The ONLY reason we are screwed when the SHTF!

Looking at a couple of other threads recently, it suddenly occured to me that we have all lost our way in life. Worse still, we are all doomed to fail, if the muck really does hit the fan.

'How can this be?' you might ask.

You would be wise to contemplate this for a moment.

When we talk on the various threads about what we will do if it all "kicks off", and speculate what will happen in each country, we are already setting ourselves up for failure.

It will be a failure so spectacular, that you might miss it unless you are really very clever.

Here's the crack:

Think for a moment about where you are from. Your town, your county, state, country. Think about the names of regions that come to mind that describe where you live. Allow your mind to wrestle with the idea that you will at some point dwell on your sense of national pride.

Think about how many on here, have talked about being "bugged down" and "independent". Think about how many on here have talked about how their country is the "greatest on Earth".

Did the penny drop there?

Just in case it didn't I will conclude: The very idea that we are all independent of each other, and that we must compete/fight with one another in order to survive will ensure a great many of us are "dealt with" effectively, and quickly.

We should nurture and remember the idea that we are all members of a community. Communities survive because of the connections formed within. A community that is bursting with internal connections will survive far better than one with few, or none.

If the "end game" comes, and we live in a town/village (even a city), where we have a large group of people who are all prepared and pledged to help all members of the community, we will survive.

Before it all goes bananas talk to the old lady next door, the doctor down the road, the fireman across from you, the teenagers up the hill. Make connections, make friends, be sincere. In an emergency you turn to your friends, and if there are lots of you, it makes an emergency a much smaller problem, and a much easier task to find a solution.

If the SHTF then the notion of countires will be meaningless. 'Who is better than who' will single you out, and isolate you, making you vulnerable. Being an active part of a community will make you a part of a team, and more likely to succeed. Being a member of a community will ensure you have a maximum number of chances of winning, and surviving. Just think about how we share information here on ATS - we are a part of a community. One that shares information, but it works, and works well.

When the muck really does hit the fan remember this: United we will stand, divided we will fall.

Just to add an adendum, we might all want to look up the idea of being Freemen of the Land. Learn about actively supporting and being engaged in your community.

Perhaps we could all share a few ideas here.

I agree with what you said, so I will keep my point brief.

I think that IF TSHTF there will be a bit more to it than simply turning to your neighbor for support, work duties, food duties, etc. Although this is an important first step. However, it is important to know which of one's neighbors are prepared, have thought about what if, have any resources, etc. Have conversations. Feel out their viewpoint. Get an idea of what you will be facing. Not all neighbors will be friends. Some, unfortunately, will be foes. Thankfully the latter has the smaller number I'm sure.

It's wonderful to think of us all working together happily, but in reality many are unprepared, few are truly ready, and only a handful will have anything beneficial to contribute. This of course was created by years of entitlements that left more wondering WHY WORK? instead of I HAVE TO FIND A BETTER JOB.

Further, we must also keep in mind that the US needs to stick together through all of it. The American people, not the politicians. We need to band together in order to get back to our ideals, to re-shape the landscape of our country so that it truly reflects the people's will -- instead of the will of only a few.

I mention this because the reformation of close-knit communities could easily turn into separate mini-states full of protectionism. Full of their own version of "law". I hardly think that we want the future of our country to be only determined by those with the biggest guns, biggest food piles, and/or most money. Of course, that's my opinion since I am not thrilled about where the US has ended up and if one looks at the above criteria, our current group of elitists fit the bill quite well. Are weapons, food, and money important? Of course -- but that's not all there is and personally I think that the loss of the belief that there is more, is where we went astray.

reply to post by lpowell0627


I think your point is very good, and you have some valid arguments.

My only response is that we shouldn't just be looking to make the US a place for the people... it should be all communities. Regardless of where they are on the globe.

When it really boils down to it, most people just want to have a peaceful life. So by en large the bad boys are outnumbered thousands to one. We need to be mindful of that.

Here in the UK, as in the US people have been spoon fed the idea that they are able to get money for nothing by going to the state for benefits/welfare.

With a community that looks after itself, there would be no need for welfare. Better yet, the communities we live in should in turn look to help out the other communities around it. Which would naturally lead to all communities around the globe working together, and helping one another.

Sadly, I have a feeling that it might be a goal that is too hard to reach, whilst we have TV, and other such vegetative forms of entertainment.

reply to post by dampnickers


Good and necessary words. One term for it is a MAG -- mutual assurance[assistance] group. For some, I suspect, it's an internet roleplay term, or at least that's the impression I get from a couple of survival forums I frequent.

For it to be more than that, requires work, real work -- people doing things NOW, changing their strategies, becoming more self-sufficient, but doing things now, before the necessity. I think that when sudden and unanticipated change/strife comes upon us, it is often too late to adequately respond. I think of natural disasters that I've responded to in the past -- hurricanes, earthquakes...... There sometimes seems to be two distinct mindsets: Those that have thought about the possibilities and have made provisions for them, even though they might think it's a long shot that it occurs, and those who believe that they can rise to the occasion without having made any plans. Of course, this is a huge generalization, and perhaps fraught with peril.

I think the primary problem is that for most people to think of all the situations that might adversely affect them, characterized in order of probability as THEY SEE the world around them, and then to create plans/systems/groups to address these situations. In my experience, most people think this is "fringe", and at the least, uncomfortable. "Survivalist" has become a term of humor and derision in some circles, bringing up images of bearded, jerkey-eating, camo-wearing, gun-toting whackamoles who dig themselves into a mountainside, armed to the teeth, who can't wait for the apocalypse to start.

Real people, especially in rural or remote settings, can talk about such things and they don't seem so far away. In the urban/city situation, we sometimes find it hard to imagine that things could ever change the orderly flow of power, systems, law and order, consumerism that dictates the patterns of our lives.

I believe it can all change in a heartbeat, but I will not live consumed with fear or anticipation of potential events. What I do and will continue to do is make us more self-sufficient, and make changes that will benefit us, regardless of the future chain of events. And yes, we sock away more than a bit of food and rotate that food. We grow what we can, and started with container gardening and grew from there. It's an investment in yourself, and no amount of guilt or peer pressure will move us from our potentially unreasonable security without our participation.

A MAG doesn't have to have a physician, but it helps. A MAG doesn't need to have ex-military, but it helps. What it DOES need to have is people that elect to care about each other's welfare, and the best of things is when the MAG works before the dreaded events transpire.

Every time a hurricane hits here, we tweak our hurricane response plan. Yes, perhaps it's a tad silly that we've actually written it down, given that we NEVER follow it exactly. It's a way of letting ourselves and those in the group measure our effectiveness, and to learn from each situation and document those lessons.

A MAG is jus' folks. I wish that for all of you. I think it's a facet of human evolution.

Good thread.

edit fer spelin'

[edit on 11/2/10 by argentus]

It's safe to throw conspiracy theories around, because what you in fact do is casting the blame on a group without stating any facts whatsoever. It's a rhetorical move, but it doesn't impress me, nor anyone else whose IQ is equal to or above Western European standard. Instead of taking a handful of positive visions and at least making some of them reality, paranoid men regard themselves as victims of a group more successful than them. It's a mind-game: I can't beat X, so I'll keep saying X keeps me from doing good, therefore I have a moral argument against why I'm not doing good. Don't be fooled by this; it is laziness camouflaged as insight. Powerless people are sometimes sad, but powerless people who try to convert others to their cause is a societal problem. Cut them off.

I agree that communties are your best chance for survival in a shtf scenario. The biggest problem will be that few have any USEFUL skills for what will be needed. Sure you'll have doctors, but no medicines or machines. Mechanics with no parts.
Who can blacksmith? Jury rig electrical systems? Grow vegetables or raise livestock? Hunt? Forage? Make tools?
Everyone should master at least 1 important skill that will be needed badly during such a time. Who knows how long it could be before electrical systems might be restored, 5? 10 years?
It will NOT be the funnest of times, but it has the potential to be one of the most rewarding of times

reply to post by Asktheanimals


Some brilliant questions, and ideas!

We should all endeavour to learn a new skill, or set of skills and pass these on to as many people as possible. Perhaps even getting to know people who have good levels of basic skills in wood working, electronice, etc are good to know, and learn from.

Another idea springs to mind too. Perhaps, when the electricity goes out and we have no access to the interweb, we should have a good stock of "how to guides" sitting on a shelf in the study/garage/office, so that we have a solid source of reference.

reply to post by dampnickers


Agree with you and AskTheAnimals. There are basic skills that our parents and grandparents knew, that have for the most part have been discarded or not maintained as a knowledge base.

Can we make fire?

Perhaps a long shot, but do we know how to make a Kearney Fallout Meter?

A person who can smith or even shape metals with nontechological means will have a vocation and a means to trade with. Farmers, hunters, people with healing skills, people with weather skills, others. Warriors.

You bring up a good point, and that is to compile a collection of beneficial written works. I've spent the past coupla years printing out some things, keeping them in a waterproof bag.

Just last year, we learned how to make coconut oil, and to use ash and salt to make that oil into a useable soap. Do I think I'll NEED these skills? I sure hope not. No harm in knowing how to do it, and to have practiced it with common means.

What plants in your area have medicinal qualities? Where can you find water? How can you purify/distill/filter it? Can you make a solar oven? Can you tan an animal's hide with its own brains?

These things might, just might, give a person an edge. Worst case is we've learned something that was once important, and could be so again.