God Vs. Satan: Satan 1 - God 0

People cannot see the truth of good and evil which is in front of thier eyes and all over the news and in their struggle of everyday life and portrayed in movies and stories.The world has always been filled with good and bad people.Read history and learn it is destined to repeat itself with wars and murder and rape and hatred and bigotry and racism.What does it take to get people to believe that a force of good behavoir and bad behavoir is as plain as day right in front of your eyes.Now I think this means it is highly likely this stuff happened with God and what the bible calls the angel Lucifer or Satan.That is my faith and belief though.But if it is plain as day on planet earth why can it not be plain as day as the truth with good and evil with real forces we cannot see.Think about it,if it is plain as day on this planet everyday,good and evil works.Why would it be impossible for it to be good and evil with God and Satan.
Your score point system does not mean a thing to what happens to one person doing a good or bad thin to someone on the earth.So your Satan 1-God 0 comment is either sarcasm or could it be you agaisnt anyone who believes in God.Or could this simply mean there is good vs evil when obviously people do good and evil things to each other.
[edit on 7-2-2010 by Jobeycool]

[edit on 7-2-2010 by Jobeycool]

reply to post by Jobeycool


Both assumptions are wrong. Its just a catchy title.

Though I thought the message behind it would be clear after reading the opening post. Bottom line, Satan accomplished, what I believe and what the bible states, was impossible.

One way to look at it...God loved us enough to give us freewill. He won't ever tamper with making a choice for us. He wants us to choose and love him. How can we choose him if we don't have freewill. Satan could have chosen him.

Satan didn't win. Just like us, the second his actions were complete, his judgement was sealed. Now he knows his future is inevitable so he looks to destroy God's creation. God has given us a promise that in the end he will reward those that have chosen him and punish those who have rebelled.

Why would God put up with this rebellious, ungrateful creation for so long? It is called mercy. He wants to see all of us make it or at least get a chance.

How will this not happen again in heaven? This time instead of God being surrounded by all the souls he has created, He will be surrounded by the souls that have shown him absolute faith and those who love him.

I am sure God didn't view Satan's rebellion as a war or as a competition. Instead he probably felt sad that the fallen angel sealed his own fate.

BUT...If you're going to keep score(according to the Word of God) then you had better read the whole bible. Here is my calculation:

Garden of Eden(apple incident)---Satan 1

Christ raising from the dead after the cross(defeating sin)---God 1

Endtimes antichrist rule---Satan 1

Endtimes Pouring out of God's wrath---God 7

Judgement(lake of fire)---God 1

God 9 - Satan 2

I would call that a humiliating defeat.

Originally posted by Ghost in the Machine
Greetings.

Upon pondering biblical creation, I came across a thought which wouldnt pass. If Satan was able to do the impossible and bring sin into heaven. Does that mean that there is a chance that he may do the impossible again and defeat God at his own game?

And yes, I've heard that arguement before about God needing an opposition to balance everything out or that Satan's fate is already set becuase it says so in the bible. But yet the bible does not seem to give an explaination about how sin was able to enter such a perfect place like heaven.

Happy Posting

Where does it say he brought sin into Heaven?

reply to post by Lemon.Fresh


He is referring to the disobedience of God's command by Adam and Eve when they ate from the tree of knowledge. Satan, Adam and Eve all did something wrong WHILST they were in heaven.

So technically, sin did get into heaven!

Now that is food for thought.

[edit on 8-2-2010 by Jinni]

There is so much silliness that results from ignorance on this topic. When you want to understand something like God and Satan, you have to research the words in its native language. To summarize it all, God simply means majesty, excellence, and is used in the plural many many times. ITS A TITLE, NOT A NAME. Repeat:

THEY ARE TITLES, NOT A NAMES.

Satan, is a title for the adversary. Would you NAME your child Bob, and then name him Joe because he becomes a bad person? NO, that is stupid. These names are all TITLES. Lucifer was a title for intelligent, beautiful beings. When such beings become bad, their TITLE changed to Satan meaning adversary to excellence/majesty. Again would you name your child a different name when he become bad, or would you change your classification/title of him from good to bad. Its titles. You would understand this if you read the bible seriously. Then check it with the native language will confirm this. But that takes too much effort and bickering of fairy tale imaginary beings is more productive. When will the FOOLS finally get this through their thick skulls?!

I dont know how what is written as sin entered heaven it seems more less like whenever the creation of the humans came into play when natas was upset, because of jealously towards humans and their capabilities. Natas felt secondary to humans as did others of the what are known as the fallen angels and begin to SIN AS YOU SAY FROM THAT POINT ON-
SIN BY HATING ANOTHER OF GODS CREATIONS-MANKIND
SIN BY INTENTIONALLY MISSGUIDING GODS CREATION FROM THE EARLY DAYS -EDEN- AND THE SERPENT -EVE & ADAM
SIN BY ATTEMPTING TO CREATE HIS OWN FORM OF EXISTANCE EVEN THOUGH ITS WITHIN THE LIGHT REALM ANYWAY. SPACE BUGS AND DISSAPEARING GALAXIES SMH NOT THE *HEAVENS*
SIN BY NOT KNEELING DOWN AND SAYING SORRY FOR HIS ACTS AGAINST HUMANITY AND EXCEPTING HE WILL NEVER BE A CREATOR JUST AN IMPOSTER WITH NICE VISUALS -MAGICIAN LOL
SO these mentioned in my post are when I believe that what you call SIN became a form of energy within the heavens causing him to be casted down with those natas tampered with -MABEY MEETING HIS COUNTER PART WITHIN THE HUMAN RACE...



[edit on 2/8/10 by Ophiuchus 13]

in reply to the first question...God created evil....read the scripture, it's written(right there in the bible), i think it's in two places...a concordance search!

reply to post by Ghost in the Machine


The question of where evil came from to begin with is one of the most difficult conundrums in Christianity. This question used to gnaw at me when I was a Christian because if God is perfect, good and All-Powerful then where does evil come from. The Bible says sin just kinda randomly crops up in the form of pride... but pride isn't the most evil thing I can think of so how is that the origin of evil? At any rate isn't Lucifer's pride caused by God promoting him? Why would Lucifer have reason to get a big head if God had made him lowly? Does God not predict or see coming the revolution Lucifer has started?

If God knows all that is to come why create Lucifer to begin with? Why plant the tree in the garden or let the snake into the Garden? For someone who is supposed to be all powerful there sure seem to be a lot of things happening outside of God's control.

So could Lucifer defeat God? Not in the Bible but I'm sure in other books he's one the fight. I know I wouldn't want to be on either side of the fight. If God wins you end up being a servant to him stuck in Heaven where there is no sadness and likely no fun (if I'm never sad how can I enjoy happiness?). Besides who wants an eternity of bowing down? And with Lucifer its no better, you get to remain free willed but have to burn for eternity... Both choices blow chunks...

Someone, I forget who, said it this way: A perfect being creates imperfect beings and then blames them for his mistakes... How does a perfect God make imperfection? How does a perfect God make free will and WHY?

So you can see there are more questions than answers and none of it makes a lick of sense.

I think God and Satan are 2 separate entities of the same being. I believe since the creation God bound himself to certain laws and rules. Nothing would be fun if you knew what is to happen a million years from now. Nor would it be any fun for you be able to move everyone. It would get as boring as playing The Sims forever.

I remember reading somewhere (I think Apocrypha, Enoch's book) that there have been 9 heavens all together. It was said that Satan has been around since the first heaven was created. Heaven does not get destroyed only layered on top of each other.

So not only did Satan fall in the first heaven but eventually so did Angels because of their lustful ways.

TO say Satan 1 - God 0 would mean you understand what is happening and who these beings are. For all you know this whole life is to mold us for after death. Satan is here to tempt us, and we must refuse.

Personally, I think there is no battle only an illusion of one. We must know there is a heaven and hell for the reason of not doing evil. Imagine that Jesus came down and said you are all saved no matter what! No Heaven or Hell. How many people would do what they wanted?

Maybe Heaven and Hell could be made up but is that wrong? If it stops someone from murdering and stealing than I say game on.

reply to post by Ghost in the Machine


Man it's like an epidemic of people confused about the Bible simply because they never finished reading it.

Anyway, first of all your scoreboard is wrong.
God Vs. Satan: Satan 1 - God 0 should be God Vs. Satan: Satan 1 - God Infinity.

Jesus is referred to the last Adam. Where the first adam (Adam and Eve) had failed and brought sin into the world, the last "adam" which is Jesus has already triumphed over all sins past and present and future unto infinity.

In other words the game is already over and Jesus has already defeated sin for us thousands of years ago. The only question that remains is which team's after party do you want to go to? The loser's party or the winner's party?

Check out this true and scientific book which is online called, "The devil and Karen Kington."
hbcdelivers.s439.sureserver.com...
I've authenticated the authenticity of the book twice and it's a very sobering book.

reply to post by Lemon.Fresh


Revelations 21: 27

reply to post by tinfoilman


Your right if your looking at it with a christian view point. Try reading the bible as a story book instead of a guide of faith. Then tell me what you think of it..

reply to post by Ghost in the Machine


Well first of all, if you're asking questions about it I think you need to start off by reading it to begin with. I don't care how you read it. As a story book or not, but the point is you can find the Bible's answers to many simple question simply by reading it front to back.

I've read it front to back multiple times. So, when you have done so you can easily tell when someone else hasn't read it at all. Like when someone asks a question about the Bible that's answered on its first page. Which happens a lot actually. That's always a dead give away. Your question however has its answer more closer to the back of the book though. Nevertheless, it's still in there.

The reason is because non-believers don't ask questions because they actually want an answer. If they wanted an answer they'd just open the book and read it. What they're doing is asking questions to subvert by making people think the Bible doesn't have an answer so they can make people doubt their faith.

The reason it doesn't work well is because most of the time the non-believers have never read the Bible and don't realize that the Bible does give an explanation. They just never bothered to check it out.

Now, the point is this. You may not agree with the explanation given in the Bible, and if you want to debate the answer given we can do that, but it does give an explanation to your orig question and many other things that people assume the Bible never answers just because they never read that page. Even if you don't exactly agree with the answer given.

So of course you can choose to not agree with the answer the Bible gives, but nevertheless it still gives one.

But either way the answer to your orig question would still be no then. If the Bible is true then the Bible says Satan is defeated and there is no chance of him winning.

If the Bible is just a story book then that means Satan probably doesn't exist. So, if he doesn't exist and neither does God, how would Satan beat God at his own game?

reply to post by tinfoilman


In this case, we are assuming it is true. If you claim that the bible explains it all and I havent read it then tell me this. Why doesnt it give the origin of God? Why do bad things happen to good people? Why does God kill? Why in the first place would God allow us to suffer if he loves us so much? and if your going to answer the tough questions, I will require logical answers and none of this "we cant comprehend God due to our lack of knowledge" becuase your bible also states as man are God once was so I'd rightly assume he has been through it all before. And please refrain from using "God works in mysterious ways".

How stupid you people must be to even think for second that God can be defeated, you are so mislead with evil that you think such nonsense.

reply to post by AeosGuru


Or perhaps your just too hardcore a christian to open your narrow mind and think outside of what a book(bible) tells you...

reply to post by Ghost in the Machine


If you're really interested in answering those questions, I'm sure some would be willing and the Bible does give answers to many of those questions as well, but all the ones that can be answered have been answered before on ATS/BTS if you search around.

However, you're putting forth a straw man argument. I never claimed the Bible explains it "all". I said it explains many of the "simple" questions people have by reading it front to back.

I suspect you're trying to ask questions that you suspect nobody has an answer to under the false idea that if one cannot answer all your questions, that the answer they gave to your orig question can be attacked and subverted as wrong. The reason is not because you're looking for answers. The reason is because you have an agenda to make others think like you do by asking questions in a subversive manner.

If you were really looking for answers you would simply say thanks to the thread participates for trying to answer your question and move along regardless of if you agree with their answers or not.

To continue asking further subversive questions in the hopes that one cannot answer one of your further questions so you can turn around and say, you guys don't know anything and are therefore wrong about everything!, is not only rude to me, but also everyone else that posted in the thread and tried to answer your question.

No, nobody knows everything and I'm sure you could keep asking questions until you came across one that nobody had an answer for. However, that doesn't change the fact that your orig question has been answered in my opinion regardless of if you agree with the answer or not. Furthermore, changing the topic mid thread would be rude to future thread contributors that don't have much free time to read the whole thread to see where the topic has gone astray.

Therefore, if you are really interested in asking your further questions I would recommend starting a new thread so thread readers can see what's being asked right in the OP very easily.

However, remember, that if no one can answer any further questions, that means nothing for the original question that has already been asked. If you wish to discuss that orig question further, I'm sure others would be willing though. For your other questions though I would recommend a new thread.

[edit on 10-2-2010 by tinfoilman]

reply to post by tinfoilman


Sorry but you assume too much about me. I dont ask a question unless I want an answer, Whether that asnwer is sufficient to satisfy me is a different matter. I will pursue a question untill I get an answer I am content with. In this case I havent recieved that answer.

Also, It is only human nature to ask "why" at everything, So dont nit pick and say that nobody has the answer to everything because I know that. Your not going to buy a car without first checking how much mileage per lt it gets, Same thing with religion, I'm not going to join one until I've learned as much as I can about it.