Christians Desecrate Wiccan Religious Site at Air Force Academy

Originally posted by superrat
So this is all bull.

You can't desecrate something that is not holy so it is not like painting a pentagram on a Church. A cross is a holy relic, a pagan site is one that is given over to worshiping the dark forces, if anything the site desecrated the cross.

I dunno where you're seeing "dark forces" here, but I'll take Tengri and Etugen over any Jewish cadaver with a sword-tongue and blood-soaked robes anyway.

Besides, if even one pagan got the message and abandoned their ways and became saved, it was worth it. It's a abomination that this got as far as it did. What next? A government funded altar for Satanists so they can do human sacrifice.

Pro tip for would-be missionaries; Being a douche doesn't win converts.

And by the by, Satanists don't sacrifice people. Most of them just wear stupid hairstyles and listen to Czechoslovakian men screaming into microphones while pretending they can play the guitar.

Enough is enough. If Americans don't stand up for right against spiritual evil, then we will regret it when we experience his wrath.

Ironically you as a christian seem to have no issue with the fact all of this is occurreing at an academy for the Air Force, a branch of the US military that is becoming (in)famous for blowing up weddings and then going "Oh... oops". Now, I never met the guy, but I can't imagine Jesus would be too thrilled with a hellfire missile asploding a bunch of partygoers celebrating the nuptuals of a happy couple, regardless of their faith.

Guess this is what you find in obamas People's republick of the United states

Better a people's republic than a theocratic wasteland

That's a shame. Really doubt it was any true Christian believers though, as some have already pointed out. An objective and humble devotee of any faith can see that Wicca is the only faith out there that successfully embraces and agrees with the most positive concepts of Judeo-Christian belief and can reconcile it with the more esoteric aspects of Eastern religion/philosophy, meaning of course Buddhism, Confucianism, etc.
In other words F*CK ALL THAT NOISE! lol I think that the enlightened of any school of thought can recognize the ancient faith of Nature based worship as a completely valid and profound kind of relationship with God/Whatever you like to call it.

Anyway.....HAPPY (slightly belated) IMBOLC!

reply to post by CelticFire417


Oh, cut with the scotsman fallacy.

The people who put this cross up were christians. They were just as true a christian as any other. Being a jackas doesn't mean you're not a christian, any more than being christian means you're not a jackass. And the same goes for every other religion as well.

Plain fact is, most people are jerks, no matter what they worship, and pretending that one religion in particular is especially jerk-free by definition is laughable.

The problem with Christians is they only give lip service to the teachings of Christ. Most of them only know what the hateful racist zealots tell them from the pulpit. If they would just lead the lives that Jesus taught them to, others would look at them and say "Wow, how can I be like that?" Instead they do everything that Christ preached against while calling themselves "Christians".

I say this to all the faiths in this thread. Please before you post anything else, PLEASE educate yourself on the cross. This was not a dexecration, we who know the faith well, would not get offended by the cross because

The last of the four questions was why many varieties of the cross of four equal arms, which certainly was not a representation of an instrument of execution, were accepted by Christians as symbols of the Christ before any cross which could possibly have been a representation of an instrument of execution was given a place among the symbols of Christianity; while even nowadays one variety of the cross of four equal arms is the favourite symbol of the Greek Church, and both it and the other varieties enter into the ornamentation of our sacred properties and dispute the supremacy with the cross which has one of its arms longer than the other three.

Pursuing these matters for himself, the author eventually found that even before our era the cross was venerated by many as the symbol of Life; though our works of reference seldom mention this fact, and never do it justice.

You can read the entire article here, I encourage you to.


Source

More proof that the Military Academies of all branches (but especially the AFA) are infested with partisan/religious bigots. Anyone who knows someone of a non-christian faith that attended the AFA knows that this is not just a minor, singular incident. I thought that things got somewhat better after "With god on our side" by Harvey Weinstein got published, his campaign really did some good - but after all this shows that the dominionist mindset pushed there by some people is still alive, wealthy, and not ready to give up the part of the government that they so heavily worked to infest the last 30 years.

At least it's crosses, not jews, that get physically attacked nowadays at the AFA. That's some kind of progress, albeit a very american version of progress.

edited for grammar. don't know if it helped much.

[edit on 4-2-2010 by NichirasuKenshin]

Originally posted by JohnnyCanuck

Originally posted by Carseller4
They desecrated a religious site by placing a cross there?

Really?

Sorry but I can't stop......

I bet when the rock worshipers showed up they were very upset! "Oh my rock, someone put a cross by our group of rocks." Rock damn them!

I'm still.......

So, you wouldn't mind me painting a pentagram on the walls of your church, then? Mighty tolerant of you.

You can draw whatever you want on my wall.

A symbol only has the power that you give to it.

God is invisible and therefore has no symbol. The cross is not a symbol of God.

Jesus Christ is God manifest. He is not a symbol -- He is the bridge to God.

I still don't get why the cross is used as a symbol for Christianity. THE CROSS IS PAGAN.

Strange that the pagan's would be so offended. But alas, a kingdom divided against itself will not stand...


Which is why the pagan Christians and the pagan witches have sooooo much in common.

Originally posted by jerico65
Then why did the Wiccans need a special built (with government funds) outdoor worship area if religion is a private matter?

Sorry no one has answered your question effectively as yet.

The answer is simply this; Wicca like all other nature/earth loving belief systems see that the outdoors is God's Creation.. for want of better words to use... and so it appears ludicrous to confine yourself indoors away from the beauty of nature.

reply to post by Wertdagf

Excellently said. As I read more and more of your posts I am really beginning to like you... most times

Originally posted by TheWalkingFox


The people who put this cross up were christians.

You were there?

Please share with us the details.

Strange that the pagan's would be so offended. But alas, a kingdom divided against itself will not stand...

I'm sure that not one paagan complained about this, it was set up and given to the media to incite more distrust and ignorance about us and shed a negative light unto our beleifs, as I have stated before, people need to educate themselves... It's media propeganda, at it's worse and I don't know why any intellectual person can't see that!!!!

This article interested me very much, and I hope that after one reads my post one can understand that, in the Air Force, non-Christians, in general, are frowned upon and regularly harassed/abused.
For one, I am an Air Force Veteran. I was an Electronic Warfare Systems Technician, AFSC 2A0X1D. The system I worked with was a drop pod that went on to A-10 aircraft.
When I was stationed at my base I had a fellow airman who was a Mormon priest. Now, I do not portend to know the ins and outs of the Mormon faith, and we would talk about his religion on an ongoing basis, not in an argument situation, but I have always been interested in other cultures, whether religious or secular. Now, he claimed that he had to wear ritual undergarments that we not supposed to be touched by gentiles, which is what he called all non-Mormons. While in boot camp, he explained this to the military training instructor (MTI). The MTI told him that the airman would not be allowed to wear said garments. The airman finally contacted a Mormon chaplain, whether at Lackland AFB or somewhere else, I do not know, but the chaplain had to speak to his Officer in Charge at the training squadron. Then he had to go through the whole spiel again when he tried explaining that he, and only he, must launder his garments.
I identify myself as a Zen Buddhist. Over the Christmas holidays, I volunteered to work on both Christmas Eve and Christmas day, because we had to have manning of our shop, even when the base was on "down" time. I explained to my Sergeant that, in exchange, I could have off May 26, as the temple in the town was having a Kanbutsu-e for the celebration of the Buddha's birthday. He looked at me right in the eye and said "They're ain't no Buddha in a G*d D*mn foxhole." I was stunned. I still worked Christmas and Christmas Eve, but had to leave to have off for my religious holiday. I didn't fight it, I just accepted it.
When I was in tech schooling, there was an airman in my dormitory that identified himself as a pagan. Every night, this other airman in our dorm would read Bible passages at him from outside his door. When the airman complained, he was basically told "deal with it".
Sorry about the length but I just wanted to give everyone what I've seen while enlisted.

reply to post by CelticFire417


I agree... I don't think that a REAL Christian would do many of the things that we see being done "in the name of God," in today's world. I just think it's sad that others seem to want to prevent everyone worshipping as they damn well please.

reply to post by ldyserenity


It's a form of representation of the four elements in earth based religions. Earth, air, fire and water. However, you can bet that whoever did this didn't no that. They did it with a hateful heart, so, yeah,it's desecration.

[edit on 4-2-2010 by SpeakerofTruth]

You know, even like some of the pagans here, I am somewhat amuzed at the assumption that this was something propulagated by Christians. That is not necessarily the case. I mean, there are alternative explanations.

You must realize that some people in this world strive to increase disharmony in this world. Some people are hell bent on causing the ultimate clash between so-called "good" and so-called "evil." For all we know, it could have been a bunch of secular athiests who put this cross up. "Oooooh, yeah, that should drive even a further wedge between belief systems. Let's put up a cross on the pagan worship site and let's watch the sparks fly!! Brilliant!!" I can almost hear it now.





[edit on 4-2-2010 by SpeakerofTruth]

Wow, they placed a cross there? Such horror!

Same as painting or drawing things in a church? I doubt it. Just take the cross down. Wow! That was hard. Paintings or drawings are harder to remove and cover.

Now if there were Wiccans burning on the cross, I'd say we have some trouble. Otherwise, it appears to be an attempt at attention of some kind from an individual, or maybe a dare. The site was not destroyed in anyway. Relax.

oh please, come on folks, haven't you worked it out yet? ALL religion is complete and utter garbage. It's just nonsense and the pathetic little twerps who do stuff like this are just showing how afraid they are to face up to a real real world where they are TOTALLY ON THEIR OWN. Get real, please.

Originally posted by JaxonRoberts

From you, I would expect such a childish reply... Would you be laughing so hard if a group of Pagans went around drawing pentacles in Christian Churches??? No, I'd bet you would be calling for the death penalty...

Get educated before shoving your foot down your throat... Your ignorance here is mind-numbing...

So you think that taking a hike outside in a public area and putting a cross in the ground is the same as breaking and entering into a private place and vandalizing it?

Do you also believe that if someone flings a rubber band at you it would be OK for you to relaliate with a gun?

reply to post by ah...dehavilland


Well, you're free to think that if you so wish. I'm not religious per se, but I am spiritual. If you have no hope for anything and see no reason to believe in anything, then I am indeed sorry for you. I really am. However, that is your choice.

The owners and administrators of this site really need to rethink the motto of "deny ignorance" if they are allowing some of the intolellerance and ingnorance in some of the posts in this thread. Everyone has a right to worship in peace and quiet and with dignity, how dare any one religion claim superiority.

reply to post by superrat


Um, I'm a Christian, raised Assembly of God (you can't get more conservative than that) And guess what? I was also taught to have respect for other people's feelings and beliefs. I find this shocking, not so much the cross as the attitude behind it. May I offer my apologies to my Pagan brothers on behalf of all true Christians.