On the Origins of Unexplained Maps

reply to post by operation mindcrime


Incredible is right! Thanks for the great link and the great thread. I love maps and this is a huge mystery.

These maps seem to indicate a rising and falling of the ice caps, concurrent with the long-term existence of humans as intelligent and capable as we are today, maybe more.

Human history does indeed seem to have been "edited" and maybe this is the time of history when the story gets updated? We do have the technology and a lot of archaeology to have (at some future time) a more complete and well-dated picture of our era of history. Maybe it will help us to be distinct, yet still family, as so many are hoping.

Great find! There were some documentaries about these, as well. Copies probably exist on YouTube or even someplace like History Channel online?

reply to post by operation mindcrime


I suppose it bears some resemblance, but why is there a monkey on the land? Do you think they drew these for no reason, because then we wouldn't have a question, but if they did, then why?

Originally posted by Copperflower
reply to post by operation mindcrime

 

Great find! There were some documentaries about these, as well. Copies probably exist on YouTube or even someplace like History Channel online?

Sounds interesting. Do you remember any of the names of these documentaries?

Originally posted by serbsta
reply to post by operation mindcrime

 

I suppose it bears some resemblance, but why is there a monkey on the land? Do you think they drew these for no reason, because then we wouldn't have a question, but if they did, then why?

Show me the monkey!!

I know what you mean and i am going by the animals i see as well, in order to determent what landmass we are looking at. The Tapir is the most obvious and that would make it either papua new guinea or the southern tip of south America.

I see resemblance in the coastline of Australia and Terra del Fuego so that doesn't really help.

Back to finding more clues....

Peace

Here's a small brain fart......

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/files/c27c9f931c4b2558.jpg[/atsimg]

In case it's to big to fit the screen again...

media.abovetopsecret.com...

now that brings a whole new perspective...

Peace

Well presented thread. Better than some of the mental stuff put on here.

Things like these are all just signs that people need to reconsider what they think they know about the world. I would love to see what mainstream academics would say, most likely they would claim they are frauds or such.

Just one more thing and then I'll back off for a bit. Because i feel like i am hijacking this thread.

Everything below the red line in the picture is everything that would be found under the south tip of South America.

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/files/84e84a7ecde9366a.jpg[/atsimg]

I have found a rough translation of the text on the map...

1.)

In this century there is no map like this map in anyone's possession. The--hand of this poor man has drawn it and now it is constructed. From about twenty charts and Mappae Mundi--these are charts drawn in the days of Alexander, Lord of the Two Horns, which show the inhabited quarter of the world; the Arabs name these charts Jaferiye--from eight Jaferiyes of that kind and one Arabic map of Hind, and from the maps just drawn by four Portuguese which show the countries of Hind, Sind and China geometrically drawn, and also from a map drawn by Colombo in the western region I have extracted it. By reducing all these maps to one scale this final form was arrived at. So that the present map is as correct and reliable for the Seven Seas as the map of these our countries is considered correct and reliable by seamen.

2.)

It is related by the Portuguese infidel that in this spot night and day are at their shortest of two hours, at their longest of twenty two hours. But the day is very warm and in the night there is much dew.

3.)

On the way to the vilayet of Hind a Portuguese ship encountered a contrary wind [blowing] from the shore. The wind from the shore . . . [illegible] it [the ship]. After being driven by a storm in a southern direction they saw a shore opposite them they advanced towards it [illegible]. They saw that these places are good anchorages. They threw anchor and went to the shore in boats. They saw people walking, all of them naked. But they shot arrows, their tips made of fishbone. They stayed there eight days. They traded with these people by signs. That barge saw these lands and wrote about them which. . . . The said barge without going to Hind, returned to Portugal, where, upon arrival it gave information. . . . They described these shores in detail. . . . They have discovered them.

4.)

And in this country it seems that there are white-haired monsters in this shape, and also six-horned oxen. The Portuguese infidels have written it in their maps. .

5.)

This country is a waste. Everything is in ruin and it is said that large snakes are found here. For this reason the Portuguese infidels did not land on these shores and these are also said to be very hot.

Hmmmm....white-haired monsters?? Six-horned oxen?? large snakes??

Peace

I am afraid that the island in between point 4.) and 5.) of the picture in the above post are the Falkland islands.

They just thought that the coast line was bending east while it runs straight down. Point 5.) would then be Tierra de Fuego. The discription given for this land...

This country is a waste. Everything is in ruin and it is said that large snakes are found here. For this reason the Portuguese infidels did not land on these shores and these are also said to be very hot.

...seems pretty accurate. Nothing in particular about large snakes living in this area of the world.

Peace

reply to post by operation mindcrime


Ancient maps is one of my favourite subjects, I have a bit of collection in digital. I have wondered if the Piri Reis map is only a portion then by the descriptions, I have read a translation like what you said, where he boasts that no one had put all the pieces together yet.

I have also wondered if Antartica is Atlantis too, and it is icy due to nuclear winter of some sort.

Some that may be of interest to you are Magnus Olaus' map which mentions 'dwarves' (which are also mentioned in the Greenland sagas!) and sea monsters he witnessed!! And I have some of the arctic... theres a ton, maybe I will post them soon.

reply to post by Ridhya


Please post as many as you can because i believe i have found a new hobby!!

Concerning mythological creatures, from the Piri-Reis map:

These monsters are seven spans long. Between their eyes there is a distance of one span. But they are harmless souls.

How would you describe a giant sloth??

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/files/7c378e1f7f1c6b03.jpg[/atsimg]

Whereas all extant sloths are small tree-dwelling animals not weighing more that 10 kg (22 lb.), ancient sloths included giants the size of elephants that became extinct some 10,000 years ago.

Among these large sloths, was the Mylodon, a herbivore about 3 m (10 ft.) long, 1,5 m (5 ft.) high and weighing more than one ton (2,204 lb.).

Do you think man actually saw these creatures? How long is 7 spans?

Peace

[edit on 26/1/2010 by operation mindcrime]

reply to post by operation mindcrime


You do have a great point on the Piri Reis map. The white haired monster (polar bear?) is pretty much pushing you in the opposite direction though. There are many more logical conclusions to it than immediately pointing to Antarctica, despite the white haired monsters; but not with the Buache map! It is clearly depicting Antarctica and yet there are no answers for this.

P.S: A span is generally considered to be the length of the human hand from the tip of thumb to tip of little finger. But in ancient times it was counted as 9 inches. I got that from wikipedia so you may want to double check.

[edit on 26/1/2010 by serbsta]

reply to post by serbsta

serbsta,

I had not paid much attention to the Buache map because i was focusing on the Piri-Reis map. But if you say it has no explanation up till now then i guess that is an ATS worthy challenge...


On to the Buache map!!

or should i say back to the Buache map!!

Peace

[edit on 26/1/2010 by operation mindcrime]

Awesome thread, S&F!

I found this article on badarchaeology concerning Philippe Buchae map:

www.badarchaeology.net...

Philippe Buache’s map (supposedly of 1739, although, as we shall see, there are complications with the date) has suffered the same fate as Piri’s and Orontius Finaeus’s maps, to be used as evidence for an ancient civilisation that mapped Antarctica when it was free from ice.

The principal claim made about Buache’s map is that it accurately depicts the subglacial topography of Antarctica. Once again, these claims go back to Hapgood’s 1966 book, Maps of the Ancient Sea Kings. The greatest problem with the claim that the map shows the coastline of Antarctica as it would appear without ice is that we cannot know what an ice-free Antarctica would look like. This is because modern maps of the continent’s subglacial topography have been made while the entire continent is buried under countless millions of tons of ice that have pushed the landmass down into the earth. Remove the ice and two problems immediately occur: sea levels will rise, drowning the present-day ‘coastline’, and isostatic uplift will cause the continent to ‘bounce back’, raising parts of it up to 3,100 metres. What this means is that there is no way to judge the accuracy of Buache’s map if Hapgood’s claims are correct. And if they are correct, why are there so many discrepancies between this map and the Piri Re‘is map, also claimed to show the subglacial topography?

The other opening into the inland sea, to the southwest of South America, was placed where Sharpe and Davis had reported icebergs in 1687. Buache believed that the icebergs must have derived from a floating ice sheet, as in the Arctic, rather than from the newly discovered land. This led him to conclude that the southern continent was not a single landmass but two islands separated by a frozen inland sea, from which icebergs detached themselves to float northwards. The sea shown in the centre of Antarctica did not therefore derive from ancient maps, but from an hypothesis Buache had developed over a number of years.

reply to post by Maslo


Thanks Maslo for the contribution!!

I was just looking at pictures of Antarctica's bedrock as we know it today and that didn't look anything like the cart of Philippe Buache. It seemed like more landmass would have to be removed in order to get the giant inland sea.

But after you wrote this:

The greatest problem with the claim that the map shows the coastline of Antarctica as it would appear without ice is that we cannot know what an ice-free Antarctica would look like. This is because modern maps of the continent’s subglacial topography have been made while the entire continent is buried under countless millions of tons of ice that have pushed the landmass down into the earth. Remove the ice and two problems immediately occur: sea levels will rise, drowning the present-day ‘coastline’, and isostatic uplift will cause the continent to ‘bounce back’, raising parts of it up to 3,100 metres.

Last month i was working on some earthquake thread and learned:

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/files/a8849084b5668126.gif[/atsimg]

The part of the mantle near the crust, about 50-100 km down, is especially soft and plastic, and is called the asthenosphere. The mantle and crust above are cool enough to be tough and elastic, and are known as the lithosphere. A heavy load on the crust, like an ice cap, large glacial lake, or mountain range, can bend the lithosphere down into the asthenosphere, which can flow out of the way. The load will sink until it is supported by buoyancy. If an ice cap melts or lake dries up due to climatic changes, or a mountain range erodes away, the lithosphere will buoyantly rise back up over thousands of years. This is the process of isostatic rebound.

So maybe Philippe Buache had a reason to believe that after the ice mass was removed the result would be like his chart. Maybe he used sources that date back to when there was no ice covering Antarctica....

Peace

reply to post by operation mindcrime


So the pole (magnetic) is there off the coast of Africa?

On the side that we call the west?

reply to post by MissMegs


Well yes and no!!

The pole was and is always in the same place. The continents floating on the asthenosphere are moving around..

Peace

reply to post by operation mindcrime


According to Mr. Graham Hancock a complete slippage of the Earth's thirty-mile-thick crust forced large parts of the western hemisphere southward towards the equator and towards Antarctic Circle.

The continent of Antarctica was mostly at temperate or even warm latitudes until this crustal shift moved it completely inside the Antarctic Circle.

This overall crustal shift had a magnitude of 30 degrees (approximately 2000 miles or 3200 kilometers).

This crustal shift occurred between 14,500 BC and 12,500 BC with "massive aftershocks on a planetary scale continuing at widely-separated intervals" until 9,500 BC.

On a side note: scientific data (deep cores and borings) shows that the last time Antarctica was completely ice free to be approx. 14 million years ago.

On the other hand, science has been wrong before....

Peace



[edit on 26/1/2010 by operation mindcrime]

reply to post by operation mindcrime


Are you referring to what I recall being referenced as the 'egg effect'? Basically it says that if you hold an egg in your hand and give it a quick sharp twist, the shell moves in your hand, but the yolk will pretty much remain in its place, and the surrounding albumen will shift relative to the closeness of the shell.

I heard that the same thing could have happened with the earth. Which explains how you could have such a sudden and quick change in climate on a land mass if the crust suddenly shifted due to some reason.

Could explain why they have found that mammoth with undigested food in it's stomach - frozen.

Here's a link to "Dima" - The preserved baby woolly mammoth

en.wikipedia.org...

Could the Piri Reis map be based on Sumerian resources? The earliest known civilization, the Sumerians in Mesopotamia, appear out of nowhere around 4,000 B.C. but have no nautical or maritime cultural heritage. They do, however, speak reverently of ancestral people who were like the "gods" and were known as the nefilim who could have provided the information for the maps.

Here is a summary of some of the most unusual findings about the Reis map: Scrutiny of the map shows that the makers knew the accurate circumference of the Earth to within 50 miles.

The coastline and island that are shown in Antarctica must have been navigated at some period prior to 4,000 B.C. when these areas were free of ice from the last Ice Age. The map is thought to be one of the earliest "world maps" to show the Americas.

Early scholars suggested that it showed accurate latitudes of the South American and African coastlines - only 21 years after the voyages of Columbus! (And remember, Columbus did NOT discover North America - only the Caribbean!)

Writing in Piri Reis own hand it describes how he had made the map from a collection of ancient maps, supplemented by charts that were drawn by Columbus himself. This suggests that these ancient maps were available to Columbus and could have been the basis of his expedition. Piri Reis own commentary indicates that some of his source maps were from the time of Alexander the Great (332 B.C.). I would conclude that the maps were composed from knowledge acquired from beings from somewhere else.

S&F great stuff here.

I know that I play the skeptic a lot on this forum, but when it comes to this, the evidence points to people 1000 years ago or more being able to make maps of areas that have only just been rediscovered in the last 100 years. I would also like to point to all of the evidence of Chinese exploration in 1300-1490's roughly. They stopped not because of a disaster, but because they found that they needed nothing from the rest of the world. I think it’s funny that they would think this. If I remember correctly it is all apart of Chung Kuo(sp). I will look more into this and get back to you all.

EDIT: I just did quick search for it, all that really comes up is a SciFi books series, I will serch the deep net for a bit and see what comes up. I remember learning about this in my AP Comparitive Government and Politics class in our section about China. The theory is that China in the 'Middle' or 'Center' kingdom. The chinese are the center of the world, outside of that is 'Barbarians' or asian looking people who are not chinese, and then out side of that circle are the non persons, or everyone else.

[edit on 26-1-2010 by Obinhi]

Great find too - this is a mystery.

I always look for the "obvious" answer and for this one, some time in the near past, much of Antartica was void of ice!!. Before pushing this answer in the bin, we do know that there have been mini ice ages, so why not mini warming? I do seriously wonder whether the ice at the poles actually varies much more than we realise. Looking for evidence - reason why Greenland was so called by the Vikings, because actually it was warmer then and the land was green when they first arrived (there is evidence from the science community starting to build for this). Also the pictures of the polar ice on Mars has massively varied in the last twenty years - not sure if this is NASA being naughty though.

As for calculating the circumference of the Earth, the Greek Erasthones calulated this to around 98% at around the time of Christ (again this is a fact) - so to have this known before hand is indeed very possible.