Flt 93 CVR last minute discrepency

Is the CVR from Flight 93 the entire recording or was it tampered with? No, I don't know that for certain however the story of it has changed over time and I think it needs a little closer look. Afterall its the only one that survived on 911.

Note: I will not entertain snide remarks, off topic comments or questions.

2002:

Three-minute discrepancy in tape
Cockpit voice recording ends before Flight 93's official time of impact.

[Extracts]

THE FINAL three minutes of hijacked United Flight 93 are still a mystery more than a year after it crashed in western Pennsylvania - even to grieving relatives who sought comfort in listening to its cockpit tapes in April.

A Daily News investigation has found a roughly three-minute gap between the time the tape goes silent - according to government-prepared transcripts - and the time that top scientists have pinpointed for the crash.

Several leading seismologists agree that Flight 93 crashed last Sept. 11 at 10:06:05 a.m., give or take a couple of seconds. Family members allowed to hear the cockpit voice recorder in Princeton, N.J., last spring were told it stopped just after 10:03.

The FBI and other agencies refused repeated requests to explain the discrepancy.

But the relatives of Flight 93 passengers who heard the cockpit tape April 18 at a Princeton hotel said government officials laid out a timetable for the crash in a briefing and in a transcript that accompanied the recording. Relatives later reported they heard sounds of an on-board struggle beginning at 9:58 a.m., but there was a final "rushing sound" at 10:03, and the tape fell silent.

Vaughn Hoglan, the uncle of passenger Mark Bingham, said by phone from California that near the end there are shouts of "pull up, pull up," but the end of the tape "is inferred - there's no impact." [Philadelphia Daily News, 9/16/2002]

Okay, so the above article states that seismologists agreed that Flight 93 crashed at 10:06 a.m., the last three minutes of the cockpit tape were missing, there is a mention of a struggle, but no mention of maniacal hijackers, and the tape ended with a "rushing sound".

2004:

The passengers continued with their assault, trying to break through the cockpit door. At 10:02 a.m. and 23 seconds, a hijacker said, "Pull it down! Pull it down!"

"The hijackers remained at the controls but must have judged that the passengers were only seconds from overcoming them," the report concludes.

"The airplane headed down; the control wheel was turned hard to the right. The airplane rolled onto its back, and one of the hijackers began shouting, 'Allah is the greatest. Allah is the greatest.'

"With the sounds of the passenger counter-attack continuing, the aircraft plowed into an empty field in Shanksville, Pennsylvania, at 580 miles per hour, about 20 minutes' flying time from Washington, D.C." [CNN, 7/23/2004]

The story has completely changed. The 10:06 a.m. seismic event has completely disappeared and we are told that maniacal hijackers on the verge of being overwhelmed by passengers counter attacking whilst the plane was flying upside down flew the plane into the ground at 10:03 a.m. with one of them shouting "Allah is the greatest. Allah is the greatest."

Now in 2006:

Three minutes after 10 a.m., passengers seem to be breaking through the cockpit door, fighting with the hijackers in a futile effort to take back the throttle. "Go! Go!" they encourage one another. "Move! Move!" But the terrorists have flipped the plane upside down. They spin it downward.

"Shall we finish it off?" a hijacker asks in Arabic.

In its final plunge, the hijackers shout over and over in Arabic: "Allah is the greatest! Allah is the greatest!" [SFGate, 4/13/2006]

Now ALL of the hijackers are shouting "Allah is the greatest! Allah is the greatest!"


Why do I suspect that the last minutes of Flight 93's CVR are fabricated / tampered with?

9/11 commission report says:

UA175: CVR Destroyed
AA11: CVR Destroyed
AA77: CVR Found but "Not Readable"
UA93: CVR found/Readable

I have NEVER seen a case of this magnitude where all of the evidence (that wasn't destroyed or is missing) so neatly falls into place.

Call me whatever makes you feel good but I know that there is something more to this story regarding flight 93 other than "it crashed in the ground then buried itself".

As I have stated before this one flight out of the 3 on 911 has so many discrepancies about it that to me, it almost cries out to be looked at more closely. More of the OS or, Operational Suitability.



Agent 1 - Oh crap look! They said it wouldn't be found.
Agent 2 - Put it in your bag quick!
Rescuer - Hey ya'll what's that?
Agents - Uh, the cockpit recorder. Doahhhhh!!

[edit on 24-1-2010 by mikelee]

reply to post by mikelee

United 93 Still Airborne After Alleged Crash - According To ATC/Radar
04/28/09 (PilotsFor911Truth.org) - Recently it has been brought to our attention that Air Traffic Control (ATC) transcripts reveal United 93 as being airborne after it's alleged crash. Similar scenarios have been offered with regard to American 77 and American 11 showing an aircraft target continuing past its alleged crash point in the case of American 11, or past the turn-around point in the case of American 77. However, both these issues can be easily explained by "Coast Mode" radar tracking. This is not the case with United 93.
Full Article Here

pilotsfor911truth.org...

To back up your debate, I thought I should add this from the FOIA something the OS believers do not want to discuss. It just shatters the OS to pieces and it proves the government is lying.

reply to post by impressme


Thanks! Always good to have your help on the matter included for sure.

the flight data recorder shows that the plane crashed in that empty hole in the ground and had no signs of being compromised in any way shape or form prior to this alleged impact.

do you think the flight data recorder released by the united states government is authentic and depicts what really happened on 9/11?

and where is the cvr recording available at for listening?

[edit on 24-1-2010 by wholetruth]

Originally posted by wholetruth
the flight data recorder shows that the plane crashed in that empty hole in the ground and had no signs of being compromised in any way shape or form prior to this alleged impact.

do you think the flight data recorder released by the united states government is authentic and depicts what really happened on 9/11?

and where is the cvr recording available at for listening?

[edit on 24-1-2010 by wholetruth]

* No signs of compromise when found I agree there. I'm speaking of once it was opened and removed then it was edited.

* I do not think (my opinion only) the recording is in it's entirety as it was originally found. I'm not alone in this theory either.

* There are many recordings available for listening on the internet at many sites. However those do not depict the entire recording and that's is a pretty well accepted fact.

The transcript of the recording has been disputed by family's of victims as well others including those who have spoken out and heard it in it's full length version at the ZM trial. I do not pretend to know exactly what is in the edited/missing portions but remaining on topic of this thread it is the only recording that survived on 911 and it just happens to belong to one of the aircraft that continues to be placed in dispute of really happened to it.

The story of this recording has changed over time as the thread indicates. It is being kept at Iron Mountain in PA under strict security.

reply to post by mikelee


There is some dispute as to whether UA 93 crashed at 10.03 or 10.06. Most evidence, including the CVR, favour 10.03. Some seismologists went for 10.06 but have apparently changed their minds about that. But 10.03 or 10.06 what is the big deal ?

What is on the CVR is available on the net in transcript. The actual recording has been played to relatives.

If the recording was phoney, do you not think some national security reason would have been invoked to prevent the relatives hearing it ? Some listeners thought they could recognise the voices of their relatives.

What is your point ? Was a crash in a field in PA part of the master plan ?

reply to post by Alfie1


Hey Alfie 1,

There remains a missing portion of time on the recording, that has been established already. My point is why? Why is there any missing time on the recording at all if its a continuous recording up until the end, whatever the end is. Its never been explained...at all.

Those who have heard the full recording (which was played at the ZM trial) state the same thing also.

U.S. District Judge Alvin K. Hellerstein ruled that jurors can't listen to the entire tape but can hear portions that the hijacked passengers may have heard.

Source: ABC archives

The recording again as stated is the only that survived in all of the planes used in the 911 attacks but is also being kept from full disclosure even from people who have filed FOIA requests.

The broader significance is that the three-minute gap points to how little is really known about how and why Flight 93 crashed - even as the saga of the doomed jetliner and cell-phone calls from some of the 40 passengers and crew continue to captivate the nation. "That's part of the whole war aspect - we don't want to tell about what we did and didn't do," said Vernon Grose, a former National Transportation Safety Board member who says he still has questions about the Flight 93 crash. He said he doubts there will ever be "a nice, open public hearing with eyewitnesses telling what they saw."

Source: Philadelphia News Daily

Seismologists - experts in the earth's vibrations - have almost exactly pinpointed the time of the crash of Flight 93 at 10:06:05. "The seismic signals are consistent with impact at 10:06:05," plus or minus two seconds, said Terry Wallace, who heads the Southern Arizona Seismic Observatory and is considered the leading expert on the seismology of man-made events. "I don't know where the 10:03 time comes from." Likewise, a written study commissioned by the Department of Defense - carried out by seismologists from Columbia University and the Maryland Geological Survey - also determined impact was at 10:06:05.

Source: Washington Post

If the missing time from the recording can't be accounted for or heard then without a doubt it points to tampering or editing in my opinion.

[edit on 24-1-2010 by mikelee]

reply to post by mikelee

If the missing time from the recording can't be accounted for or heard then without a doubt it points to tampering or editing in my opinion.

Does your opinion have room to consider there is simply a discrepancy between the recorded times?

reply to post by hooper


I have considered that yes, and have not discounted it totally either. But in the sum of things I'm not convinced it is the right answer to arrive at because of all the other anamolys with the story of this particular flight.
For me it raises questions because its at the end of the tape and based on the transcript by editing that very particular part of the recording, it allows for the "story" of the flight to be ended there either by development or just leaving out the missing portion and explaning it away in accordance with the OS. It is a rather conveinant end for many reasons.

Originally posted by Alfie1
reply to post by mikelee

 

What is your point ? Was a crash in a field in PA part of the master plan ?

The drama of Flt 93 was critical for the emotional establishment of the Official Conspiracy Theory (OCT) narrative. Facts are one thing, but most people need a storyline to really wrap their heads around a notion and become emotionally invested in it as the truth. Religion established this thousands of years ago, and the 9/11 OCT needed to have a compelling hero/villain narrative to help with the post-event marketing rollout.

In terrorism, the real value is in the post-event marketing campaign, and the post-9/11 marketing campaign was built on the back of the Flt 93 hero narrative. It was definitely part of the master plan, and any corporate marketer will tell you that it was extremely well conceived, even if it was clumsily executed. Then again, corporate marketing firms are better at concept than delivery, generally speaking.

Flt 93 was about the emotional struggle between the regular American heroes and the evil cartoon Al Qaeda terrorists, with the American way of life and government rescued by those ordinary heroes (after reciting The Lord's Prayer, of course) with a stoic "Let's Roll" to launch the counter-offensive. Of course, in the narrative, the entire plane needed to crash as a result of the struggle, so that the horror and heroism of it all would be amplified for the telling and retelling of their epic struggle against the forces of evil that day.

It sounds like a bad Lifetime Network movie because it was patterned after one. This one, however, killed a planeload of American people after a handful of them were assured that if they cooperated with phone calls to loved ones, that they would save themselves from execution. I probably would've fallen for that lie too if I was on the ground with that hijack team that day. No one wants to die.

reply to post by NorEaster


So, in a nutshell, you think that if the passengers of Flight 93 would not have tried to do something, then we would have just looked the other way with regard to the World Trade Centers and the Pentagon?

Ohhhh, the government is lying. Let's prove that the government is lying.
Couldn't possibly be that the government is a bunch of numbnuts who have no idea what they are doing, eh? Maybe they are covering up their inadequacy because they are... stupid and ineffective. And if anyone knew that they wouldn't be reelected.

911 happened. AQ is real. Another plane(s) will go down on US soil in 2010 along with other AQ targets being carried out by cells in place. They will at some point use dirty bombs.
I would suggest that it's a waste of time to come to a conclusion that the government is.... dumb and use the time to prepare for disaster if it happens close to you. Or you can be like Haiti.

Originally posted by hooper
reply to post by NorEaster

 

So, in a nutshell, you think that if the passengers of Flight 93 would not have tried to do something, then we would have just looked the other way with regard to the World Trade Centers and the Pentagon?

Fascinating that you took this away from my post. I can't imagine anything that I could write that would make any sense to you if this is what you think that my post claims. Amazing.

Originally posted by JJay55
Another plane(s) will go down on US soil in 2010 along with other AQ targets being carried out by cells in place. They will at some point use dirty bombs.

You seem to be very sure of this. Maybe your IP address needs to be recorded, so that when these attacks occur, our idiotic government can waterboard the truth out of you as to how you got this information.

Originally posted by JJay55
Another plane(s) will go down on US soil in 2010 along with other AQ targets being carried out by cells in place. They will at some point use dirty bombs.

Well aren't you a bundle of sunshine. Its easy to blame terrorists if you have no grasp of history. As much as we like to see the world as black and white... good guy and bad guy, it is just this reason that populations are so easily manipulated. Then when something comes back to bite nations in the ass they have another driving force to control the populace its a vicious circle.

I'm sure this issue has been covered here more than once in past threads. The simplest explanation may be that this is just a symptom of the setting of the clock providing timestamps being off by a few minutes. From memory, the entire 30 minutes of recording was there (that recorder stored 30 minutes in a continous loop).

So, in a nutshell, you think that if the passengers of Flight 93 would not have tried to do something, then we would have just looked the other way with regard to the World Trade Centers and the Pentagon?

Fascinating that you took this away from my post. I can't imagine anything that I could write that would make any sense to you if this is what you think that my post claims. Amazing.

In terrorism, the real value is in the post-event marketing campaign, and the post-9/11 marketing campaign was built on the back of the Flt 93 hero narrative.

Yes, I wonder how I could have ever gotten that out of what your wrote.