There's a mystery in the skies of Earth

reply to post by Phage


Phage , I wonder what is Your take on the Electric Universe theory ? I take it that You have had to do some research on it one day or another and I would love to hear Your critical opinion about it , supported with some facts for or against it

[edit on 30-1-2010 by Thill]

It's a good job these bursts fire towards space rather than at us

reply to post by Poon


Lightning strikes from the ground up, so it makes sense that any residual energetic particles would continue to travel in the same direction.

If they didn't, we would have evolved very differently - which is interesting when you consider the objects frequently seen, from space, hovering above thunderstorms, as if 'harvesting' the energy emitted.

reply to post by Icerider


Hello Icerider,

I thought that lightning striking from the ground up was just one form of lighting. Isnt there also cloud to ground lightning as well as cloud to cloud lightning (along with things like 'ball' lightning as well as a few others I think)?

And what do you mean by residue particles needing to leave from here? Could it not be that what we are seeing is not so much particles leaving Earth but entering a different charged area and reacting to the different charged area? Could some lightning be particles changing their polarity or adjusting to a different polarity of space? (excuse my poor wording, Im sooo not a scientists).

Also, it seems that ground to cloud lightning and cloud to ground lightning all have 'return' lightning. The return lightning is what we actually are seeing isnt it? A invisible step ladder so to say is formed, between the Earth and sky....and when the energy 'returns' from where it came (ground or cloud) it sparks light we can see?

Could you explain this a little more? Correct me where Im not seeing how particles are leaving Earth and how this would effect our evolution somehow?

reply to post by LeoVirgo


Ye gods - Im no scientist either!

Far as I know all lightning strikes upward, if its between surface and cloud
The earth is negatively charged, and electricity flows negative to positive (trust me, I know it sounds odd, but its true). Before the upward strike there is a feeler, reaching down to open a path for the main charge to follow. The mechanism isn't precisely know (to me at least!), but the gist of it is that current flows up to the cloud

Ball lightning is a related phenomena, little study has been done on it because its so rare and transient, but its thought to be a plasma ball! yep, I know! But that just means its a ball of gas thats lost some electrons. Far as it goes, the Sun is a ball of plasma too, much of it stripped of electrons - thats not the issue, the EU argument is that it stays together, due to electricity, not gravity.

Now looking at the sprite photos, it seems that theres a certain velocity attached to whatever charged particles are causing the very short lived effect, and they do seem to be accelerating straight up from the strike. Thats why they are cited as natural particle accelerators,i guess, cos thats what they are doing!
I think what we are seeing is energy being discharged into a rarified, ionised atmosphere, much like it glows in the northern lights, or in a plasma globe.

As far as sheet lightning, I don't know if there are sprites associated with it or not, I have to have a look see on that one. I don't recall seeing evidence that they are.

Finally, evolution - well, if the planet was constantly being bombarded with high levels of energetic particles or antimatter from thunderstorms I think it would have to have an effect on life, therefore its a good thing that it goes up, not down to us!

These are difficult subjects, I don't think my understanding is any better than yours, but intuitively I find it difficult to warm to the Electric Universe model. However, I'm going to read some more about it, and who knows, maybe Ill change my mind!

reply to post by Icerider


Sometimes two people that only know little are the best to discuss things for questions will arise from the two that would not arise from the ones that know it all?!? mabey

I appreciate the discourse, for it is a great way to learn. Im going to read some things, re read your posts, and I have a feeling Ill be back with some more thoughts or questions if you dont care.

Im finding this all very interesting and the thought of new theories to think about intrigues me greatly.

Im not here to claim I know anything, Im here to ask, observe, and challenge my brain to work

LV

Excellent attitude, if I may say so.

Please check out some of the NASA footage of UFO's feeding off lightning storms, too - its related and its fascinating.



www.youtube.com...
www.youtube.com...

Theres plenty out there

I'm going to try get my head around the electric universe again, LOL.

reply to post by Icerider


I watched a night-time UFO fly into and around a flashing thunderhead over
Chicago last Summer. It was amazing seeing this light enjoying the discharges
while the incoming jets to Ohare were staying far away.

Of greater concern with these discharges into space is the danger to lower
orbiting satellites. Could our space station get zapped unexpectedly? Would
it be dangerous? Seems like we learn of additional potential dangers associated
with space every year doesn't it.
-cwm

reply to post by Icerider


hmmm...thanks for the videos...but I dont really see where you were coming from with that.

Anyways, about the lightning...

en.wikipedia.org...

The lightning that is most-commonly observed is streak lightning. This is nothing more than the return stroke, the visible part of the lightning stroke. The majority of strokes occur inside a cloud so we do not see most of the individual return strokes during a thunderstorm.

Cloud-to-ground lightning
This is the best known and second most common type of lightning. Of all the different types of lightning, it poses the greatest threat to life and property since it strikes the ground. Cloud-to-ground lightning is a lightning discharge between a cumulonimbus cloud and the ground. It is initiated by a leader stroke moving down from the cloud.

Ground-to-cloud lightning Ground-to-cloud lightning is a lightning discharge between the ground and a cumulonimbus cloud initiated by an upward-moving leader stroke. It is much rarer than cloud-to-ground lightning. This type of lightning forms when negatively charged ions called the stepped leader rises up from the ground and meets the positively charged ions in a cumulonimbus cloud. Then the strike goes back to the ground as the return stroke

Cloud-to-cloud lightning
Lightning discharges may occur between areas of cloud without contacting the ground. When it occurs between two separate clouds it is known as inter-cloud lightning and when it occurs between areas of differing electric potential within a single cloud, it is known as intra-cloud lightning. Intra-cloud lightning is the most frequently occurring type.[15] These are most common between the upper anvil portion and lower reaches of a given thunderstorm. This lightning can sometimes be observed at great distances at night as so-called "heat lightning". In such instances, the observer may see only a flash of light without hearing any thunder. The "heat" portion of the term is a folk association between locally experienced warmth and the distant lightning flashes.

Positive lightning is a type of lightning strike that comes from apparently clear or only slightly cloudy skies; they are also known as "bolts from the blue" because of this trait. Unlike the more common negative lightning, the positive charge is carried by the top of the clouds (generally anvil clouds) rather than the ground. The leader forms in the sky travelling horizontally for several miles before veering down to meet the negatively charged streamer rising from below. Positive lightning makes up less than 5% of all lightning strikes.[38] Because of the much greater distance they must travel before discharging, positive lightning strikes typically carry six to ten times the charge and voltage difference of a negative bolt and last around ten times longer.[39] During a positive lightning strike, huge quantities of ELF and VLF radio waves are generated.Positive lightning has also been shown to trigger the occurrence of upper atmosphere lightning. It tends to occur more frequently in winter storms, as with thundersnow, and at the end of a thunderstorm.

One of the many theories...Ive read other things that support this idea.

Gurevich's runaway breakdown theory Main article: Runaway breakdown A theory of lightning initiation, known as the "runaway breakdown theory", proposed by Aleksandr Gurevich[25] of the Lebedev Physical Institute in 1992 suggests that lightning strikes are triggered by cosmic rays which ionize atoms, releasing electrons that are accelerated by the electric fields, ionizing other air molecules and making the air conductive by a runaway breakdown, then "seeding" a lightning strike.

I found alot of interesting stuff today...the whole 'plasma' idea as being a 4th form of matter is interesting. Alot of the papers I read had a bunch of formulas to explain this and that.

It seems traditional science would say atmosphereic electricity is an effect from our weather, but could it be that our weather is an effect of atmosphereic electricity?

Light is a electromagnetic wave and exhibits polarization. Fast moving electrons emit polarized z-rays as they move through intense magnetic fields (this is a general reverb of notes I took). Could it be that Earth is electrically connected to the sun? When a charge radiates, it shows the charge accelerates. Cosmic waves arent really waves, but individual particles coming from the sun and other parts of the Universe. I read that solar wind can be looked at as a magmatized plasma generated by the sun. Terrestrial gamma ray bursts are thought to be different from Sprites and elves because Gamma Rays are produced by electrons accelerating into high speed beams (electromagnetic lines). Sprites and Elves are theorized to be from electrons heating up due to the electric field produced after a lighting bolt.

It just seems to be that we could be dealing with some of the explanations that the electric universe give us. All theories have holes, but some of the things it talks about seems to make more sense then the traditional theories.

Forgive if some of this doesnt make sense...and to the OP...I hope I am not too far off topic with discussing different ideas about lights in the atmosphere of Earth. Its late...and Im rambling....

Night night
LV

reply to post by carewemust


Pity you didnt have a camera to hand, would have been cool. (don't worry, I have had a few 'sightings' and never had a camera with me, its annoying)

Yep, I am sure theres some kind of attraction for 'them' to the high voltage. I remember reading somewhere that it was claimed that radar was an attractant to ufo's too - maybe something to do with ionisation, maybe a link there.

100km seems to be the altitude at which the highest of these things - the 'elves', seem to appear. I'm pretty sure that the lowest any satellite has ever been is 150Km +, otherwise I guess they would fall outta the sky. I think there is more danger from incoming solar radiation, although this is mitigated somewhat by the magnetosphere.

I reckon the ISS is safe enough at 280KM.

Originally posted by LeoVirgo

Light is a electromagnetic wave and exhibits polarization. Fast moving electrons emit polarized z-rays as they move through intense magnetic fields (this is a general reverb of notes I took). Could it be that Earth is electrically connected to the sun? When a charge radiates, it shows the charge accelerates. Cosmic waves arent really waves, but individual particles coming from the sun and other parts of the Universe. I read that solar wind can be looked at as a magmatized plasma generated by the sun. Terrestrial gamma ray bursts are thought to be different from Sprites and elves because Gamma Rays are produced by electrons accelerating into high speed beams (electromagnetic lines). Sprites and Elves are theorized to be from electrons heating up due to the electric field produced after a lighting bolt.

TY for this comment! It makes some things clearer to me.

I was thinking that it wouldn't be more then logical to asume that the Earth is not only electrically connected to the Sun but to the whole Universe.

Of course our Sun is reasonable close-by but what to think about other (electrical) particles that float through space from either other Suns (stars) or from the center of our Milkyway?

What do we know about the behaviour of pure Light particles and their effect on our planet (or the planet's atmosphere)?

Originally posted by LeoVirgo

It seems traditional science would say atmosphereic electricity is an effect from our weather, but could it be that our weather is an effect of atmosphereic electricity?

Good Q! I bet 'our weather is an effect of atmosphereic electricity' because HOW else would it be possible to influence the weather like they do nowadays? Don't they try to change the weather by influencing the atmospheric electricity?


Peace!

From the information I learned watching "Conspiracy Theory with Jesse Ventura" I do believe HARRP is the responsible party here. I also believe HARRP is responsible for the Haiti earthquake, the Asian tsunami, and the Greensburg Ks. tornado. I think they have multiple reasons for this destruction. First and foremost is testing the HARRP system on different weather conditions. Secondly, I believe the Government is destroying these places in order to rebuild self-sufficient areas (i.e. Greensburg Ks.) in preparation for the cataclysms in our near future.

This is an amazing thread.. I appreciate you bringing this topic to our attention. It is wonderful to see people looking for answers.

reply to post by Melyanna Tengwesta


I dont often ask other ATS members if they have read the Law of One materials...but have you? I was amazed to see this idea possibly being mentioned in the Law of One. There was something in there about the sun, and how the energy of the sun did not come from within the sun, but from outside of the sun.

Just read about this yesterday...and was like...wow...that is pretty cool.

It also said something about how the bodies of the cosmos were all connected to eachother and the energy between the bodies could be looked at as a form of braided hair. I am only paraphrasing from memory of what I read...so forgive it for not being exact. I cant do justice to it by paraphrasing.

[edit on 1-2-2010 by LeoVirgo]

Originally posted by Thill
reply to post by Phage

 

Phage , I wonder what is Your take on the Electric Universe theory ? I take it that You have had to do some research on it one day or another and I would love to hear Your critical opinion about it , supported with some facts for or against it

[edit on 30-1-2010 by Thill]

Hi ya Thill....

I just wanted to second your motion on Phage's opinion about the EU and how he views space working with the many theories out there.

I dont think any theories are perfect what so ever, I think they are all flawed majorly....but we can learn from them all as well. Some may apply better for certain things then others....but do we keep ignoring this?

So I 2nd that....not only for Phage....but I want to hear others thoughts on this and am surprised that more arent sharing theirs.