Conspiracy Theorists vs. Sunstein: Propaganda, Misdirection and False Flags

Like many I read the posts concerning the desire by Cass Sunstein et al wanting to shut down sites such as this in a step towards total internet censorship or restructuring. Regardless of any given excuse, few here see anything but a tightening noose on freedom of speech furthering the spiral into tyranny.

ATS Thread

What has concerned me is the approach. How are they going to do it

This past weekend, having nothing else to do and being far too lazy to get up and grab the remote, I watched ‘The Hunt for Red October’ for the countless +1 time. What got my mind rolling was Alec Baldwin/’Jack Ryan’ trying to work out how Sean Connery/’Marco Ramius’ was going to get the crew off the sub.

‘How do you get people to want to leave a nuclear submarine...’

Well, how do you get people to want the destruction of free speech?

There has to be a saleable reason for such a blatant violation of the US constitution. The most effective and safest approach is to lead the masses into demanding it; here are the top three most likely tactics.

Propaganda

The fastest way is to bulk download everything on the site, search for inflammatory posts and present them to the public. Demonstrate that these sites are not just a breeding ground for discontent and subversion but also provide a meeting spot for nere-do-wells to organise and scheme.

Realistically this wouldn’t pose any significant problems to implement, assuming it hasn’t partially been done already (all phone calls are monitored for key phrases, obviously the web would be targeted as it has the advantage of being public domain...warrants aren’t required even if they felt the need to ask for them). Once a copy exists it’s simply a matter of picking what posts are singled out to (mis)represent to the public.

Easy though it may be, this is unlikely. Although our own words could be used against us, there is a chance that it would backfire. The problem that TPTB face is that they really don’t know how prevalent the public’s discontent is. By parading this site and the content within over the MSM they risk the real possibility of creating a greater awareness; people who feel isolated with their thoughts would see that they are not alone.

Every person that has their eyes opened not only means one less lamb in the flock, but also generates a ripple effect of people actually talking about real issues.

Too many risks for the effort...not enough bang for the buck.

Conspiracy Theorists: 1, Sunstein: 0.

[edit on 22-1-2010 by [davinci]]

Misdirection

If our own words being used against is too risky, why not join a site and plant information specifically tailored to the needs of TPTB. The advantage here is that depending on the language used and topic chosen, the FBI, Secret Service and even possibly Homeland Security can get involved under existing laws.

To really drive the point home multiple plants can be used to create a thread complete with supporting posts; any similar thoughts by the true public are gravy (or edited out of the final marketed story if they counter the objective). When the MSM is brought in to push the story there is the appearance of a fully active underground movement, one teetering on the edge of anarchy. The MSM can obviously be counted on to unquestionably accept whatever they are told based on any information they’re given as ‘evidence’.

Cass Sunstein has openly spoken and written of infiltration as a goal/option in response to this ‘problem’ (ie, unregulated free thought)

The problem here is crazy though some of us are, we are an astute bunch. If all of a sudden there is a series of highly inflammatory posts with supporting replies coming out of nowhere from people who have never gotten involved before: We’d notice.

That’s what we do, we notice things.

Any actions taken against the ownership of a site could result in TPTB’s own involvement being exposed. Remember, ISP’s now have to keep records of all internet use: their own noose could be used to hang them if the path led back to a government employee. For example, during the town hall meetings when that little girl commented on all the ‘mean signs’ protesting Obama's health care plan, we dug around and discovered that her mom was an Obama insider.

Very embarrassing.

ATS Thread

Definitely effective yes, but there is an obvious risk in provoking people who actively seek out and attempt to expose political manipulation or government abuse of power. Time and again it has been proven that there is always some piece of evidence left over in a cover up. People will always find it (eventually) and governments have fallen as a result.

Conspiracy Theorists: 2, Sunstein: 0.

[edit on 22-1-2010 by [davinci]]

False Flag

While sitting at home, a member realises that if a person filled their underwear full of PETN and used a bottle of acid as a detonator, they could create a big enough bomb to catastrophically damage an airliner. If a person were to carry out this attack during a holiday the effects would be greater as people are already in a heightened emotional state. The member posts this for comment and review.

Enter Sunstein and his minions, monitoring site activity.

Weeks later a ‘suspect’ tries to carry out an attack in exactly the way outlined in the post. Maybe they are successful and it is a horrible tragedy; maybe they fail and it’s a photo op highlighting the constant and evolving threat and the sacrifices required to overcome.

Over the course of the inevitable investigation it would be ‘discovered’ that a member of a conspiracy site had previously posted the exact methodology for carrying out the attack. The MSM would jump all over it and would be encouraged to draw any connection they wanted as long as it generated fear. The end result is that the ‘event’, although deliberately staged, would enrage the masses into demanding something be done about these domestic terrorists and their digital clubhouses.

This is the most dangerous and most likely approach as it effectively kills two birds with one stone: Sunstein gets us shutdown and the government gets a domestic security and public safety threat that requires some radical action to reduce.

Game: Sunstein.

I chose the Christmas bomber specifically because it resulted in the body scanners being rolled out worldwide (and, it is a past event). Also, this type of attack worries me; not only because it was a small, failed attack (assuming it was ever meant to succeed) resulting in a massive global reaction but also because as it gets harder for external threats to reach their target they will have to start coming from the inside. Who they are carried out by depends on which way the wind is blowing at the time.

We are already on a path to this end. Like many have commented; government never lets an opportunity pass them by. To allow paranoia to run rampant for a moment, if Sunstein and his ilk are talking about maybe infiltrating conspiracy websites, my belief is that they already are doing it.

They are only talking about it openly as a setup towards their next move.

[edit on 22-1-2010 by [davinci]]

I would like to thank you, for putting my thoughts over the last day or so into words.

I know the words have been twisted around from the original source. But guess what guys, you have to twist things that our leaders say, to read between the lines.

I thought to myself, if a group is to be targeted, they first have to be researched. After you have information on your foe, you think of a way to use it against them.
The thing about making a false flag attempt, reminds me of Columbine.
They immediately attacked the music and various other forms of media the boys enjoyed. They research, and then place blame with outside sources.

All it would take to shut down sites like ours, is for someone to research us. After that, they will need to select a subject to exploit.
The thing about that method, is it doesnt even have to be one of US. They can create an account, talk about a subject, and when the time is right, the pieces would be made to fit.

Just like in your example.

That of course, doesnt make us stop thinking/assuming/speculating. But it does disband us. We are no longer a group.

Right now, theres plenty of stuff they could use against the site. Such as the "revolution" threads, or the "Sons of Liberty".

I know what youre thinking. "We have the right to say what we want, and the Constitution gives us the right to question our leaders."

Well, not anymore. It's an out of date document. I have dealt with the legal system enough to know that this is true. The internet WILL be regulated in the near future. It's something to think about.

Star and flag.

Okay, suppose Sustien wants to shut down the internet. Let's suppose he manages to unleashe a hoard of hackers on ATS in order to find out who is making disparaging remarks about the current administration, or someone who believes in ET's, etc, etc, etc.
My question is this. Who gives a damn? The handles we use are a holdover from the old CB radio days, as well as a way to protect us from stalkers and maniacs.
Do I care the Cass Sustien cares what I say or think? The last time I checked, this is a free country, and SCOTUS just guaranteed the 1st amendment. That means I can say any what I want, when I want, as long as I don't yell fire in a crowded theater.
Do i think that Obama cares what I say, or what I think? I have no illusions that I am that important.
I will be proud to stand up to either one of the SOB's and tell them exactly what I think about their socialist ideals and where they can stuff them.

in my opinion they don't need to spread propaganda or put out misinformation... they just need to keep doing what they're doing.

just a matter of time before these idiots the 'sons of liberty' or some other militia makes an actual move... or someone like that guy who harrassed George Bush Sr. in the pizza shop... it's just a ticking time bomb and one of these days, some paranoid dumbass is going to think they are a revolutionary and do something stupid to someone and that will create a NEW division in homeland security... under the home-grown terrorist catagory, and then ANY anti-government talking will be scrutinized heavily because of fear of another incident.

those of you who think violence is the answer are going to be SERVED exactly what you've been ordering all of these years.. you wanted martial law... and you brought it upon yourself and others.

it's easy to pull a trigger, it's stronger to resist.

i'm sure the are well aware of the growing dissension that is expanding in this country... they are pushing our buttons because they know eventually anger will get the better of us... we will make the move and they need that in order to justify it... DUH...

if we attack them, of course they will knock us down... and THEN propaganda will convince the rest of us it was necessary.

i promise you... that is how it will happen.

reply to post by sourcesonly


Good post. I agree.

All it will take is a couple of these groups to take action, and we will be watched from now on.

And if you think "big brother" is out there NOW, you have no idea what could happen.

Attacking brutish bullies with their own methods doesnt really say alot in defense of your cause.

reply to post by InertiaZero


It's very hypocritical and it's a shame that they are so motivated to stop this force when their methods are actually creating it.

It's inspiring to see people that willing to put themselves on the line for the right reasons but it will do more damage than good. Right now we need to be thankful for the lives we have and the connections we make with others...

they are corrupt... and things will be happening that will make me want to jump up and do the same type of things these guys promise, but that is the test... do you have enough control to not let them win? or do you want to make the lives of everyone else very very horrible?

if you don't like what your government is doing... expose them. thats it... just expose them. and call them out every chance you get.

reply to post by sourcesonly


We have a broken system. It cant continue this way.

I dont think a physical revolution is needed. The situation that we are presented with, is like dealing with a friend that is an alcoholic.
You know, that you cant say or do anything to make them change their behavior. You could try to beat some sense into them, but that kind of action only enables their illusion of them being"the one incontrol".

You have to step back, and let things happen naturally. When they fail, a lesson will be learned. The same will go for our government.

So i say fight the things that you can. In a nonviolent way.

I dont want my internet controlled. I dont want our lovely website, ATS, to be shut down. But making videos of boys dressed up like Gi Joe, threatening the NWO, isnt going to make things better.

When the time comes, I think alot of us will fight the right way, against being regulated.

reply to post by sourcesonly


I agree completely with both of your posts. My goal is only to demonstrate another way the pressure is going to be applied.

Undoubtedly, US citizens are being pushed towards acting out in rage; removing or restricting free speech is just another straw on the proverbial camel's back.

Sooner or later it is going to be too much for a person or group to tolerate any longer.

Sadly, that is their goal.

Has anyone else realised that Obama still holds the dictorial powers he gave himself when he declared a national flu emergency? Those powers have a two year shelf life, all that's missing is a reason to use them.

Any reason.

[edit on 22-1-2010 by [davinci]]

reply to post by InertiaZero


Thank you, I took a couple days to get things straight before writting them down.

There is movement in the shadows of the halls of US power, hopefully calling them out over their actions will provide enough light to make the shadow recede a bit.

Even if only briefly.

I do see real change on the horizon and I truely hope to see it without bloodshed, however just this week PBS ran an inside view of the protests over the recent Iranian election.

Frontline: A death in Tehran
Part 2
Part 3
Part 4
Part 5

Without a responsible media and limited internet access it is truely appalling what a government can get away with when the outside world only receives tid-bits beyond the State's official word.

[edit on 22-1-2010 by [davinci]]

Funny, the thread I posted on Sunstein's crippled epistemology was actually drawing support and little attention from ATS'ers. Anywho...

Like I mentioned in my earlier post on the threats of this line of thought; TPTB could very easily generate a nefarious idea, then stage an event, and report it to Fox and CNN news and then Conspiracy Terror Alert light show on your drive home that would shut those terrorists and their conspiracy sites down.

Furthermore, I also mentioned that if these ideas are now seeing the light of day, out from behind NSA and CIA doors then rest assured the wheels are and already have been in motion.

Even if they did attempt to shut down conspiracy based sites im sure they would just find a net neutral country like switzerland or the virgin islands and host the servers there, they could not stop the exchange of information and ideas that they are so afraid of.

Infiltration isnt going to be much of an isue either, many researchers of the truths of many governmental statements and actions have become quite adept at spotting and dealing with operatives and infiltrators, this is probably why the government is thinking like this they know we are becoming a lot more savvy to their tactics and modus operandi.

It's impossible to put a turd in a punch bowl and make it look like an orange, it may be a few seconds before its discovered for what it really is but it wouldn't last long, schills and the obfuscation they bring are very obvious to the informed reseasrcher.

Schills can only work within the framework of whatever offical line there is for whatever is being presented as the truth, this is why this is happening the internet presents an insurmountable armour plate to those trying to penetrate the general collective psyche with lies.

Anyone interested in discovering the truth about something can very easily discover in the broadest terms if what the government is saying is the truth.

For instance the Official Construct of 9/11 anyone in minutes can find that the government is lying, but the fact remains we still dont know what exactly happened, a schill cannot go off topic and has to maintain the Official Construct and we can all smell a turd.

I believe the ongoing 9/11 investigation and the dissemination of truth about the CIA coc aine and other drug smuggling involvement are the greatest threeats to their sense of safety on the WWW.

We all know they are lying about a number of events more and more infornation is making it daily onto our collective plates for digestion and dissemination, the moment ONE of us makes a fundamental breakthrough every one else is going to access that information.

The internet is monitored moment by moment for information they deem to sensitive for the public domain how many times have we seen threads or pages 404'd (in one case an entire forum) pulled from the internet due to content?.
It happens all the time.

Their musings to do something like this is music to my ears because it tells me they are in trouble, someone somewhere is getting somewhere with whatever they are doing either alone or as a group and it is making them nervous.

it could just be that they have run some numbers and realise collectively we will shortly make real progress.
its just a question of time and numbers of people not accepting what they tell us to believe and continuing to educate themselves and those around them.

The cold light of day to something that black and evil is the most terrifying thing it could envisage, and people are turning many stones.

We are all becoming better aquainted to what the truth is and how much we have been lied to.

I think sites like this one i am linking DO cause headaches and sleepless nights for the lying thieving murdering stinking scum that are spoken of in the articles.

Please be sure to go to the archive section and thoroughly inform yourself of the editors discoveries.

When you do im sure you'll see why shutting down "conspiracy" talk on the internet is so important.

What is really going on with Haitis fundraising

Something to make you feel a little better about the world

[edit on 23-1-2010 by The X]

reply to post by [davinci]


I find the threads chock full of punch bowl turds. When you do ignore them, they do slip off and start a mutual admiration thread of dis-info.
I have just come across a real blatant lie from one I suspect of being to dis-info friendly.
This member repeated his lie over and over.
Would it pay to take a look at these posts as an example and see what can be done?
Thanks Donny

This is some hard truth. I hate to say it but I bet this is exactly how it will come about and in light of current events you were spot on. It remains to be seen how it is used.

reply to post by Subjective Truth


To be honest at the time that I wrote this I thought that 'they' would go straight to blaming us for an attack.

Looking at the situation now I believe they will go through all three steps; Set the ground work by drawing attention to these sites, directly manipulate the sites to get the type of story they want then finally post a story that will later be used as a false flag to finish us off.

reply to post by [davinci]


I do not even think they would need to manipulate the story. Hell just take one of the stories that are created on some such site and make it the exact same thing.

I am sure I could find 50-100 scenarios right on this site that they could use.

That is why I do not like to create what if scenarios. They could copy it and I would be the very next example to be held up.

reply to post by endisnighe


I agree with you 100%

There was a topic I had written a post for and upon rereading it deicided 'no' and rewrote it (I did include that I had editted it and why though). I still have the original saved to a file, and if I end up being correct I will create a thread for it.

We know for a fact that we are being monitored, I REFUSE to provide ideas to be used against us.

Their system is, bit by bit, becoming unbalenced, rushing back and forth from edge to edge in an attempt to correct it is only making the problem worse/more obvious. Sadly, throughout history the final option for those in power is a crackdown.

Dark days ahead I fear, but I have hope for what may rise from the ashes.