Hamas accepts Israel's right to exist

Originally posted by FraternitasSaturni

Originally posted by Chronogoblin
I've never really understood these types of threads.This may be extremely blunt... but who cares? If a bunch of religious fanatics want to kill each other... then where's the down-side? The only issue I could possibly have is the kids mixed up in the middle of it all, who really have no say-so either way. Obviously the jews think they are some kind of superior race that 'god' chose, and everyone else can sit on it, and rotate. Hmmm, that sounds disturbingly familiar... The muslims are just more of the same. Same tune, different singer. If the whole of the country just fell into the ocean I'm sure the world would be a better place.

Chrono

I have to share this... You're right! At least get it over with!

And you think this won't spill over into the EU, UK, Canada, and other places that enjoy a free society? Where do you think this war will take place?
Haven't thought it through much, eh?

reply to post by Mdv2


I'll reply to this next week, away on conference for a few days.

I must say it's very enjoyable to have a conversation about the Middle East with someone that doesn't scream genocide in every post. I don't think disagreement is a bad thing as long as it's grounded in reality.

Essentially, because Muslims conquered the territory now known as Palestine, they are making this claim that they have rights to this territory now and forever. Muslim claims to Israel is nothing but a bunch of whacked out nonsense. If the so called Palestinians wanted to live in peace with Israel, they very well could, but they insist on controlling the territory, rather than allow the Israels the ability to make their own laws. Instead the Palestinians are trying to conquer Israel through birth rates. They seem to have no concern at all about the consequences of their reckless actions will have on future generations.

There are no Palestinians, they are Syrians who had their citizenship revoked in order to be used as pawns in a propaganda campaign against Israel. If they were smart they would turn their back on Islam, adopt to the modern world, and stop having so many kids.

In another twenty years when the oil and the money are gone, the overbloated populations of the Muslim nations will find themselves without resources or sustenance. If they continue on with their current arrogance, creating trouble where ever they go, they will find that they are not welcome anywhere on the planet.

The smart ones will migrate to another country, turn their back on Islam, or else learn to greatly moderate the practice, and learn to join the modern world.

Those Muslim who continue to ignore the terrorist in their midst, and cling to the customs that make them unable to function in the modern world, will find themselves pushed into tighter and tighter circumstance, with a large percentage of them in non-Muslim nations spending their lives in jail.

I don't think Western nations are going to put up with the the types of circumstances that India has allowed. They will find ways to eliminate the Muslim immigrants who refuse to become a part of the culture in the nations where they have immigrated.

Meanwhile, the very determined Israelis will continue to expand their technological prowess. As the Islamic nations that surround them continue to weaken without the assistance from the once oil rich nations, Israel will most likely then expand its territory, and the rest of the world will look the other way.

China is not the ally of the Muslim world, and as China's power grows they will be looking to expand into Indonesia. In Indonesia, the Chinese will not be nearly so nice to the Muslim population there as the Europeans have been. The Chinese do not suffer from European guilt.

Already, the Europeans and other nations are waking up to the fact that they are currently being taken advantage of, and soon they will be over the whole guilt thing.

Originally posted by poet1b

Essentially, because Muslims conquered the territory now known as Palestine, they are making this claim that they have rights to this territory now and forever. Muslim claims to Israel is nothing but a bunch of whacked out nonsense. If the so called Palestinians wanted to live in peace with Israel, they very well could, but they insist on controlling the territory, rather than allow the Israels the ability to make their own laws. Instead the Palestinians are trying to conquer Israel through birth rates. They seem to have no concern at all about the consequences of their reckless actions will have on future generations.

There are no Palestinians, they are Syrians who had their citizenship revoked in order to be used as pawns in a propaganda campaign against Israel. If they were smart they would turn their back on Islam, adopt to the modern world, and stop having so many kids.

In another twenty years when the oil and the money are gone, the overbloated populations of the Muslim nations will find themselves without resources or sustenance. If they continue on with their current arrogance, creating trouble where ever they go, they will find that they are not welcome anywhere on the planet.

The smart ones will migrate to another country, turn their back on Islam, or else learn to greatly moderate the practice, and learn to join the modern world.

Those Muslim who continue to ignore the terrorist in their midst, and cling to the customs that make them unable to function in the modern world, will find themselves pushed into tighter and tighter circumstance, with a large percentage of them in non-Muslim nations spending their lives in jail.

I don't think Western nations are going to put up with the the types of circumstances that India has allowed. They will find ways to eliminate the Muslim immigrants who refuse to become a part of the culture in the nations where they have immigrated.

An excellent summary of a reality so many try to avoid.

The Muslim World has risen on the strength of new found financing and confidence with the reliance of the West on their oil resources. The region should be one of the most developed in the world after half a century of circulating new found wealth, but it isn't.

Agricultural reforms, mass secular education, equalization of female rights, embracing modern technology, representative governance, are all spurned in favour of stagnation. Japan, China, India race ahead, the Middle east falls father behind.

With hundreds of millions more mouths to feed and less arable land due to neglect, a collision course is inevitable. Whole civilizations have made massive judgement errors that lead to their decline and fall. The Mayas, the Romans, Egypt, and many others.

We're seeing a classic death throes mode now, where tribal disputes take precedence over domestic reforms and development. A huge drain of wealth, talent and brain power as the more ambitious and brighter flee to more civilized parts of the world.

It doesn't have to be this way. But countries run by corrupt despots, potentates, clerics and kings are not responding to the need of their peoples. The communal is causing chaos and destruction to the West, to the Jews, to Christians, will somehow make things better. Resentment and hostility.

Spontaneous Revolutions are what changed Russia, China, France, the US. We'll see if it happens in the Muslim world eventually. No sign yet.

Originally posted by poet1b
There are no Palestinians, they are Syrians who had their citizenship revoked in order to be used as pawns in a propaganda campaign against Israel. If they were smart they would turn their back on Islam, adopt to the modern world, and stop having so many kids.

Actually, the people living there were original semitic speaking (who were from Middle East, North Africa and the Horn of Africa.) culture from the previous Chalcolithic Period. It was later people who traded from Arabian peninsula and Syria joined (however, there is no concrete proof of that till date and is still a guesswork). After that there was waves of migration which brought other groups onto the land. Around 1200 BCE the Hittite empire was conquered by allied tribes from the north.

The Phoenicians of Lebanon, were temporarily displaced, but returned later. The Egyptians called the horde that swept across Asia Minor and the Mediterranean Sea the Sea Peoples. The Philistines were among them, giving the name Philistia to the region in which they settled, now known as Gaza. During this time, the Israelites emerged in the area. The Israelites dwelt in tribes amongst the other local inhabitants until the installment of King Saul in 879 BCE. After this, only according to the Bible, King David and King Solomon reigned and built the First Temple in Jerusalem. As per the Bible with the death of King Solomon around 925 BCE, the Israelites fell into civil war, and the kingdom split into the northern Kingdom of Israel and the southern Kingdom of Judah after which in 722 BCE, the northern Kingdom of Israel was destroyed by the Assyrians, many of its inhabitants were deported and replaced by settlers and the rest stayed behind.

It is only due to Bible storybook Israel says it owns the region. However, skipping that part and coming to current time most probably as Israel's apartheid either world will choose to ignore it as it's doing untill now or stop it as they did in South Africa and Nazi Germany.

I'm not sure what this means
"BEIRUT -- Hezbollah has dispersed its long-range-rocket sites deep into northern Lebanon and the Bekaa Valley, a move that analysts say threatens to broaden any future conflict between the Islamist movement and Israel into a war between the two countries.
More than 10,000 U.N. troops now patrol traditional Hezbollah territory in southern Lebanon along the Israeli border, and several thousand Lebanese armed forces personnel also have moved into the area. A cross-border raid by Hezbollah guerrillas in summer 2006 triggered a month-long war that prompted the United Nations to deploy its force as part of a cease-fire."
www.washingtonpost.com...

This is with Iranian support and looks like they are gearing for war... not peace.

negotiating with the israelis is like a prisoner negotiating with the prison warden. israel has all the power, all the guns and thanks to bush 3 billion in american taxpayer money being embezzled every year. israel gets 3 billion a year in "aid" which then goes to buy military equipment from american arms corporations. this is theft of american tax money at a massive scale. if israel or any other nation wants to buy military eqiupment then do it with your own money.

Reply to post by Pr0t0

Oh. This is good news. Perhaps there is hope to end the insanity after all.


Posted Via ATS Mobile: m.abovetopsecret.com

Originally posted by Watcher-In-The-Shadows
Reply to post by Pr0t0

 

Oh. This is good news. Perhaps there is hope to end the insanity after all.

 

Posted Via ATS Mobile: m.abovetopsecret.com

 

You didn't read the Washington Post article that says that Hamas is moving their weapons closer to Israel?
The acceptance of Israel's right to exist only invites them to convert before they are blasted to hell.

Originally posted by JJay55
You didn't read the Washington Post article that says that Hamas is moving their weapons closer to Israel?

The acceptance of Israel's right to exist only invites them to convert before they are blasted to hell.

This is getting spooky. The Saudis now in direct conflict with Iran in Yemen. Unusual activity in Syria, Lebanon, Gaza - all acting as proxies for Iran. Iranian military balking.

Is it all unconnected? Is Iran just being confrontational to gauge how far it can push?

Is it Gunfight at the OK Corral?




[edit on 23-1-2010 by mmiichael]

Originally posted by mmiichael

Originally posted by JJay55
You didn't read the Washington Post article that says that Hamas is moving their weapons closer to Israel?

The acceptance of Israel's right to exist only invites them to convert before they are blasted to hell.

This is getting spooky. The Saudis now in direct conflict with Iran in Yemen. Unusual activity in Syria, Lebanon, Gaza - all acting as proxies for Iran. Iranian military balking.

Is it all unconnected? Is Iran just being confrontational to gauge how far it can push?

Is it Gunfight at the OK Corral[/quote
From a couple of sources, the next step is to burn the Saudi oil fields. From Walid Phares there is already an effort to cut off the oil in Yemen, that will quickly spread to Saudi once there is a crack.
With pirates in Somalia having control of the shipping lanes that will halt oil export. Saudi will be really pissed at that point... maybe, maybe not, they might sit back and let all their people kill each other.
And the US can easily stomp into Venezuela and take what we need. I mean, make a deal with Chavez, making the Carribbean the new Dubai.

Anyway, yes, gunfight at the OK Corral, John Wayne, Cowboys and Muslims... that's the word. But remember, they are all brothers in the Muslim Brotherhood in the end. If they lose a few hundred/thousand/million martyrs it's no big deal.

AQ just took responsibility for Christmas bombing locking the Christian holiday theory, which means the Feast of Jesus or whatever it's called Jan 28-February 3rd might see some action. Lots of chatter out there in UK, Canada, US, and elsewhere. Stock up just in case.

Originally posted by Mdv2
I haven't seen anyone mentioning Hamas to be the good boys. They are terrorists, but the fact remains that they have significant power in Gaza and on a fair share of the Palestinian people. As I previously stated, Israel should be forced to engage in a dialog. Like I also stated, Hamas has equally often rejected to recognize Israel as they accepted it, but that cannot be a reason to stop further dialog. If you think like that, they could rather bomb Israel and the Palestinian territories. Each and every opportunity should be taken. I only doubt Israel is seriously interested in a two-state solution.

Israel found out what happens when you handed over Gaza to the Palestinians. Non-stop rockets, missiles, shelling, border soldiers kidnapped, tunnels dug, weapons smuggled. Iranian Revolutionary Guard brought in to train the locals, al Qaida said to have set up a base of operations.

So where are peaceful Palestinians deprived of their homes who claim they just want to have a normal life and tend to their orange groves?

The tone has darkened in negotiations with it becoming evident the Arab League is looking for leverage to further devastate and ultimately destroy Israel. This is just the conclusion to the 60+ year war they could never concede they lost in the first 3 rounds.

Revenge and destruction - not peace and mutual respect. This is not a surmise so much as a summary of their own rhetoric.

There is a reason after occupying Gaza for two decades they refused to take control of it again. Why Kuwait threw out 450,000 Palestinians, Lebanon and Jordan don't want them as citizens.

Peace and co-operation agreements were made in every case, but the Palestinians always found not the keep them.