Professor Claims God is not Creator

Professor Ellen van Wolde, a respected Old Testament scholar and author, claims the first sentence of Genesis "in the beginning God created the Heaven and the Earth" is not a true translation.

She said she eventually concluded the Hebrew verb "bara", which is used in the first sentence of the book of Genesis, does not mean "to create" but to "spatially separate".

She said: "It meant to say that God did create humans and animals, but not the Earth itself."

She said she hoped that her conclusions would spark "a robust debate".

I did a search and didn't find this posted yet suprisingly.

Genesis 1:1 is not about creation of the material world but separation within it, removing God from being the Creator in line with the rest of the Bible.

SOURCE
www.telegraph.co.uk...

reply to post by SuperSlovak


That's an interesting theory indeed. I always thought there was something weird because in Genesis it says God told the Earth to bring forth life and that sounds an awful lot like Evolution to me...

If she's an Old Testament scholar though I would think this proclamation would come from studying the wrathful murdering psychopath that God was depicted as and coming to the conclusion that no loving God would willfully slaughter all those people so it must be made up, embellished, etc.

The idea is here is that everything existed but God gave it order and separated it out, a fascinating theory but I doubt the Church will accept it anytime soon.

If this pans out to be true, it will either change every bible based religion on earth (judism, christianity, islam), in a way almost unidentifiable to what is it today, or be completely and totally ignored as to what it means.

Suddenly, God becomes a ET...that would blow the minds of many hardcore religious...however, it will be at that moment when science and religion will sit down and talk theories.

The professor made this discovery last year. As far as I can tell the the Vatican has remained silent about this matter. They can accept ET is real but not their God? Why not?

Those who claim a "god" is the creator should be the ones showing proof.

Not faith based crap, but actual physical proof.

Originally posted by SuperSlovak
The professor made this discovery last year. As far as I can tell the the Vatican has remained silent about this matter. They can accept ET is real but not their God? Why not?

From the thread your an anti-religious type of person whom doesnt want to believe in god or wants to find out, wherever or not how we see god.

So much from this so called discovery i am not buying it.


If you dont want believe in a god or supreme being then dont.


But dont stop other people from destroying there beliefs



ATS is full of anti-religious and anti god people type.
You want proof of god? alright then

show me proof of your aliens and other crap we will have deal then.

and one more thing.

From your article it states

Professor Claims

These are claims, like rumor if you will, and as we all know most of them turn out to be false.
[edit on 29-1-2010 by Agent_USA_Supporter]

[edit on 29-1-2010 by Agent_USA_Supporter]

reply to post by SuperSlovak


Dr. Christopher Heard, Associate Professor of Religion at Pepperdine University, has addressed Van Wolde's claims in his Oct. 9, 2009 article, "Separating Sense from Nonsense:On Ellen van Wolde on Genisis 1:1".

In the article he shows that if we use von Wolde's translation in other parts of the Bible, the results are nonsense and babel.

Separating sense from nonsense: on Ellen van Wolde on Genesis 1:1

My initial, gut reaction was, “She’s off her rocker.” After a few minutes’ consideration, I thought, “Okay, I can sort of see where one might get that.” Then I went back to “off her rocker.”


If we attempt to apply Van Wolde’s proposal elsewhere, and treat ברא as meaning “to spatially separate” rather than “to create” in texts other than Genesis 1:1, we again get nonsense. Consider these test cases excerpted from the 48 biblical appearances of ברא I:

And God spatially separated the great sea monsters, and every kind of living creature that moves through the water, and every kind of flying bird. (Gen 1:21)

Translated this way, the sentence becomes gibberish. God separated the sea creatures and birds from what? From one another?

God said, “Look, I am making a covenant. In full view of your people I will do marvels that have not been spatially separated in any land or in any nation. (Exodus 34:10)

What on earth could it mean to “spatially separate” a marvel “in” any land or “among” all the lands? I suppose, however, that this example might prove inappropriate, since ברא appears here in the N (niphal) form.

Ask about the earliest times, before you existed, from the day when God spatially separated humanity upon the earth … (Deuteronomy 4:32)

One could make sense of this statement in English, if one supposes that the author wishes to refer to the Tower of Babel incident rather than to the creation of human beings. I can’t imagine getting that sense out of the Hebrew text, though.

I made the earth, and spatially separated humankind upon it; it was my hand that stretched out the heavens, and I commanded all their host. (Isaiah 45:12)

Full Article Here

[edit on 29-1-2010 by FortAnthem]

reply to post by SuperSlovak

Her intellectual verbiage will only add even more confusion. I prefer, by far, Sri Aurobindo's Book of Beginnings which is much more instructive than the poorly translated book of Genesis:

The Book of Beginnings (excerpt)

It was the hour before the Gods awake.
Across the path of the divine Event 
The huge foreboding mind of Night, alone
In her unlit temple of eternity,
Lay stretched immobile upon Silence' marge.
Almost one felt, opaque, impenetrable,
In the sombre symbol of her eyeless muse
The abysm of the unbodied Infinite;
A fathomless zero occupied the world...

Savitri

In fact, the book of Genesis is simply insignificant compared to this splendor.

[edit on 30-1-2010 by D1ss1dent]

You people will jump at the chance to believe any lone professor that tries to change Christianity. You will believe any of the 1000's of ufo garbage myths. But when the Bible, which has stood the test of time and has been proven accurate over and over, tells you something you instantly start to scoff.(which is exactly what the Bible said you would do)

As for statements like:"maybe science and religion can sit down and talk." It is obvious that for some, science has become their religion. Chances are that most of these kids on the internet have never even opened a Bible. The Word of God has made it clear, God will forgive you an endless amount of times. But after your once appointed to die, theres a judgment. At the Judgment God won't excuse ignorance or pride.

Originally posted by Bilw85
The Word of God has made it clear, God will forgive you an endless amount of times. But after your once appointed to die, theres a judgment. At the Judgment God won't excuse ignorance or pride.

Here's a citation of my bible that almost perfectly depict yourself:

He seemed a helping angel from the skies: 
He armed untruth with Scripture and the Law; 
He deceived with wisdom, with virtue slew the soul 
And led to perdition by the heavenward path. 
A lavish sense he gave of power and joy, 
And, when arose the warning from within, 
He reassured the ear with dulcet tones 
Or took the mind captive in its own net; 
His rigorous logic made the false seem true. 
Amazing the elect with holy lore 
He spoke as with the very voice of God. 
The air was full of treachery and ruse;

Savitri - Book II, Canto VII.

[edit on 3-2-2010 by D1ss1dent]

I believe this definition to be errant. Bara is usually used in the sense-to create. Why do you scorn my sacrifice and offering that I prescribed for my dwelling? Why do you honor your sons more than me by fattening yourselves on the choice parts of every offering made by my people Israel?' The word "fattening" in the passage above is the Hebrew word "bara". The noun form of this verb is "beriya" and can be found in Genesis 41.4 - "And the cows that were ugly and gaunt ate up the seven sleek, fat cows." The word "fat" is the Hebrew word "beriya".

The word "bara" does not mean, "create" (Hebrew actually has no word that meaning "create" in the sense of something out of nothing) but "to fatten". If we take the literal definition of "bara" in Genesis 1.1 we have - In the beginning God fattened the heavens and the earth. What does this fattening of the heavens and earth mean? This verse is not showing the creation of the heaven and earth, but rather the fattening or filling up of it. Therefore, Genesis 1.1 is a condensed version of the whole creation story.

There is MUCH to be discovered when you read the OT acknowledging the PROPER Hebrew translations. If the blind followers would only put forth the minimal effort and discover it in its original intended meaning, they would absolutely strangle their pastors, preachers and televangelists whom should be responsible for having done such research before spewing nonsense to the masses.