Charged with Stolen Valor (Military Award Fraud)

Folks,
I am curious as to your opinions on this case:

LINK TO STORY

Can anyone here defend the right to wear military awards that were not earned under the pretense of the First Amendment? Some claim that a person should be allowed to wear such awards. For the life of me, I cannot figure out why.

Thoughts?

MODS - I could not find any other mention of this story on the boards and put it where I thought it worked best. If it needs to be moved, please do so.


[edit on 7/2/10 by COOL HAND]

Pathetic.

Wearing awards you haven't earned effects many levels: personal honor, military honor, the social contract...it is an acid that eats the fabric of society, weakening bonds and breeding distrust.

To display unearned honors insults and demeans the actions of those who have earned them. By extension it mocks the entire structure of the military and its relation to the broader society. The social contract between a society and its military has always been a variation of this:

"We know we can't pay you enough or repay for the sacrifices you make or the hardships you endure on our behalf with monies or goods, so in place of those we will mark you as special in a way that will make people know their debt to you and offer you acknowledgement and honor."

When you wear unearned honors you cast doubt on the validity of all, attacking the concept itself.

Sad, pathetic, dishonorable.

Should he go to jail?

Maybe a month of isolation is about right, after being required to shame himself by touring military bases, VFWs, American Legion posts, and schools in the areas he within which he fraudulently presented himself and apologizing for his behavior.

Perhaps he might find some inner betterment for the process.

Then after he gets out, enlist him, train him, and send him to the worst hellhole available.

reply to post by COOL HAND


Its wrong! This act is against the UCMJ - I understand you are talking about non military people. IMHO it brings dishonour on those who earned the right to.

For what purpose do these people want to wear these medals? Most of these people would never join the military and their points of views are usually anti military which is why I say it would be disrespectful!

In the service when we catch someone it used to be reported and that soldier would become known as a PX Hero!

S n F for you to bring up the question and it will be interesting to hear what other ATS members have to say about this.

[edit on 2/7/2010 by IceHappy]

Originally posted by apacheman
Should he go to jail?

Maybe a month of isolation is about right, after being required to shame himself by touring military bases, VFWs, American Legion posts, and schools in the areas he within which he fraudulently presented himself and apologizing for his behavior.

Perhaps he might find some inner betterment for the process.

Then after he gets out, enlist him, train him, and send him to the worst hellhole available.

To answer your first question, yes.

As for the remainder of your post, I am not sure that would do any good. Someone who willingly wears awards they are not entitiled to will probably never understand what he did was wrong. No amount of apology that he can make will ever make things right.

The sad thing is that he was in the military for a time (assuming those claims are correct). If someone who actually served did this, there is no punishment available to fit that crime.

reply to post by COOL HAND


Jail no but sentience to read to the heroes coming home to the VA hospital at the least every Saturday and maybe several evenings. This way the Vet could have someone to talk to and maybe then the "Cannot come up with a postable name of someone who would do this", could learn what it means to respect those who wear one along with a Purple Heart!

Problem is if the Veterans in a VA hospital knew what this "Don't know what to call him did" may not even want this person in the hospital! If that is the case then they can do maintenance around the VA hospitals and therefore can see these soldiers day in and day out. Or maybe sit in a room where they can see a group of soldiers trying to talk about the guilt they feel with a one way mirror or on a monitor with speakers. There are many discussion groups with in a VA Hospital dealing with PTSD!


edited as you just posted the video

This guy makes my blood boil. I was thinking someone wearing one or two on camo jacket like John Lennon.....

JAIL!!! No Excuse for this.

I have been gone from the states for a while and did not know that a law was passed making this illegal. The man who answered the door when they knocked on his door was wearing a CIA badge baseball cap. Besides the Airborne Wings he is wearing a Pathfinders badge. Life expectancy of a Pathfinder doing his job behind lines is 3 seconds. I don't believe this man has what it takes to get through jump school as the Black Hats always rides the men who sport wing tattoos and many of those are picked on so bad that they don't make it through. I am thinking of Warren in my class. Good looking guy with a ton of excellent stories, everybodies best friend, very strong with a good build and I thought I would drop before him.

I cannot believe GW, who is without honour, passed the "stolen Valour" law.

[edit on 2/7/2010 by IceHappy]

...from the article...

In 2006, President George W. Bush signed into law the Stolen Valor Act. Anyone convicted in connection with impersonating a member of the military or stealing medals could receive up to a year in federal prison.

...but, of course, that little law doesnt apply to georgeee porgeee the disgraceful and constantly awol fake fighter pilot...

...the houston guy might be a con-artist but thats not illegal for politicians, so it shouldnt be illegal for citizens...

...where do you think that guy got all those medals?... garage sales, pawn shops or online would be my bet... so, what are the symbolism fanatics gonna do about that?... arrest and imprison anyone that sells a military medal because, according to georgee's bs law, they're a co-conspirator?... yeah, right, thats the way to protect our right to choose what we believe, what we honor, how we live...

reply to post by Wyn Hawks


There are a couple of online sites that sell these. The actual medal issued is a full size along with a ribbon and jacket button hole mini medal. The "Dress Blues" smaller size is usually purchased from the PX or military uniform store on base. In both outlets one needs to display their "original orders" of eligibility. This person would not be allowed in either shops on base therefore must have purchased these online. They sell everything online these days, except for the back bone to earn these awards. This jerk must have spent a lot of money on the uniform badges and awards.

I still think that when he is released from jail that he serve some time working in a VA hospital to give back some of the honour he tried to steal from our brave boys of todays war and very angry Viet Nam era Veterans. If nothing else to clean up litter around the hospital!

Originally posted by Wyn Hawks
...but, of course, that little law doesnt apply to georgeee porgeee the disgraceful and constantly awol fake fighter pilot...

...the houston guy might be a con-artist but thats not illegal for politicians, so it shouldnt be illegal for citizens...

...where do you think that guy got all those medals?... garage sales, pawn shops or online would be my bet... so, what are the symbolism fanatics gonna do about that?... arrest and imprison anyone that sells a military medal because, according to georgee's bs law, they're a co-conspirator?... yeah, right, thats the way to protect our right to choose what we believe, what we honor, how we live...

Can't you Bush bashers leave any postings here alone? This post is not about him, yet you people constantly drag him into anything he is even remotely attached to.

Bush served, and was discharged with an honorable discharge which has not been overturned. Move on, nothing more to see here.

As to the rest of your post. The guy was able to purchase his medals off of sites like Ebay. Your correct in that there is no system to ensure that people are buying medals and awards they are entitled to. There needs to be, but that is harder to implement as it would make things available that should not be.

How much honour is there in selling these medals?

I'm sorry, but the 'Military types' are being a bit precious in my opinion.

reply to post by Wyn Hawks


The focus of the law concerning awards and decorations is not to
limit the sale or possession. All the military medals are widely
available from several commercial sources.

The law is intended to stop folks from presenting themselves as for fee public speakers and stating they speak with the authority of someone who have experienced combat and has been recognised by the military for their personal valor under fire when it is not true.


Now as far as flying F102's for the Air National Guard, agreed by the late 1960's it was not much of a fighter but you still hard to go to
AF pilot training full time active duty for more than a year to get the assignment. If someone wanted skate by on their military service
there were over one hundred easier and safer ways to punch your ticket.

I was in military pilot training about the same time. There were a couple National Guard guys in every class of fifty or so. Everyone
knew they were going to go back to their home town and fly with their Guard Unit. The Guard student pilot were volunteers in the truest sense because they all had a way to avoid hazardous duty
and still fulfill their military obligation.

Originally posted by aorAki
How much honour is there in selling these medals?

I'm sorry, but the 'Military types' are being a bit precious in my opinion.

There is plenty of honor in selling these awards, to the right people. Some people have missplaced them and need to replace them and the only way they can is through mail order companies such as Ebay. Unless they retire from the military they lose the right to shop at the Uniform Stores.

Originally posted by COOL HAND

Originally posted by aorAki
How much honour is there in selling these medals?

I'm sorry, but the 'Military types' are being a bit precious in my opinion.

There is plenty of honor in selling these awards, to the right people. Some people have missplaced them and need to replace them and the only way they can is through mail order companies such as Ebay. Unless they retire from the military they lose the right to shop at the Uniform Stores.

If they misplaced them weren't they looking after them appropriately in the first place?

It seems curious that someone can be lambasted for wearing them after buying them legally because it's perceived as 'stolen honour' and then I'm told that people misplace them so obviously don't care much about them or curate them accordingly.

At the end of the day they are symbols, tokens , representations of honour, but nobody can take true honour from you, or pin it to your chest.

Originally posted by aorAki
If they misplaced them weren't they looking after them appropriately in the first place?

Because sometimes people misplace things. It happens.

It seems curious that someone can be lambasted for wearing them after buying them legally because it's perceived as 'stolen honour' and then I'm told that people misplace them so obviously don't care much about them or curate them accordingly.

It is stolen honor when they accept the praise of people who assume they earned those awards, not bought them off the internet. It is stolen honor when they take credit for things other people did as a way to make themselves look better.

At the end of the day they are symbols, tokens , representations of honour, but nobody can take true honour from you, or pin it to your chest.

Nope, but others can be convinced of your honor if they see you walking around with those medals on not realizing that you are not entitled to wear them in the first place.

reply to post by COOL HAND


Little known Veterans Benefit. The VA will send a vet a full set of medals for no cost. Fill out a few forms, awards listed on your DD214 will be sent to you. Expect to wait long enough that you forgot what you did and be surprised when they come in the mail.
(maybe it was three months)

Originally posted by whatwasthat
Little known Veterans Benefit. The VA will send a vet a full set of medals for no cost. Fill out a few forms, awards listed on your DD214 will be sent to you. Expect to wait long enough that you forgot what you did and be surprised when they come in the mail.
(maybe it was three months)

I was not aware of that.

Does it apply to all veterans, or just the ones who have been retired?

reply to post by COOL HAND


The benefit is for all veterans, go for it!

Try the va.gov website if you strike out ask me again and I will dig out the paperwork.

Originally posted by COOL HAND

It is stolen honor when they accept the praise of people who assume they earned those awards, not bought them off the internet. It is stolen honor when they take credit for things other people did as a way to make themselves look better.

Sure, I can appreciate that. Sort of like honour plagiarism so to speak.

Originally posted by COOL HANDNope, but others can be convinced of your honor if they see you walking around with those medals on not realizing that you are not entitled to wear them in the first place.

There are imposters everywhere.

[edit on 7-2-2010 by aorAki]

T
reply to post by whatwasthat


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Chapter 13 - Military Medals and Records
Replacing Military Medals
Medals awarded while in active service are issued by the individual military services if requested by veterans or their next of kin. Requests for replacement medals, decorations, and awards should be directed to the branch of the military in which the veteran served. However, for Air Force (including Army Air Corps) and Army veterans, the National Personnel Records Center (NPRC) verifies awards and forwards requests and verification to appropriate services.

Requests for replacement medals should be submitted on Standard Form 180, "Request Pertaining To Military Records," which may be obtained at VA offices or the Internet at www.va.gov... Forms, addresses, and other information on requesting medals can be found on the Military Personnel Records section of NPRC’s website at www.archives.gov... For questions, call Military Personnel Records at (314) 801-0800 or e-mail questions to: [email protected].

When requesting medals, type or clearly print the veteran’s full name, include the veteran’s branch of service, service number or Social Security number and provide the veteran’s exact or approximate dates of military service. The request must contain the signature of the veteran or next of kin if the veteran is deceased. If available, include a copy of the discharge or separation document, WDAGO Form 53-55 or DD Form 214.

Replacing Military Records
If discharge or separation documents are lost, veterans or the next of kin of deceased veterans may obtain duplicate copies by completing forms found on the Internet at www.archives.gov... and mailing or faxing them to the NPRC.

Alternatively, write the National Personnel Records Center, Military Personnel Records, 9700 Page Blvd., St. Louis, MO 63132-5100. Specify that a duplicate separation document is needed. The veteran’s full name should be printed or typed so that it can be read clearly, but

That was more answer than you need but buried in the reply is the info about getting medals sent to you at no cost.

Thank you for your service.

reply to post by COOL HAND


False impersonation of a military member or other official should not be covered by the First Amendment.