Vatican blames Israel for all Christian problems in Mideast

Whoa...

Looks like the Vatican is slamming Israel in a document released recently. They say the Israeli occupation of muslem claimed lands is the cause of all the Christian oppression in the reigon.


Isreal Today

Vatican blames Israel for all Christian problems in Mideast

A document released by the Vatican this week blamed Israel not only for the exodus of Christians from Palestinian-controlled territories, but for the plight of Christians across the entire Middle East.

The document will serve as the basis for an October gathering of bishops to discuss the difficulties of minority Christian communities in the Muslim world.

It was largely authored by Arab bishops from the Middle East, most of whom said that the Israeli "occupation" of Arab-claimed lands is the root cause of nearly all oppression of Christians in the region. They suggested that in the absence of the "occupation," radical Islamic forces across the region would lose support and be unable to cause trouble for Christians.

The document also appeared to justify the use of terrorist violence by Muslims in both Israel and Iraq:

"Violence is in the hands of the strong and weak alike, the latter resorting to whatever violence is within reach in order to be free."

A Vatican official told reporters on Tuesday that the Catholic Church is not trying to take sides or make policy recommendations, but insisted that the Middle East-based bishops who authored the document "know the situation well."

So much for inter-religious dialogue. If this is true it could set back decades of peaceful relations between Isreal and the Vatican.

Isreal MUST BE PISSED!

Is this the end of friendly relations between the Vatican and Isreal?

Edit to add more sources:

Washington Post

Tablet

World Net daily

here's a link to the Catholic News Agency outlining the document:

Vatican Prepares for Middle East Synod by Outlining Reigonal Issues




[edit on 23-1-2010 by FortAnthem]

I don't know if you understand how much vatican wants the world to end. What type of land are we saying? Are we talking about the ancient temple that Israel wants to rebuild that answers biblical prophecy? So many holes in this article. I don't trust vatican. WAY too much power. What i don't understand is why would Islamist be upset at christians due to Jews taking their land.

reply to post by Jordan River

"What i don't understand is why would Islamist be upset at christians due to Jews taking their land."

Because of all the support the christian churches in America have for the jews and the jewish nation. If the truth be told the muslims hold Jesus in higher regards than the jews do. The Muslims believe Jesus was a great prophet and most of the Jewish people consider Jesus to be just some rowdy trouble maker who lived at the time.

Were people under the impression that all arabs are muslim or that there is not a Christian population in Israel? The Israeli government targets anyone that is not Jewish and both Christians and Muslims are oppressed within Israel. That is what infuriates me when American Evangelicals spew their great love for Israel or how it is their job to protect it, they are blissfully unaware that their fellow Christians are targets.

Originally posted by kenton1234
reply to post by Jordan River

 

"What i don't understand is why would Islamist be upset at christians due to Jews taking their land."

 

Because of all the support the christian churches in America have for the jews and the jewish nation. If the truth be told the muslims hold Jesus in higher regards than the jews do. The Muslims believe Jesus was a great prophet and most of the Jewish people consider Jesus to be just some rowdy trouble maker who lived at the time.

I do know that about who believes what of christ.. That still doesn't really make any sense to me. What does being american have to do with arabs treating christians like # in the middle east? Not all christians are Americans some are Arabs. My understanding was that majority of Christians (regardless of ethnicity) were being terrorized by Islamist groups in certain areas of the middle east due to jewish people taking landIs this a plot hole I am seeing that many Muslims don't??

[edit on 23-1-2010 by Jordan River]

Originally posted by searching4truth
Were people under the impression that all arabs are muslim or that there is not a Christian population in Israel? The Israeli government targets anyone that is not Jewish and both Christians and Muslims are oppressed within Israel. That is what infuriates me when American Evangelicals spew their great love for Israel or how it is their job to protect it, they are blissfully unaware that their fellow Christians are targets.

Yeah it sure sucks down there. It's more of a state of pride that Israel has acquired for themselves. To much pride and that turns into hate for others who are not like you/them

[edit on 23-1-2010 by Jordan River]

reply to post by FortAnthem

So much for inter-religious dialogue.

Isreal and the Vatican.

Bad analysis the least, firstly Israel is not a religion so this has nothing to do with inter-religious dialogue.

Israel as a state has caused hate between Muslim, Christian and Jews. That is a fair comment to make.

But if we go way back the European Jews invaded Palestine through Christian support. I don't know if the Vatican was involved, but the help came from somewhere, and it was mostly from destroyed Europe and the US.


[edit on 23-1-2010 by oozyism]

Originally posted by Jordan River
What i don't understand is why would Islamist be upset at christians due to Jews taking their land.

I believe that has to do with USA. Israel get's heavy funding (military and financial) from USA. For the outside world America is Christian country.

It took a lot of digging but I finally found a copy of the document for anyone who's interested.

PREFACE

The Acts of the Apostles, highlighting the communion and witness of Christians as followers of Jesus Christ, speaks in two passages of the sharing of goods. The first states: "and they devoted themselves to the Apostles' teaching and fellowship, to the breaking of bread and the prayers" (Acts 2: 42). Their way of life resulted from an intense unity: "and all who believed were together and had all things in common" (Acts 2: 44). The topic for the Special Assembly for the Middle East of the Synod of Bishops, to take place from 10 to 24 October 2010, is taken from the second passage: "Now the company of those who believed were of one heart and soul" (Acts 4:32). St. Luke gives two examples to illustrate this statement. The first is positive: Joseph called Barnabas, who sold a field he possessed "and brought the money and laid it at the apostles' feet" (Acts 4:37). The other, a negative one, is an account of a couple, Ananias and his wife Sapphira, who agree to give only a portion of the proceeds of the sale of land and keep the rest for themselves. Their deceit was discovered and the dramatic punishment caused "great fear" in the ecclesial community (cf. Acts 5:1-11). These instances call upon Christians to live the ideal of communion and witness in a concrete manner, urging them to fulfill their task not half-heartedly but completely, to the point of being truly "one heart and soul" (Acts 4:32).

Link to Document

And that's just the 1st paragraph...


edit to add: I was just looking over the document. It's no wonder this meeting isn't scheduled 'till October, It'll probably take about that long to read the whole thing!


[edit on 23-1-2010 by FortAnthem]

reply to post by FortAnthem

I think it is somewhat ironic that it was Dispensational Christians who made it possible through their influence to have Jews resettled into Israel.

The anti-prophecy of the Dispensational groups still keep support for Israel strong...
...but the result is the persecution of Christians.

So a church that produces pedohiles is suppost to be listened too?? Who in their right rational mind think Irael was the problem??.....'cmon. I've seen Catholicism CLOSE UP AND PERSONAL......it scares me.....the....so i half don't expect this kind of tripe coming from these pedophiles. WHY IS IT ISRAEL.....LOOK AT THESE muslims and Palestianias!!! That is where the problem is...it's as clear as glass. No debate needed.

If God existed he would not have created 3 different religions to worship him and confuse [SNIP] us to the point were we break rules that he supposedly set for us. (thou shant kill yall)

But if everyone thinks their religion is 100% correct, then they are all wrong.



[edit on 23-1-2010 by tooo many pills]



Censor circumvention removed

[edit on 25/1/10 by masqua]

Originally posted by FortAnthem
Is this the end of friendly relations between the Vatican and Isreal?

Well, possibly, but I know plenty of Catholics who think the Vatican is the AntiChrist, too.

If the Vatican is posturing against Israel, that would indicate to me that Israel has just one more enemy in the world.

And what do we know about the enemies of Israel?

Deuteronomy 20:1-4

1. When thou goest out to battle against thine enemies, and seest horses and chariots, and a people more than thou, be not afraid of them: for the Lord thy God is with thee, which brought thee up out of the land of Egypt.

2. And it shall be, when ye are come nigh unto the battle, that the priest shall approach and speak unto the people,

3. And shall say unto them, "Hear, O Israel; Ye approach this day unto battle against your enemies; let not your hearts faint; fear not, and do not tremble, neither be ye terrified because of them;

4. For the Lord your God is he that goeth with you, to fight for you against your enemies, to save you."

In other words, when you position yourself against Israel, you're going to battle with God Himself.

Something for the Vatican (AntiChrist) to think about.

— Doc Velocity






[edit on 1/23/2010 by Doc Velocity]

reply to post by Jordan River


I can't tell you how much the zionist Jews and Christians want the world to "end." They both have worked up an apocalyptic "end" in their imaginations. They strive for it.

Yeah, there is going to be an "end," but it's not going to be what anyone imagines. It's an "end" of the age. It will be a complete crash of the present system of society.

A term of opprobrium used by anti-Zionist Christians to designate and stereotype a variety of Christian Zionism that is today generally identified with evangelical and dispensationalist Christians. That group believes in rapture and may believe in rapture. It also believes in "Greater Israel" ideology. The vast majority of Christians who support Zionism and Israel are not fundamentalists. Moreover, not all evangelical Christian supporters of Israel believe in the characteristic doctrines of what has been called "Christian Zionism" - such as rapture and conversion of the Jews. "Christian Zionists" in the sense of Christians who support Israel, include Catholics as well as members of Protestant denominations. However, the term is generally reserved for members of Protestant denominations.

Christian Zionism

The Muslims are no better. They are avidly awaiting the return of the Mahdi, the Muslim Messiah.

Yes - "To break the cross and kill the swine" followed by an "eruption of fire in Eden".

This is what Christ is to do?

According to Islam, Christ is to comeback and "break the cross," and, yeah, yeah, "kill the swine." Sounds fun!!

Anyway, in regards to the Vatican's claim about Israel, I have a rather simple question. Are they really that far off base? I mean, you'd have to be rather ignorant, regardless of what you personally believe about Israel and the Arabs, to think that Israel does not play a role in the problems in the Middle East.

I have no use for the Vatican. However, on this count here, I can't say that the charge is completely false.

People need to wake up. They need to quit dreaming up these elaborate "end time" scenarios. They need to realize that the "end" will not be an end at all but a new beginning for the SPIRITUAL individuals who actually try to live right.

A very complex situation, exacerbated of course by Israel and encouraged by Israel's supporters

I don't think there can be any doubt Israel had its fingers amongst all groups and in fact, the early Israeli leaders boasted openly of their intention to create and foster wars against and particularly between Christian and Muslim Lebanese, as in ' Divide and Conquer', in order to expand Israel's borders


And it continues, is ongoing, right now

A little background reading here:
www.jamesrmaclean.com...

hundreds more sources online

remembering of course that Israel and its army of 'Online Troops' are engaged in the continual process of 'sanitizing' and 'removing' any content which reflects badly on them ... as most genuine sources do, of necessity and as true reflection of the history

Maybe the Vatican should take care of its own problems within catholcism.....like those catholic priests molesting young children perhaps?

reply to post by Dock9


That may be true but holding Israel solely responsible is also wrong. There have been crimes committed against Israel too, we should not ignore that.

This is interesting:

The United States has an absolute, uncompromising commitment to Israel's security and an absolute conviction that Israel alone must decide the steps necessary to ensure that security. That is Israel's prerogative. We accept that. We endorse that. Whatever Israel decides cannot, will not, will never, not ever, alter our fundamental commitment to her security."

(Al Gore, 18 May 2000)

so's this:

Let there be no doubt -- the United States of America stands with the State of Israel also because it is in our national interests to stand with the State of Israel."

(Nancy Pelosi, April 1, 2003)

"The Promised Land extends from the River of Egypt to the Euphrates. It includes parts of Syria and Lebanon."

(Yehudah Leib Fischmann, 1947)

Ambitious, but then, the Zionists/Israelis knew what they were going to do in the region, as far back as Theodore Herzl and his 'solution to the Jewish Problem, back in 1895

And as we see, Israel is WELL on its way to achieving its stated goals



Doesn't stop there, of course, as evidenced in the following quote:

"Israel has also become the main subcontractor of American arms. Just last year, Israel signed a contract to train and equip the Chinese army. It signed another multi-billion dollar contract to train and equip the Indian army. What is it equipping them with? It is equipping them with American weapons."

(Jeff Halper, 20 September 2003)

the only way our species will ever rise to the next level is to do away with religion, then money


we have the knowledge needed to do both, but we dont have the intelligence on a wide enough level



until our species can do away with at least religion and money we will continue to be plagued by violence and ignorance all caused by propaganda and misleading techniques by the religions and people in charge of religions and the money


im very hard pressed to think of one of societies problems that wouldnt be solved if we did away with religion and money



bottom line, there is a cure for cancer, it just isnt cost effective, and to put the true cure out there, would harm the economy by putting a lot of drs out of business

the only reason cancer is still around is because of money

the only reason there is violence in the middle east is because of religion and ignorance



personally i would love to be in a country where religion and money is banned, and we each just do our part and live in peace

Catholics just want to rule to world. Why else would it be called "roman" catholic?