Either this is the biggest military exercise ever, or something is up.

I have heard that there has recently been a fleet of bombers moved to Anderson AB, Guam as part of an excercise..i'll look for a link

Originally posted by Facefirst

Come on! There are many, many, many amatuer and independent professional Astronomers around the world. Don't you think one of them would have blown the whistle by now? Or is this a stealth asteroid or comet?

Most of the stargazing both professional and amateur takes place in the northern hemisphere. The only full time governmental search was suspended a few years back in Australia. If the 'object' was coming in from the far south it may well be missed and not need be stealth at all.

I posted another thread about increased military activity over the skies.

Now we have increased naval activity.
In my air thread, I mentioend the fact that similar things are going on in Russia. They also have had alot of airpower buzzing about thier skies.

Now, thier navy is out running about. So, we know something is up between the two former superpowers.

What is up? The obvious thing that everyone on this board save a handful of dedicated souls are ignoring:

May 1st, 10 new countries joined the EU. Almost everyone of those countries is right on Russia's dorrstep. That means NATO, its former adversary and still foe is right there on Russia's doorstep. No Warsaw buffer countries anymore like in the good old days. Nope, folks, NATO is staring the great Red Monster right in the face.

Take into consideration also we have forces in Afghanistan, Iraq.....maybe Iran soon. When one loks at the map, and considers NATO is moving its forces eastward into former soviet republics and Warsaw pact countries.....

It looks like we got the Russkies surrounded. At least, thats what the Russians, paranoid as ever, are thinking.

And thier paranoia is our problem too. What scares the Russians also scares our national security, because Russia often acts on thier fears.

So, what we have here is posturing on both sides. Russia remionding the west that they still can hold thier own. And the US flying about, showing the Russians not to do anything stupid. And both are training hard for the possibility of an upcoming conflict as we encroach closer and closer into Russia's personal space.

By the way, a Kilo class sub is nothing to get worried about. Not only are they easy as hell to spot, they are crap. 1950's or 1960's era submarines, diesel fueled, so they cant stay submerged and hidden for long. The presence of the Kilo is probably sending peals of laughter all up and down the Atlantic coast. Nothing to worry about folks.

We have the USS Lincoln up here north of Seattle in Everett, just returing from the Gulf, my mopm lives in Everett now, ill ask her if anything is going on up there, cuz if the navy does anything, everyone and thier hamnster knows abiut it there.

Originally posted by Skadi_the_Evil_Elf
By the way, a Kilo class sub is nothing to get worried about. Not only are they easy as hell to spot, they are crap. 1950's or 1960's era submarines, diesel fueled, so they cant stay submerged and hidden for long. The presence of the Kilo is probably sending peals of laughter all up and down the Atlantic coast. Nothing to worry about folks.

Skadi,
Not sure if you saw this or not. It may change your opinion of the Kilo class subs:

LINK

Trying to find and track one is a bitch.

BTW I think that people here are way overreacting to this whole thing. Believe it or not the US Navy is just doing some training. Remember the old saying,"to secure peace is to prepare for war?"

Oh, im aware of the specifications on the Kilo class subs.

They still will get smoked easily by Aegis or any of our SSNs. The main thing being, they are diesel. They cant stay submerged and quiet for very long, and cant really hack the deep sea either. They are mostly for coastal operations. They have to be refueled often, unlike nuke subs, which can stay low and silent for alot longer.

Seawolfs and our various anti sub choppers would make short work of this thing should they consider it a threat.

And I dont think people are overreacting. In the past few months, its easy to see signifigant political events have been occuring. Especially concerning the former soviet bloc. To ignore whats going on is pure foolishness.

I think the old NATO / Russia conflict has really run it's course. None of the newly formed exUSSR states would have anything to gain by supporting a war against Russia. Neither would the rest of Europe for that matter.

Russia's natural ally is Europe, and vica-versa. Until 100 years ago our cultures were pretty much the same, and the errors or the last century will be quickly forgotten. Russia has a huge amount to gain by joining the European economic powerhouse, and Europe in turn would benefit from the natural resources, technical expertise and military strength of Russia.

I guess I'm saying that if there IS something going on, you can pretty safely rule out Russia as a potential enemy.

Originally posted by Skadi_the_Evil_Elf
Oh, im aware of the specifications on the Kilo class subs.

They still will get smoked easily by Aegis or any of our SSNs. The main thing being, they are diesel. They cant stay submerged and quiet for very long, and cant really hack the deep sea either. They are mostly for coastal operations. They have to be refueled often, unlike nuke subs, which can stay low and silent for alot longer.

Seawolfs and our various anti sub choppers would make short work of this thing should they consider it a threat.

I'm curious as to what you base your assessment on? Since you apparently know the Kilo's specifics than perhaps you can tell me why you think that it can easily beat an AEGIS ship. You do realize that AEGIS is for anti-air and anti-missile defence, right? AEGIS won't help you if someone fires a torpedo at you.

You do also realize that a submerged diesel radiates less noise than a nuclear submarine, right? So, how would you propose to find this sub if he is submerged. Depending on the condition of the batteries and the speed used a Kilo can comfortably stay submerged for longer than you might think.

One thing that would happen if a meteor hit the ocean is that it would instantly flash boil millions of tons of water and push that steam out in a shock wave. The theory of boats going out to avoid the tsunami is justifiable however, we're assuming that an impact tidal wave would behave similar to one that was generated in the ground(IE earthquake).

I myself work in the marine industry and would rather take my chances in the mountains of BC than out on the water. Of course that's assuming that this is all real. I'll let you know my answer June 18th(that's if I'm still sober)

You seem to forget that AEGIS ships are also equipped with anti sub helicopters that can detect submerged subs easy. And Kilos arent that quiet. Not with the type of sonars, towed arrays, ect that the navy has.

Add to that the fact the Iranians are operating it. Iran. What the hell would they know about naval operations? Nothing. The afghans probably know more than them.

Asteroids,Terrorism,UFO's,Witches and Goblins................

Who should we blame, what should we make of it??????????

Many times in the past and many times in the future the US Navy will have their Carrier groups at sea at the same time. Not all of course, some need overhaul or repair, but all operational Carriers. They sometimes meet at sea and have war games. They operate together to practice many drills, such as manuver, protect and attack drills.

Asteroids..............Not likely. But makes for real suspense......I'm scared already.

We have two Vice Admirals, One Captain and two Lt's in our family and my son is also in. And belive me if we were going to have a Asteroid drop in our pond we would be told. Yes, we do talk.

Don't move to the mountains yet. Give it aweek or two....haha

I agree with the white trash valkerie, Just because it's an old diesel sub does not make it deadly, far from it. Many things can make noise on a sub it's not just engine noise. One quote I read on the web about hunting Iran's subs. was from a US intelligence official who described the process as a "live fire exercise." I'm not so sure the Iranians are up to the US Navies level yet.

Variable

Originally posted by energy_wave
I allready posted this information it the thread...

Very Scary End Of The World Article


They are moving them away from the naval ports because when the impact occurs the tidal wave would destroy them.

It's all about the impending impact.

And, where is the proof of the tidal wave? Scientific proof that scientists have proven?

EW, sorry... but, I think people just got a little too paranoid about the "Day After Tomorrow" and decided to rush to say it's the end of the world.

The Navy was planning on this deploy long before the movie was thought of to my knowledge, it's just a training mission.

I read on a different board that the Chinese are conducting "exercises" off of the coast of Taiwan . Maybe the "powers that be" know a little more about that than we do. Just a guess, WW3 right around the corner?

[edit on 5-6-2004 by simtek]

Originally posted by kirain
I readily admit I am not versed with the goings on of the Navy, but, is it possible that this exercise has something to do with the "Show of Force" off the coast of West Africa?

www.spacewar.com...

Here is part of what was said in the article.

"The navy wants, through this exercise, to demonstrate to the world that, even with all its current responsibilities, it can still position half-a-dozen aircraft carriers with all the neccessary support ships in the four corners of the world, at the same time," he said.

And some more.

With crude prices -- and hence the pump price for US fuel consumers -- near all-time highs, and with violence and sabotage threatening to disrupt oil exports from Saudi Arabia and US-occupied Iraq, US policy makers are increasingly looking to west Africa for secure crude supplies.

That explanation sounds better than any others Ive heard. Dont know though.

[edit on 6-6-2004 by ScoFe]

Originally posted by Skadi_the_Evil_Elf
You seem to forget that AEGIS ships are also equipped with anti sub helicopters that can detect submerged subs easy. And Kilos arent that quiet. Not with the type of sonars, towed arrays, ect that the navy has.

You seem to forget that not all AEGIS ships come with helicopters, only the DDG Flight IIA's and CG's have them embarked at all times. You do realize that SONAR can be defeated if you know what you are doing, right?

You may want to do some research into anecholic tiles, that might clear some things up for you. As I said before, the loudest submerged diesel running on its batteries is still quieter than the quietest nuke.

Add to that the fact the Iranians are operating it. Iran. What the hell would they know about naval operations? Nothing. The afghans probably know more than them.

If that was the case then we would not spend so much time doing ASW work in the Persian Gulf now would we?


[edit on 6/6/04 by COOL HAND]

As I said before, the loudest submerged diesel running on its batteries is still quieter than the quietest nuke.

Yes but, your completely ignoring the other half of the equation. They can't stay on batteries forever; they are also very slow while on batteries and the effectiveness of the submarine largely a matter of the skill of the crew.
877EKM
Just because the submarine running on batteries has a quiet engine, does not equate to "deadly threat to the US mainland," you are glossing over all their downsides and playing up the one advantage they have, quiet engines WHEN running on batteries. You work for the Navy ?

Russia has sold these subs to everyone and their brother it seems, the US Navy, no doubt, has gotten lots of practice finding their weaknesses and improved their ability to kill the 877.

We always have heard about how great Russian equipment is/was but, so far, when it comes to put up or shut up time, the US has been kicking the hell out of Russky hardware.

IMHO anyway

Variable

Originally posted by Variable
Yes but, your completely ignoring the other half of the equation. They can't stay on batteries forever; they are also very slow while on batteries and the effectiveness of the submarine largely a matter of the skill of the crew.
877EKM
Just because the submarine running on batteries has a quiet engine, does not equate to "deadly threat to the US mainland," you are glossing over all their downsides and playing up the one advantage they have, quiet engines WHEN running on batteries. You work for the Navy ?

They don't need to stay on them forever. They can make their attacks and then move off to a safe area. It would be easy to slip away with all of the confussion that would be generated by the attack. The US Navy is giving up the ability to handle long range ASW work from the carriers with the removal of that role from the S-3. Now you can continue the engagement so long as it is within the range of your helicopters.

Conventional subs have many advantages (too many to list here) and the only downsides to them are the fact that they do not all have AIPs yet, and that they are limited in range by the fuel they carry. Once they have AIPs on them, the Diesel Electric sub will be the quietest thing out there.

USS George Washington was planning to hold adventure courses for the kids of sailors during the Summer but unexpectedly had to cancel.

According to what I have read on the internet, Summer Pulse 04 operation was planned back in December, so why did they cancel just a few days ago?

Maybe because something is up?




www.spear.navy.mil...

Keep in mind, for every kilo out there, a friendly is close behind.

There are rumors that a nasty situation of some kind is brewing in the Indonesian area. There may also be heightened tension over the Spratley Islands, an oil rich area claimed by a number of countries including China. Add in Taiwan, and North Korea, and there are plenty of reasons we might want to increase Naval presence in the Far East.

However, the exercises seem to involve both coasts and, if directed toward any hidden purpose, that purpose would have to be global. Rather than be alarmed NOW, I would wait a bit. This year has been full of exercises and practice drills for potential calamity. If we are following good planning, then I would expect the Real Thing to be six months away, at the soonest.

When the ships come back in, we can all breathe a sigh of relief. When they all go out the next time - - - that's when we head for the bunker.