China's hawks demand cold war on the US

Originally posted by Sean48
The only country that sees War as a Stimulus package is the US.

That is so sadly naive. Could be because the American PEOPLE are the only ones who will talk about it. Have you ever thought about it that way?

Originally posted by Jakes51

China's hawks demand cold war on the US

www.timesonline.co.uk

Since when do we listen to this kind of propaganda BS?

MSM has an AGENDA - don't you anyone ever forget that!

Originally posted by Mdv2
Who do you think would replace China as the number one foreign lender? The few powers capable have their own economic problems or are unwilling to do so. China has already made the decision to keep the limit at around $800 billion and does not further increase this, whereas the US continues to spend more and more.

What do you think will happen to the global perception of America? It will strengthen the tendency that the US is incapable of ever paying off its debts, which will put downwards pressure on the US Dollar. Eventually, the credit rating of the US will be
downgraded with the result that borrowing becomes more expensive.

Once all the trust is gone, the US will effectively be bankrupt. Although China's investment is huge, it would in such a situation remain a huge loss, nothing more. For the US, on the other hand, it would be catastrophic and lead to great chaos on stock markets.

China is definitely unhappy with its loss on its US investment and finds itself in between a rock and a hard place, but the US certainly does either. If I would have to choose which of them is worse off, I'd undoubtedly choose the US.

What you are forgetting is that military power and economic power go hand in hand. It is all intermingled. The U.S. is strong militarily where China is strong (kind of) economically - but only IF debtors pay their debts. You cannot separate military might from economic might in analyzing world politics. Why do you think that the U.S. has not reduced military spending in these economic times? Because it is the big "stick" they have. China's "stick" is the fact that the U.S. and most of the world is indebted to them. Yes, they have a military but I don't see anyone arguing that they could go up against the U.S. military and win. On the other hand, the U.S. does still have an economy - one that would benefit from war with China.

As far as the global perception of the U.S. goes, as long as the U.S. has the big stick, our allies, although they may not like it privately, will go along with it. What choice do they have? The Middle East may have a different reaction but they already do.

I know I hate thinking this way, I really do just want us all to get along, but you asked and the reality in the current world is that TPTB DO like war and money.

[edit on 7/2/2010 by Iamonlyhuman]

reply to post by watchZEITGEISTnow


It may be a stage play, or NWO propaganda as you say? It as though our benevolent press are creating a Tom Clancy novel with today's headlines.
So, at least you can find the entertainment merits in all of this, if nothing else.

Get your sunglasses ready to shield your eyes from the nuclear explosion, and when the dust settles we can make smores in the fires left behind. On a somber note, something is going on and global peace may hang in the balance, if these knuckleheads don't tone it down a bit. Hopefully, we can both agree on that, regardless of what mysterious cabal is pulling the strings for this to happen.

[edit on 7-2-2010 by Jakes51]

China would loose a cold war against America IMHO. The way I see it is China needs natural resources (coal gas etc) from the free world to feed their rapidly expanding middle class. They also rely heavily on trade. Cold war trade sanctions would put an end to all of that real quick and China would fall in a heap.

IRM

[edit on 7/2/10 by InfaRedMan]

Originally posted by Iamonlyhuman

Originally posted by Mdv2
Who do you think would replace China as the number one foreign lender? The few powers capable have their own economic problems or are unwilling to do so. China has already made the decision to keep the limit at around $800 billion and does not further increase this, whereas the US continues to spend more and more.

What do you think will happen to the global perception of America? It will strengthen the tendency that the US is incapable of ever paying off its debts, which will put downwards pressure on the US Dollar. Eventually, the credit rating of the US will be
downgraded with the result that borrowing becomes more expensive.

Once all the trust is gone, the US will effectively be bankrupt. Although China's investment is huge, it would in such a situation remain a huge loss, nothing more. For the US, on the other hand, it would be catastrophic and lead to great chaos on stock markets.

China is definitely unhappy with its loss on its US investment and finds itself in between a rock and a hard place, but the US certainly does either. If I would have to choose which of them is worse off, I'd undoubtedly choose the US.

What you are forgetting is that military power and economic power go hand in hand. It is all intermingled. The U.S. is strong militarily where China is strong (kind of) economically - but only IF debtors pay their debts. You cannot separate military might from economic might in analyzing world politics. Why do you think that the U.S. has not reduced military spending in these economic times? Because it is the big "stick" they have. China's "stick" is the fact that the U.S. and most of the world is indebted to them. Yes, they have a military but I don't see anyone arguing that they could go up against the U.S. military and win. On the other hand, the U.S. does still have an economy - one that would benefit from war with China.

As far as the global perception of the U.S. goes, as long as the U.S. has the big stick, our allies, although they may not like it privately, will go along with it. What choice do they have? The Middle East may have a different reaction but they already do.

I know I hate thinking this way, I really do just want us all to get along, but you asked and the reality in the current world is that TPTB DO like war and money.

[edit on 7/2/2010 by Iamonlyhuman]

son, i know exactly what you're trying to say. you are saying china is no match for us in a war. i would agree 10 years ago, but after vietnam and iraq, i just don't know. our military looks good in movies but if you can't beat men in straw hat and black pajamas, your fate is obvious.

Originally posted by DOADOA
son, i know exactly what you're trying to say. you are saying china is no match for us in a war. i would agree 10 years ago, but after vietnam and iraq, i just don't know. our military looks good in movies but if you can't beat men in straw hat and black pajamas, your fate is obvious.

Why then has no one EVER attacked the U.S. on U.S. soil? How many other major (actually, minor too) countries can say that? Why do you think that is? I guess you're going to point out terrorist attacks here but are those really war OR more importantly, were those really enemies? Lol, lots of people think they were our own government. Ok, I don't know but I digress anyway...

Edit to add: Ok, I remembered one... Pearl Harbor.


[edit on 7/2/2010 by Iamonlyhuman]

My take:

China is facing more and more internal problems and they are slowly but surely reaching the boiling point.

So the Party made up their minds to distract the populace with some good old xenophobian BS to keep them quiet.

But I'll be further looking in to this. Thanks for the interesting thread.


Of course the Chinese know that their military is based on a purely defensive doctrine and is neither equipped nor trained to act outside the regional Chinese theater of operations.
It all depends on the scenario of a new cold war. While the chinese may have more economic swaying power than the UdSSR had, they lack the operational capabilities the russians had to hurt american interests decisively on a borad range before suffering the retalition. That is if we are talking conventional war, of course.

[edit on 7-2-2010 by NichirasuKenshin]

In the words of Dennis Leary: "We've got the bombs, ok? Nuclear f**king weapons!"


I don't know if a Cold War would be feasible for either party simply because of the fact that the US and China have developed almost a symbiotic relationship. If we stopped buying Chinese goods (crap), the Chinese economy would sink, whereas if they stopped exporting to the US, once again, we'd both be sunk, so I think it's a lose-lose situation.

Originally posted by InfaRedMan
China would loose a cold war against America IMHO. The way I see it is China needs natural resources (coal gas etc) from the free world to feed their rapidly expanding middle class. They also rely heavily on trade. Cold war trade sanctions would put an end to all of that real quick and China would fall in a heap.
IRM
[edit on 7/2/10 by InfaRedMan]

Perhaps you have not heard China has signed a $60Billion coal import deal with Australia. It's the biggest deal of Australia. China exports are from countries like Africa, Pakistan..they only export to US majority. Do you think US exports any raw material to China? Lol

Edit to add news link:

SYDNEY (AFP) – Australian miner Resourcehouse said Saturday it had signed a 60-billion-US-dollar coal deal with energy-hungry China, calling it the country's "biggest-ever export contract."

Australia's Resourcehouse signs $60 bln deal with China

[edit on 7-2-2010 by December_Rain]

Originally posted by truthseeker1984
In the words of Dennis Leary: "We've got the bombs, ok? Nuclear f**king weapons!"

US is not alone, many countries have them.

I don't know if a Cold War would be feasible for either party simply because of the fact that the US and China have developed almost a symbiotic relationship. If we stopped buying Chinese goods (crap), the Chinese economy would sink, whereas if they stopped exporting to the US, once again, we'd both be sunk, so I think it's a lose-lose situation.

US is already broke and it's citizen morale is low due to war except few neo conservatives who still drool over Bush. American army is engaged in different places around the world. China is not in any war, it has all the required military power at home.

Originally posted by December_Rain

Originally posted by truthseeker1984
In the words of Dennis Leary: "We've got the bombs, ok? Nuclear f**king weapons!"

US is not alone, many countries have them.

I don't know if a Cold War would be feasible for either party simply because of the fact that the US and China have developed almost a symbiotic relationship. If we stopped buying Chinese goods (crap), the Chinese economy would sink, whereas if they stopped exporting to the US, once again, we'd both be sunk, so I think it's a lose-lose situation.

US is already broke and it's citizen morale is low due to war except few neo conservatives who still drool over Bush. American army is engaged in different places around the world. China is not in any war, it has all the required military power at home.

Very true (and I hate the neo conservatives), but I question their capabilities to actually invade the "homefront" as it were. Honestly, if any war were to happen between these two superpowers, it would be a war of numbers and button pushing more than a war of troops and ground forces.

reply to post by December_Rain


Well yeah I have actually. I'm an Aussie and well aware of the deal. However, if the USA found itself in a cold war with China, it's likely that that deal would dissolve or at least freeze.

At the end of the day we are allies to America firstly. Of course we are talking about a SHTF situation here where nations must decide sides. If China got into a war (cold or otherwise) with the US, Australia would not support China's war effort.

IRM

[edit on 8/2/10 by InfaRedMan]

Um doubtful. Protest in the US, you get rubber bullets and tear gas, sometimes when you get too enthusiastic. In China, you get tanks.


Posted Via ATS Mobile: m.abovetopsecret.com

like china can really do anything.

All the US has to do is enforce the US and international rules on trade, toxins counterfeit US products and china using prison labor in its factories.

And if we force or make agreements with other countries to ban counterfeit US products from being sold in there countries.

If we start sending back all the good with toxins or made by prison labor or being subsidised by the Chinese government to undercut US markets it would hurt china big time.

In some countries they arrest ships that are caught bring counterfeit products into there countries.

It under admralty law could be done to ships carrying counterfeited US goods. Since many of these goods come from china on ships owned by the Chinese government this would hurt china.
www.maritimelawcenter.com...

[edit on 8-2-2010 by ANNED]

China has also purchased up to $10 billion in top US firms including Bank of America, Citi group and Apple.

There is growing signs, that during this potential trade war, China will start to increase purchasing of American corporate shares. It's a successful method to keep Washington in line.