Police: Man with weapons cache was preparing for Armageddon

reply to post by TroyB


www.salemnews.com...

The following day, an Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms agent contacted Manchester police about a tip they had received about grenades inside the condo. That tip came from a friend of Girard's wife.

Originally posted by v3_exceed
Hate to be the one to break it to you, but fully automatic weapons are already illegal...

Really? Could you please point to the relevant US Federal statute? Strict regulation is not the same as a ban. Besides, in the overwhelming majority of cases it is not fully-automatic weapons but semi-automatic (and largely legal) 'assault weapons' that American criminals own and use. When was the last time you heard of someone getting shot with a machine gun?

Regulation only ensures that when the time comes the only person without a firearm will be you, the law abiding citizen.

This is a well known gun-lover's argument. The fact that most citizens of the civilized world--including millions of Americans--get along just fine without being armed to the teeth appears to have escaped them.

If the 2nd amendment is allowed to be repealed, the USA would be ripe for an invasion as there is simply no way even your army could protect the entire country.

That, I'm afraid, is just nonsense.

It seems to me that you have learned nothing from history. In every case removing the right of the population to own and bear arms has resulted in the eventual fascist oppression of that population.

Please support this statement with examples. While you are searching for them, you may want to ponder what has been learnt from the history of the America's love afffair with the gun.

[edit on 11/2/10 by Astyanax]

HE DID NOT HAVE EXPLOSIVE GRENADES!

Good lord people, get some reading comprehension. He had tear gas grenades. Do you know what the difference between explosives and tear gas are? I should hope you do, if you see yourselves as fit to open your mouths about it.

Now, according to Massachusetts law, tear gas devices have to be purchased from licensed dealers and require a permit to obtain. Did he have the permit and acquire the TEAR GAS grenades legally? If so, then he's well within his rights to own them.

A POLICE BATON IS A STICK!

Apparently, the libs have finally gone and done it... they've decided to start arresting people for owning sticks. I've seen "people" on this thread actually shout "Yeah, throw him in jail for that! Illegal!"

That kind of makes me sick. What kind of glutton for punishment WANTS to live in a country where you can get thrown in jail for owning sticks?

THERE IS NO LIMIT TO THE NUMBER OF GUNS OR AMOUNT OF AMMO YOU CAN OWN!

There is no such law, and Constitutionally there can never be any such law. I'm sure the gun grabbers will keep trying to pass such a law because they're sick in the head. 20 guns isn't that hard to have. If you're an avid collector or shooter, you could probably find good justification to own 20 different types of guns.

It's not actually against the law to stockpile weapons an ammunition to protect yourself in the event of "The Apocalypse." Is it a wise financial strategy? Probably not. Is it likely that any one person would ever need 20 guns, even if it WERE the Apocalypse? Probably not. BUT...

Who are you to decide what he needs? Is Gregory Girard allowed to tell you how many cars you can own, or how many pairs of pants are necessary for you to wear to work? NO!! Because that's your choice, not his. Just like you're allowed to subscribe to as many newspapers as you want, other people can own however many guns they want.

IF A POLICE STATE FORMED AND DECLARED MARTIAL LAW, WE WOULD HAVE EVERY RIGHT TO TRY TO FIGHT AND KILL THOSE OPPRESSORS, EVEN IF WE HAD NO CHANCE OF WINNING!

That's just how it is. If you disagree with that statement, then the men who fought in the Revolutionary War wasted their time fighting and dying to give you a democratic republic. Way to dis' the founders. Don't worry, there are still some of us left who acknowledge that sacrifice and understand how precious our freedom is. The rest of you, feel free to go about your oblivious, mundane life with no perception of the world outside your own ignorant faces.

HE HAD A SHOOTING RANGE IN HIS ATTIC!

Well, okay, yes... That's just retarded. He was a moron and he was putting everyone at risk. THAT should be the issue here. For THAT REASON ALONE, this man should be thrown in jail.

So what am I so upset about? I'm mad because people aren't making that the issue! The news should read, "Man Arrested for clandestine shooting range in condominium." Instead, it reads "Guy has too many guns! And grenades! And bullets! And STICKS! OH MY GOD, STICKS!"

That fact alone proves that his fears and paranoia are more founded than the blissful ignorance that oozes out of the gun grabber crowd.

Aaaand here's the thing about gun grabbers:

What a lot of people don't realize is that Gun Grabbing Governments have historically turned into People Grabbing Governments. Before World War II, Germans could own firearms also. And they could vote! But it's okay if they were disarmed since they still had the ability to use VOTING to stop anything bad from happening, right? After all, voting ALWAYS works, doesn't it?

reply to post by mattifikation

CHAPTER 266. CRIMES AGAINST PROPERTY

Chapter 266: Section 102A. Infernal machine; possession; definition; notice of seizure

Section 102A. Whoever, other than a police or other law enforcement officer acting in the discharge of his official duties, has in his possession or under his control an infernal machine or a similar instrument, contrivance or device shall be punished by imprisonment in the state prison for not more than ten years or in jail for not more than two and one half years, or by a fine of not more than one thousand dollars, or by both such fine and imprisonment, and the said machine, instrument, contrivance or device shall be forfeited to the commonwealth. The term “infernal machine”, as used in this section, shall include any device for endangering life or doing unusual damage to property, or both, by fire or, explosion, whether or not contrived to ignite or explode automatically and whether or not disguised so as to appear harmless. Notice of the seizure of any such machine, instrument, contrivance or device shall be sent forthwith to the commissioner of public safety and the article seized shall be subject to his order.

"whether or not contrived to ignite or explode automatically"
So I guess after Waco where smoke gernades started fires any gernade that could start fires are now Infernal machines. I guess the guy should have stuck with pepper spray instead of pepper gernades.

So they'll give you a permit to buy it, and then arrest you for having it? I don't see how that adds up. Isn't "permit" the root word of "permission?"

Originally posted by Maxmars

We were never told in the article what the warrant was for...

I wonder which judge signed it?

[edit on 10-2-2010 by Maxmars]

Exactly. They better have had "articulable suspicion" that he committed or was going to commit a crime. You can't just go to a legit judge with "rumors" and get a search warrant. 4th amendment, where art thou?

Originally posted by Astyanax

Originally posted by v3_exceed
Hate to be the one to break it to you, but fully automatic weapons are already illegal...

Really? Could you please point to the relevant US Federal statute? Strict regulation is not the same as a ban. Besides, in the overwhelming majority of cases it is not fully-automatic weapons but semi-automatic (and largely legal) 'assault weapons' that American criminals own and use. When was the last time you heard of someone getting shot with a machine gun?

Regulation only ensures that when the time comes the only person without a firearm will be you, the law abiding citizen.

This is a well known gun-lover's argument. The fact that most citizens of the civilized world--including millions of Americans--get along just fine without being armed to the teeth appears to have escaped them.

If the 2nd amendment is allowed to be repealed, the USA would be ripe for an invasion as there is simply no way even your army could protect the entire country.

That, I'm afraid, is just nonsense.

It seems to me that you have learned nothing from history. In every case removing the right of the population to own and bear arms has resulted in the eventual fascist oppression of that population.

Please support this statement with examples. While you are searching for them, you may want to ponder what has been learnt from the history of the America's love affair with the gun.

[edit on 11/2/10 by Astyanax]

Your Avatar indicates that your "Mind is Firmly Closed". Your argument belies the position of a government shill with zero knowledge of history.

You have probably not heard about the following:

In 1929 the Soviet Union established gun control.
From 1929 to 1953, approximately 20 million dissidents, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.

In 1911, Turkey established gun control.
From 1915-1917, 1.5 million Armenians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.

Germany established gun control in 1938.
From 1939 to 1945, 13 million Jews, gypsies, homosexuals, the mentally ill, and others, who were unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.

China established gun control in 1935.
From 1948 to 1952, 20 million political dissidents, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.

Guatemala established gun control in 1964.
From 1964 to 1981, 100,000 Mayan Indians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.

Uganda established gun control in 1970.
From 1971 to 1979, 300,000 Christians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.

Cambodia established gun control in 1956.
From 1975 to 1977, one million "educated" people, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.

The list goes on.......

The Americans love affair with guns as you put it, stopped America from being invaded in WW2. It has kept America a world power, and had earned America the fear if not the respect of the entire world. Until the last 20 or so years...

You might believe that your support of the government will provide you some sense of leniency when the time comes, but it wont. Oppression has no loyalties.

This website itself contains reference to everything you have demanded I provide. You only need to look. Which.....you wont. The only nonsense here is your entire argument, and I am beyond attempting to convince you of the painfully obvious.

..Ex

www3.whdh.com...

The above is the video showing the grenades he had below is the data on those grenades. The both have "Unusual Fire & Explosion Hazards Shock sensitive." Thats enough to be classified as Chapter 266: Section 102A. Infernal machine.

www.alstechnologies.com...
static.alstechnologies.com...
static.alstechnologies.com...

SECTION 4 – FIRE & EXPLOSION DATA
Flammability Yes Flash Point NA Method Used NA
Upper Flammability Limit in Air % by Volume NA Auto Ignition Temp. NA
Lower Flammability Limit in Air % by Volume NA
Special Fire Fighting Procedures Do not fight fire, evacuate downwind area and allow material to burn out
Unusual Fire & Explosion Hazards Shock sensitive. Burns with high heat producing smoke and noxiousfumes

www.alstechnologies.com...
static.alstechnologies.com...

The Hornets Nest Sting Grenade is a non-reusable rubber filled
grenade filled with approximately 60 .45 caliber rubber balls and .03
oz. of OC, CS or OC/CS surrounding an explosive charge. The fuse
is ejected by a separate charge after activation eliminating the only
metal portion of the grenade prior to the detonation and expulsion
of the rubber projectiles in a 360 degree radius. The chemical blast
dispersion round is designed to cause disorientation through a tearing
and burning sensation in the eyes, involuntary closing of the eyes
(blepharospam), violent coughing, shortness of breath (dyspnea) and
is an irritant to exposed skin surfaces. The Hornets Nest is designed
to result in behavior modifications or retreat away from officers or
immediate response to issued commands

www.alstechnologies.com...

Press Releases

January 26, 2010

BULL SHOALS, AR

A Message from Founder, Owner, and Chairman of the Board, David Alvirez

I would first like to say thank you to all those who know Linda and me for your continuing support.

As everyone in our community knows, A.L.S. has been a good corporate citizen and a strong contributor to the community and the economic well being of Arkansas citizens. A.L.S. has always – and will continue – to operate and support the fine people of this community. It was my intention to share the facts of the case but I have been instructed that I cannot because they are facts in an on going investigation but when the facts are revealable we will prevail.

The federal government has alleged that a manager at our company engaged in illegal activity. These charges will be dealt with in a court of law.

For years A.L.S. has sold its products to many foreign governments and businesses and has conducted these transactions in compliance with all federal, state and local laws. Each international transaction requires State Department or Department of Commerce approval and without exception, every transaction conducted by A.L.S has had proper authorization to move forward.

The management of A.L.S Technologies had no information that there was anything questionable about any of their transactions with the foreign governments. A.L.S. is a law-abiding family business, and having faith in our judicial system will see our people back in good standing soon.

We appreciate your continued support, encouragement, and prayers as we navigate through this situation.

So this company that sells these things are already being investigated for illegal sales.

[edit on 12-2-2010 by JBA2848]

^^^good info!

So the Police did a good job.

The guy's photo makes me think he is kook. I mean, he just looks like an unstable kooky sort. Plus shooting in the attic? Well, it could have been a BB gun range.

Anyway.... get him out of here! Babbling all about Armageddon and Mel Gibson. Kooky.

Originally posted by Astyanax

Originally posted by spikey
Yeah? And how many Americans have lost their right to life at the hands of some thug or gang of thugs, because they could not defend themselves? Probably a lot more.

You are proving my point. Those Americans lost their lives, over 60 percent of the time, to thugs or gangs of thugs with guns.

Thugs or gangs of thugs exercising their sacred American 'right' to bear arms.

It would be a different story if the trade off were more even sided.

If Americans abrogated that nonsensical 'right' in their Constitution and strictly regulated the ownership of guns by the public, as is done in other civilized countries, the contest would certainly be more even. Especially for your long-suffering police, who have to deal with criminals carrying automatic weapons and other armaments more suited for the battlefield than for the ghetto or trailer park.

I disagree with you on that . Look at our neighbor to the south .

Gun politics in Mexico have resulted in some of the strictest gun laws in the world. It is in many ways similar to the United Kingdom, except with much more severe prison terms for even the smallest gun law violations. On the other hand, possession of non-military-caliber small arms by citizens is largely a non-issue. Gun politics are thus not the major issue in Mexico that they are in the neighboring United States, since few Mexican citizens have any gun law difficulties.

en.wikipedia.org...

In Ciudad Juarez, across the border from El Paso, Texas, there were 102 killings in the first 10 days of the year, compared to 46 in that period last year. There were more than 2,500 victims in the city in the whole of 2009.

This is a city of 1.5 m

www.telegraph.co.uk...

I have read reports that the gangs there are armed as well as the Mexican government themselves and better sometimes Those guns and automatic weapons of military grade are NOT from the normal channels or from legal gun owners .

The Mexican Constitution guarantees the right of Mexicans to possess arms. Even so, gun control laws in Mexico are very strict, and police discretion in enforcement makes possession of firearms of greater than .22 very difficult.

www.davekopel.com...

It isnt the law abiding citizen thats doing the killing down there it is the Thugs Gangs and the drug wars . Law abiding citizens are being butchered . Along with cops crooks and dealers .

Most Thugs or gang members usually have a record . Having a record disqualifies them from owning or touching or being with in reach of a fire arm . Violation of this will result in parole being rescinded or them getting 5 years added to any sentence they are charged with (depending on state ) So thugs and gang members dont have the sacred right to a fire arm

A study conducted by the Illinois Criminal Justice Information Authority focused on intra-gang, inter-gang and non-gang member victimization. The study examined 956 street gang-related homicides which occurred in Chicago, Illinois, between 1987 and 1994. Of the 956 street gang-related homicides, 10.8 percent were determined to be intragang murders, 74.8 percent were intergang murders, and 14.4 percent were murders of non-gang victims by a gang member. Gang members, male and female alike, commit crimes in numbers far out of proportion to their share of the general population. Consistently, more than half of all gang members tend to be repeat offenders.

www.hi-ho.ne.jp...

Since over half of gang members are repeat offenders and gangs do more crime than the regular population wouldn't going after the people doing the crime be more effective than going after every one who owns a gun ? And if they are 4 % of the population thats a whole lot easier to control than all 300 m of us .

I have had guns for 40 years and have never committed a gun crime or any crime out side of traffic laws and parking . Why do you people always go after law abiding citizens and not after the hoodlums we are not the problem crooks are . And there are hundreds of thousands of us law abiding citizens who don't do gun crimes and we are to be punished for the crooks bad behavior .

reply to post by Ridhya


i know....sad aint it? because even though i know the seriousness of this and joked at his relative fast and sudden aquisition of his LEGAL weaponry, mistakes like his are the perfect excuse to use if a push to disarm(guns/owners and such have already been demonized by the mainstream) the citizens of the U.S.

i dont want to live like the English, no offense to my gunless brethren across the pond. If i want to buy a big azz gun, just to plink junk cars on my isolated 100 acres of land, dammit i should be allowed to.

reply to post by ahmonrarh


Well it was the FEDs who used smoke grenades in Waco Texas and burned down the branch dividian compound that led to "The term “infernal machine”, as used in this section, shall include any device for endangering life or doing unusual damage to property, or both, by fire or, explosion, whether or not contrived to ignite or explode automatically and whether or not disguised so as to appear harmless."

in england u can't stockpile weapons to resist the nwo because u are the nwo.

I could have sworn that the article said that he purchased all of his weapons legally. I'm not sure where the crime is. Why was he arrested again?

This makes me mad, he should have put up a fight. Booby-traps would have been a good idea too. Whats the point of having all that junk if he isn't willing to use it. Put on some kevlar and bust out a couple big guns and kick down the door and go out like a man. Not like a slave rotting in a prison cell. Or rig the whole house with explosives so If your pinned down you can still have the last laugh. checkmate. boom.

It's really a shame, he would have been useful after the collapse of civilization in a few years. There's not enough well prepared survivalists. Far too many fat lazy useless people populate this country and the only good they will do anyone is as a large meal for cannibals.

Originally posted by v3_exceed
Your Avatar indicates that your "Mind is Firmly Closed". Your argument belies the position of a government shill with zero knowledge of history.

You mean 'reveals', not 'belies'. At least they teach us to use dictionaries in shill school. And that's quite enough of that, if you please. Let's keep this polite and civilized, or you will discover to your regret which of us packs more rhetorical heat, and can deploy it to best effect within the admirable constraints of this site's terms and conditions.

Agreed? Very well then, let us get on with it.

To begin with, I note that you are silent on all my points except the last. Did you have trouble finding that automatic-weapon-banning statute?

Of your list of counterexamples, I will address just one in detail. You said

In 1929 the Soviet Union established gun control. From 1929 to 1953, approximately 20 million dissidents, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.

Twenty million dissidents? No: twenty million Soviet citizens over a period of a quarter of a century. You are lumping the victims of the purges, the forced mass migrations and the absurdly-concocted Five Year Plans all together. These people weren't dissidents; they were victims. Hardly any of them ever owned guns in the first place.

And while it is true that gun control was introduced by Stalin once he had gained control of the Soviet Union, the freedom to own firearms does not seem to have helped Russian citizens much in the years before he outlawed it.

• Gun ownership did not protect Russian citizens from the Red Terror of 1918 and after.
  
  
• Neither did it mitigate, but rather increased, the horrors and atrocities of the Russian Civil War of 1918-1920 and its aftermath, which lasted until 1923.
  
  
• Gun ownership did not help the Russian aristocracy keep themselves and their vast properties out of the hands of the Bolsheviks during that war, although the aristocrats had plenty of guns.
  
  
• The freedom to own guns did not cause the Krondstadt Rebellion of 1921 to succeed.
  
  
• Nor did gun ownership prevent Stalin from seizing power in defiance of Lenin's wishes and those of the majority of the Communist Party and the Central Committee.

It would be tedious (and pointless) to address each of your other examples in similar detail. Every one of them concerns a regime committed to oppression or genocide. The Armenians and Jews were already-oppressed minorities who would not have been able to defend themselves anyway, guns or no guns. The same goes for Maya Indians in Guetamala and pretty much anyone who had to endure Idi Amin's reign of terror.

As for the Cambodians, what kept them from being exterminated between 1956 and 1975? And--while we're on the subject--just what do you think the Cambodians had before gun control? French colonial oppression until 1953, that's what, followed by chaos for two years while the country was awash with guns from the Vietnam conflict next door.

Finally, your cherry-picked selection ignores the vast number of countries in which gun control has never been followed by any kind of repression.

This website itself contains reference to everything you have demanded I provide. You only need to look. Which.....you wont.

What web site? ATS? You expect me to go trawling all over this huge site to find evidence that supports your position? Optimistic, to say the least.

[edit on 12/2/10 by Astyanax]

Originally posted by Lostinthedarkness
I disagree with you on that. Look at our neighbor to the south.

Now that's a respecatble countereargument. You're quite right; Mexico's strict gun laws don't seem to help Mexicans much.

A lot of that, however, is simply fallout from living next door to a huge, rich country in which guns are sold like jellybeans.

In Ciudad Juarez, across the border from El Paso, Texas...

See what I mean?

I have read reports that the gangs there are armed as well as the Mexican government themselves and better sometimes Those guns and automatic weapons of military grade are NOT from the normal channels or from legal gun owners.

Because of the vast revenues they earn from selling drugs in the United States, which is where the guns come from too. 20,000 American guns sold to Mexican criminals

I have had guns for 40 years and have never committed a gun crime or any crime out side of traffic laws and parking.

Do you feel your gun ownership has been responsible for your good citizenship, or do you feel that your good citizenship has prevented you from committing a gun crime? How do you feel about citizens less responsible than yourself having the right to own guns?

Originally posted by v3_exceed

Germany established gun control in 1938.
From 1939 to 1945, 13 million Jews, gypsies, homosexuals, the mentally ill, and others, who were unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.
..Ex

Funny enough: the 1938 Gun law in germany
*totaly deregulated rifles and long guns*, which required a permit before *increased the number of groups exempt from requiering a permit*
*Lowered the minimum Age from 20 to 18*
*Extended expiration of permits from 1 to 3 years*
Of course, one group was added to those not permited to have guns: Jews.
But other than that: Totally establishing gun control, yup.

Originally posted by v3_exceed

The Americans love affair with guns as you put it, stopped America from being invaded in WW2.

..Ex

Yes, it was daddys revolver in the cupboard, WWII technology and 2 Oceans had nothing at all to do of it.

Now: Can you show me a revolution in the past 100 years that succeeded and did not have support by the military and/or was peaceful?

[edit on 12-2-2010 by debunky]

reply to post by METACOMET


The lesson seems clear to me. Keep your mouth shut about what you believe and what you have because of those beliefs.
seeashrink

I intend to survive martial law nukes and whatever apocalypse should take form infront of me, you gunna arrest me to or you gunna wait til it kicks off and i'm stabbing up all the corrupt mofo's with a kitchen knife? cause from where WE are sitting its the only option your giving us.

@gordon brown. and obama.

if we keep quiet we lose. your all too quiet as is. considering the extent of said corruption, I don't know why everyone isn't rioting already. actually I do, fear.

[edit on 12-2-2010 by KKinsane2009]