ATS Haitian Conspiracies?

People here at ATS want a "Haitian" conspiracy?

I'm not talking about [American Earthquake Machines, Haitian Gold/Oil or a staging area to invade Venezuela from]

Let's talk about all the money that has been raised both public and private. Over the next year somebody should track how much was raised and where it was spent.

Between the US and UK alone they have raised hundreds of millions [or more] dollars coming not only from the Governments but the private sectors. Not to mention the rest coming from all over the planet. Theoretically the dollar amounts raised could exceed the population level in which the amounts would be between several thousands or tens of thousands per person.

This amount is above and beyond what has already been and will be spent on food, medicine and supplies.

I can see potential for large public works projects. New Hospitals Schools and "other" "infrastructure" programs. Yet after it is all said and done there will be again not enough "Jobs" to raise taxes to pay for the maintenance in their future. In ten years they could be right back where they were before the Earthquake.

But we the citizens of the world feel much better becuase we wrote some checks.



[edit on 21-1-2010 by SLAYER69]

If we are engaging in "what ifs"...what if you are wrong? What if all of this money is used to rebuild Haiti into something better than the 3rd world shanty town it was, and what if doing so brings the Haitians into the 21st century, and what if this increases and actualizes the idea of creating more jobs, better technology, and all of the advantages of living in 2010?

which is kinda the plan...but I guess that part is better left ignored.

If I am correct, then I consider it money very well spent.

reply to post by SLAYER69


www.imf.org...

IMF and World Bank Approve US$1.2 Billion Debt Relief for Haiti
Press Release No. 09/243
July 1, 2009
Haiti was granted US$1.2 billion of debt relief by reaching the completion point under the Enhanced Heavily Indebted Poor Countries (HIPC) Initiative approved by the Boards of the International Development Association (IDA) and the International Monetary Fund (IMF). Haiti is now the 26th country to reach the completion point under the Initiative. Debt service savings result from the HIPC Initiative (US$265 million) and the Multilateral Debt Relief Initiative (MDRI) (US$972.7 million).

To reach the completion point, Haiti carried out a number of reforms despite a challenging environment marked by major natural disasters, a food and fuel crisis, difficult political conditions, and the impact of the global economic downturn. These reforms were aimed at establishing a more stable macroeconomic environment and at implementing its national poverty reduction strategy. Haiti strengthened public expenditure management by better focusing poverty reduction spending, producing audited government accounts, ensuring commitment to an asset declaration law, and adopting a law on public procurement.

Whats going on now barely scratches the surface!

reply to post by SLAYER69




It was the same during the relieft effort for the Tsunami and probably the same in just about every catastrophe of recent times.
It's a shame that people would take advantage of a situation like this for personal gain but it obviously happens.

Just look at the Dictators in Africa and how much they've stolen from donations, both monitarily and aid/food-wise.

Short of flying your own plane into the affected areas, i can't really see a safe and trustworthy way of making sure your donation, along with the millions of others, actually gets to it's intended recipient.

Lets look at it from their perspective for a moment...they live in absolute appalling conditions...and are probably look at 1st world countries like they would be heaven and are so lucky to have the things they have...they'd do anything to have what we have...then they get hit by a massive Earthquake...and we say..."Oh...to bad...if we lend you money you'll probably just end up right back where you started...so we just wont help you at all...we're to busy working on our own economy because we don't want to risk becoming like YOU"...

[edit on 21/1/10 by CHA0S]

Originally posted by CHA0S
then they get hit by a massive Earthquake...and we say..."Oh...to bad...if we lend you money you'll probably just end up right back where you started...so we just wont help you at all...we're to busy working on our own economy because we don't want to risk becoming like YOU"...

[edit on 21/1/10 by CHA0S]

Who said that though?

That is not what's happening is it?

reply to post by TLCOB


If you read the initial post, you will see Slayer basically proposed that there was no point in giving them so much money because they will just end up back where they started...what I said obviously didn't happen, but it's basically what would have happened if we chose not to pay them...I really don't see why we shouldn't pay them...I mean...are we really that greedy?!? But I guess the point Slayer is making, is that we are probably over-paying them...

Haiti's economy is ruined because of the debt it owes to France. Most of its GDP goes toward debt repayment, leaving very little left for actual use in the countries infrastructure. Haiti has hit the absolute bottom and any of the relief it sees from this disaster can only bring it up. Just the rebuild alone will bring daily life to a better standard. How can it not?

Cuhail

PS- On Topic, I think the relief efforts are, indeed, going to pad a lot of pockets that have little to no connection to any disaster in Haiti. There's no mistaking that there are some low class theives dressed in sharp clothes out there. Greed is popular.

C

reply to post by CHA0S



I did read Slayers initial post and my interpretation differs slightly from yours.
I believe (i may well be wrong) that he was saying that perhaps there was a better way in which we could help the haitians and perhaps a short-term fix was not the solution.
Long-term stability and maintaining the infrastructure would obviously be key to securing a long-term, successful future for the Haitian people.

Just givig them food and water and perhaps funding the constrction of several key buildings and amenities is not quite enough.

But in my opinion, the earthquake is not the only problem Haiti has, theirs is a much more difficult and much more deep-seated issue.

It's my opinion that things will get better for the Haitians once the greedy quit hogging all the aid money and raise the average income of the population to more than ~$1000 a year.

Also, let's hope that those actually rebuilding the infrastructure of the country does it in such a way as to withstand the earthquakes the region produces.

So, who's going to do this rebuilding? Let's hope it's not bambam.

Haliburton?

grammar edit

[edit on 21/1/10 by masqua]

What's happening is exactly what was laid out in the initial assessment of the 'opportunities in Haiti'.

16,000 troops now in Haiti but most of these at the airport offering security and forein aid workers such as the firemen who were flown out from the UK for example have been unable to leave the airport for 'security fears' and restrictions imposed by the US military. 3 US leaders heading up the 'campaign', IMF offering loan funding and I guarantee the infrastructure will be rebuilt by US contractors.

16,000 troops and no one on the ground is seeing aid getting through to the capital... how is that even logistically possible? Even 1 pack per soldier per day is, ok let's say 12,000 troops as 4000 are being added as we speak, that's still in the past week and a bit since the quake at least 100,000 packages... but judging from the reports from aid workers already there nothing like this is being distributed.

It doesn't take a genius to do the math on how long it would take for aid to reach 3million affected in the city if all of those troops had van fulls of aid or were actually helicoptering in the aid. But this, as confirmed by aid workers who were already in Haiti, is not happening... so you have to ask what the hell are the US military doing out there if not supporting the relief effort as they claim to be?

As for further conspiracy which I haven't mentioned until now...

Facebook Poker made by Zynga has been advertising 'Chips for Haiti' from September of last year... they removed this option now in favour of 'Support Haiti Relief' but it does seems that some people had incredible foresight since I hadn't previously seen any 'theme' to support particular areas of the world... why Haiti and not elsewhere? Sure, it was poor, but by far not the poorest. This type of 'name placement' seems to happen conicidentally all too often.

Take Mr Lionel Pierre of Pierre Solutions LLC Fla who registered www.opportunityhaiti.com and .org around the same time... what did he know in September last year? Perhaps nothing, perhaps a legitimate innocent coincidence... but since neither site is yet active, I can't wait to see what goes up there.

Maybe i should take the tin hat off on this one... can't help thinking theres more to it though.

I'm not advocating the HAARP conspiracy, or the injection of chemicals to induce EQ theories... but it seems we need to keep an eye on where the profits go and that may well lead us to a source.

reply to post by TLCOB


Yeah, well, I'd have to agree with you fully on that one. I guess I didn't quite interpret it like that at first, and it's probably more what Slayer was trying to get at, I guess I just jumped in too fast.

What have modern resource rich countries done when they encounter sudden new sources of income? They establish a monetary fund to be used by prosperity, future citizens in wise ways. This is done so that the windfall is not waisted, squandered, or misused by governmental officials. This requires that existing government is fair competent and forward thinking.

Haiti historically has a record of poor government, poor decisions and decisionmaking to the extent that is a shining example to the world of how not to manage your affairs.

How do you go in at this point and say this is what you will do and this is how you will do it to be fair and proper?

To give an idea of how much money we are talking about:

Relief Web Haiti

The first two PDF's on the list (especially A) are quite detailed.

Total Humanitarian Funding
A. List of all humanitarian pledges, commitments & contributions in 2010
B. Total Humanitarian Funding per Donor in 2010

I think we need to take into consideration that the earthquake did the most damage in a certain area around the capital. This means most of the relief money and reconstruction projects will mainly be concentrated in this area.

That means a lot of Haiti will remain untouched and still in urgent need of jobs.

Here is a map of of Haiti population density and where the quake hit the hardest.

www.reliefweb.int...$File/map.pdf?OpenElement

I believe Haiti should be helped. But as far as rebuilding, I think the emphasis should be put on improving the whole country, not just the area affected by the quake.

Obviously helping them out of this situation is priority one. I just wanted to point out the real possibility of mass corruption is valid.

Originally posted by SLAYER69
Obviously helping them out of this situation is priority one. I just wanted to point out the real possibility of mass corruption is valid.

I think there is no doubt that mass corruption is a concern. In fact, I'd say it's probable and I'm sad to say, expected... There will be waste. There will be payoffs. There will be funds diverted for unknown reasons, to unknown places. There will be companies that profit from rebuilding and those companies are not likely to be local. I think there will be something for "everyone" in this disaster... except, perhaps, the local "joe" living in the shanty (those shacks that survived the quake, that is) for the others, it's tent-city outside of town. I don't know, that may actually be a step up...




[edit on 21-1-2010 by LadySkadi]

Originally posted by LadySkadi
To give an idea of how much money we are talking about:

Relief Web Haiti

The first two PDF's on the list (especially A) are quite detailed.

Total Humanitarian Funding
A. List of all humanitarian pledges, commitments & contributions in 2010
B. Total Humanitarian Funding per Donor in 2010

Thanks for the source.

Originally posted by plumranch
Haiti historically has a record of poor government, poor decisions and decisionmaking to the extent that is a shining example to the world of how not to manage your affairs.

You give a man a fish you feed him for a day.
Teach him how to fish he can feed himself for life.

Haiti is a country that has for over two centuries has had France the United States and much of the world conspiring against it.

Born of a slave rebellion in the early 1800’s that slaughtered almost every White French Person in the Island that act sent shockwaves through the United States as Napoleon twice attempted to conquer the island with French troops with President Alexander Hamilton first conspiring with Napoleon and the Thomas Jefferson worriedly conspiring against Napoleon fearing that if successful the French Armies would leave Haiti for Louisiana and heavily refortify their holdings in New Orleans at the mouth of the Mississippi blocking vital American and British shipping up and down the river way and American expansion Westward.

Jefferson being a large slave owner himself actually feared the rebellion in Haiti would eventually lead to a slave rebellion here in America. At one point he floated a proposal before Congress trying to pass a law that every Black born in America would be shipped to Haiti after birth to phase out slavery and blacks in America through attrition and deportation to homogenize it entirely into a White nation.

When it became clear Bonaparte could not field a large enough army across the ocean to ever put down the Rebellion let alone expand settlements in Louisiana this led to the Louisiana Purchase and America being able to expand westward all the way to the Pacific unchallenged.

It all so led to a long campaign of saddling Haiti with dept, trade restrictions and occasional military intervention through the flimsiest of pretexts over the years to keep the only Black led free nation in the Western Hemisphere from succeeding to the point that it became an attractive notion for blacks in America and elsewhere to seize power of the governments and nations through similar means.

Every effort conceivable by the international community is in fact made to keep Haiti from ever developing beyond the poorest of third world nations for that simple reason.

There is little chance that the undereducated and dirt poor and now destitute people of Haiti are going to be advanced forward through this crisis. Most of the money will be diverted and stolen by the people controlling the aide, funneled to preexisting loans and interest, and applied as down payments to new even greater loans in a process largely controlled by America, the UN and the IMF.