Want to see how a "communist" looks like ?

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/c3fa633b761a.jpg[/atsimg]

"All my money has been invested into experiments with which I have made new discoveries enabling mankind to have a little easier life"

en.wikiquote.org...

Nice. Then what happened ?

This :
Gospel of consumption

"Machines can save labor, but only if they go idle when we possess enough of what they can produce. In other words, the machinery offers us an opportunity to work less, an opportunity that as a society we have chosen not to take. Instead, we have allowed the owners of those machines to define their purpose: not reduction of labor, but “higher productivity”—and with it the imperative to consume virtually everything that the machinery can possibly produce."


More links for your information :
Story of Stuff
Amazing pictures - pollution in CHINA
Child labor
Crash Course

And Mark Twain about the factories in his time:
en.wikipedia.org...

"It is some more Moral Sense. The proprietors are rich, and very holy; but the wage they pay to these poor brothers and sisters of theirs is only enough to keep them from dropping dead with hunger. The work-hours are fourteen per day, winter and summer—from six in the morning till eight at night—little children and all. And they walk to and from the pigsties which they inhabit—four miles each way, through mud and slush, rain, snow, sleet, and storm, daily, year in and year out. They get four hours of sleep. They kennel together, three families in a room, in unimaginable filth and stench; and disease comes, and they die off like flies. Have they committed a crime, these mangy things? No. What have they done, that they are punished so? Nothing at all, except getting themselves born into your foolish race. You have seen how they treat a misdoer there in the jail; now you see how they treat the innocent and the worthy. Is your race logical? Are these ill-smelling innocents better off than that heretic? Indeed, no; his punishment is trivial compared with theirs. They broke him on the wheel and smashed him to rags and pulp after we left, and he is dead now, and free of your precious race; but these poor slaves here—why, they have been dying for years, and some of them will not escape from life for years to come. It is the Moral Sense which teaches the factory proprietors the difference between right and wrong—you perceive the result. They think themselves better than dogs. Ah, you are such an illogical, unreasoning race! And paltry—oh, unspeakably!"


[edit on 6-2-2010 by pai mei]

Communism = Whats yours is ours now.

Marxist = Whats mine could be ours.

Capitalist = Whats mine is mine.

Socialist = Whats yours is mine.

Seems more like an innovator to me.

Explain why you mean communism

reply to post by GreenBicMan


Machines were invented to free people from work. He said it himself. He said he used his own money - so he was not a "capitalist", doing stuff for money. Machines were instead used by capitalists - so now we have to consume and consume again, else no job for us. I mean : we produce and instead using what we produce, we have to buy it, then we have to produce again to get paid. Mental hospital society.

In a sane society - we would cooperate, like Tesla dreamed -and like he behaved himself, use our inventions, work less, consume less, and not turn the planet into money so fast.

Search the definition of "communism". It has nothing to do with Stalin, China of today, or evil dictators. See the link above about child labor. The people who revolted in 1918 - had no intention of creating totalitarian regimes. You wold be a "communist" too if you lived in that time, worked 16 hours, no vacation, and you could be fired any time. If injured - no "compensation". All the rights you enjoy today at work were won by people who revolted against greed and exploitation.

Child labor in 1800: en.wikipedia.org...

[edit on 6-2-2010 by pai mei]

reply to post by pai mei


Hmm...

Seems like efficiency to me.

Things naturally become more efficient or you will get eaten by the bigger fish.

That may sound big business like to you but I do not hunt for food and forge for berries either so its not like I'm living in the 1700's.

reply to post by GreenBicMan


I am not against technology. I am all for "invent better machines, that can make the work of 100000 people". After that : use them. You have not read the article in the first post :

"It was an attractive vision, and it worked. Not only did Kellogg prosper, but journalists from magazines such as Forbes and BusinessWeek reported that the great majority of company employees embraced the shorter workday. One reporter described “a lot of gardening and community beautification, athletics and hobbies . . . libraries well patronized and the mental background of these fortunate workers . . . becoming richer.”

reply to post by pai mei


I'm still not getting it.

I think it still boils down to bigger fish eating little fish.

People are social beings. They seek a community, they like to participate - for free when they find one. Look at this forum, what do you get from writing here ? Look at the internet - how many free programs are there.

More links for your information :

Prisoner exchange
"School"
The machine in our heads



I mean : we could cooperate, use the machines - to obtain what we need, no money, no banks involved, after that freedom. To live. That thing some say they will do when they get old.



[edit on 6-2-2010 by pai mei]

reply to post by pai mei


What do I get from writing here?

Besides a few good laughs, cheap entertainment filling in the gaps of my otherwise currently boring life I suppose.

But don't you live in a paradox because you are using a machine to talk to me?

reply to post by GreenBicMan


Do I need to quote myself ? When did I say I am against machines ?

Originally posted by GreenBicMan

I think it still boils down to bigger fish eating little fish.

Probably right

reply to post by pai mei


You are against efficiency and look down upon prosperity in reality IMO.

I can't see otherwise, but I respect your right to believe in anything you want if I can't sway your opinion.

I don't care about Marx, he was wrong. I am not against "prosperity". I am for an easier life for all, meaning no more homeless ,no more people wasting their lives producing stuff that needs to be thrown out else they have no jobs. As Tesla said "I invented these for people to have an easier life".
Imagine an alien civilization. They invent something. They use it - for the benefit of all.
Want more ? Work more, I am not against it. Build yourself a palace. Maybe my purpose in life is different.

Also for those who call themselves "Christians" - Jesus was a communist. He trashed the ancient bankers tables, and gave everybody fish for free ! I myself am not Christian or any religion, more like an "animist".



[edit on 6-2-2010 by pai mei]

reply to post by pai mei


Why does an alien civilization have to have those predefined rules. It sounds like you want to live in a reality that you have created for yourself in your head. That's cool man, but in "reality" we have people that range from all different personalities (obviously) and that doesn't work in real world application. That's just more hippie talk IMO.

But that's just my opinion and really worthless as well, so you should continue to believe what you want to really, and I'm sure you will.

[edit on 6-2-2010 by GreenBicMan]

reply to post by In nothing we trust

Communism = Whats yours is ours now.

Marxist = Whats mine could be ours.

Capitalist = Whats mine is mine.

Socialist = Whats yours is mine.

You forgot one.
American
Whats a countires is ours after we make up b.s. to invade it.

reply to post by GreenBicMan


The world was communist for millions of years. Until "civilization" invaded.

As a child I understood how to give, I have forgotten this grace since I have become civilized.

-Luther Standing Bear, Oglala


Now we rediscover ourselves. The iron wall of civilization - is quickly build around any new person that comes into this world. But "grass grows trough the asphalt".Or on it. It does not care.

paimei01.blogspot.com...

Primitive ideas or tribal ideas, kinship, solidarity, community, direct democracy, diversity, harmony with nature provide the framework or foundation of any rational or sane society. Today, these primal ideas, gifts of our ancestral heritage, are blocked from entering consciousness. The vast majority of modern people cannot see the basic truths that our ancient ancestors knew and that we must know again, about living within the balance of nature. We are lost in endless political debates, scientific research, and compromises because what is self-evident to the primitive mind has been forgotten.

For hundreds of thousands of years, until the beginning of civilization about 10,000 years ago, humans lived in tribal societies, which produced tribal consciousness a set of workable ideas or guiding principles concerning living together successfully on a diverse and healthy planet. The invasion of civilization into one tribal locale after another, around the globe, has been so swift and deadly that we may speak of the trauma of civilization. Because tribal peoples were unprepared and unable to deal with the onslaught of civilization, tribal consciousness was driven underground, becoming something forbidden and dangerous. Conquered peoples became afraid to think and act according to the old ways, on pain of death. There is much fear that lies at the origin of civilization.

[edit on 6-2-2010 by pai mei]

reply to post by pai mei


I don't know man, thats pretty out there for me.

Don't you just like the sound of driving a ferrari and dominating financial markets? Thats my reality in my head, akin to the one you have in yours. I hope we both find our "happy place".

So all scientists are communists if they are trying to enhance human capabilities for doing work?

Sounds like we have another Joseph McCarthy here to me.

reply to post by bsbray11


The scientist that does not care about profit, works - to help others is a "communist". And about "work". When you do what you like, your passion, does not matter if other people see it as "work", that is not "work". It's what you like. If you would do it for free - that is not work.

Originally posted by pai mei
[atsimg]
"All my money has been invested into experiments with which I have made new discoveries enabling mankind to have a little easier life"

Interesting.

I would like to point out that people say the "I spent all my money on such and such" line quite often.

But, in fact, the T-Man is wearing a damn fine looking suit, is rather well groomed, and seems to be somewhat relaxed after a solid meal.

He didn't spend ALL his money on his experiments.