also fire damage:

Please post the photo (even though I think I know which one it is) and please post your scientific evidence that something exploded IN the woods. Other than your very bias opinion.

reply to post by K J Gunderson


It was one of 10 constructions bins aka dumpsters used to hold the aircraft debris

At the same time, the high winds that buffeted the area over the last few days have dislodged additional airplane parts – seat cushions, wiring, carpet fragments and pieces of metal – from trees near the crash site. "It's all aircraft parts, no human remains," Miller said. "We've collected them in 10 recycling bin-sized containers and eventually we'll turn them all over to United." –Wallace Miller

At a news conference, FBI agent Bill Crowley said that the field near Shanksville, Somerset County, has been turned over to the county coroner and that 95 percent of the plane found at the site has been turned over to United Airlines.

Evidence-gathering was halted Saturday afternoon and the pieces of United Airlines Flight 93 that had been recovered were turned over Sunday to the airline, with the exception of the flight data recorder and the voice recorder, which are being held and analyzed by the FBI, according to FBI agent Bill Crowley.

Crowley said the biggest piece of the plane that was recovered was a 6-by-7-foot piece of the fuselage skin, including about four windows. The heaviest piece, Crowley said, was part of an engine fan, weighing about 1,000 pounds.

After main recovery effort - Wallace Miller had crews make additional sweep

Over the weekend, about 300 volunteers combed a half-mile square around the crash site and found enough debris from the Boeing 757 to fill about one-third of a trash container.

Most of it was little more than thumbnail size -- "no bigger than a pop rivet holding two pieces of aluminum," Miller said yesterday -- that last week's rains washed from trees bordering the stretch of strip mine where the airliner crashed nose-first Sept. 11.

reply to post by ATH911

Can you please paste the quote and source of that toothfairy tale?

You want the tootth? You cant handle the tooth.....

Miller's eye caught a flash of light 20 feet up in the branches of a hemlock tree. "I only noticed it because the sun happened to hit it at just the right angle," he says. A tree climber brought it down. It was a single tooth with a silver filling. Eventually it was matched to one of the passengers.

In the late fall of 2001, as Shaler and his colleagues were engaged in the slow work of conducting DNA tests on the thousands of fragments from Ground Zero, pathologists at the Pennsylvania and Pentagon sites were moving much more quickly. Many of the remains were burned and badly damaged, but identifiable. In Pennsylvania, Somerset County coroner Wallace E. Miller and his team scoured the "halo"—the field and woods surrounding the crater left when United Airlines Flight 93 plunged into the ground. The debris was everywhere. Trees were draped with scraps of luggage, clothing, bits of the fuselage and human remains. Walking through the crash site in the days after the attacks, Miller's eye caught a flash of light 20 feet up in the branches of a hemlock tree. "I only noticed it because the sun happened to hit it at just the right angle," he says. A tree climber brought it down. It was a single tooth with a silver filling. Eventually it was matched to one of the passengers.

Notice Wallace Miller reporting debris scattered EVERYWHERE around the impact site - not just in the crater

So why are fixated on the impact crater and that 95% was buried

Can see that forward part of aircraft broke off and went into the trees

An engine fan weighing 1/2 ton was found 300 yeards away after bouncing downhill

Your claim that 95% was buried is false.....

Originally posted by thedman
reply to post by K J Gunderson

 

It was one of 10 constructions bins aka dumpsters used to hold the aircraft debris

Out of all the things I said before, this was the only one you could address? That is pretty sad. Thanks though because replying to this proves you can read my posts. Ignoring all the points I brought up while doing it proves you have no answers and I stumped you. Thanks!