I need help PROVING the global warming hoax

Hi there ATS,
I am having conversations with people who are DIE HARD 'global warming is caused purely by MAN' type folks. I have been suggesting global warming is a solar event and the warming we are experiencing is a cyclical thing NOT caused by us driving cars around.
Now mind you, I am seriously AGAINST the horrible pollution man is spewing out without thought as to the damage it does to our environment. I am HORRIFIED by the pacific garbage island, and wish people were more worried about cleaning THAT mess up than focusing so much energy on socialized healthcare.
I wish we could enact a worldwide NO TOLERANCE policy when it came to air and water pollution.....but I am an idealist and a dreamer.

I need some help from ATS.
I need links to scientists who are claiming that the planets warming is a solar event, a NATURAL cycle that Earth goes through again & again.....no matter what kind of emissions our cars are farting. Are there such scientists?
Are there people claiming that pollution doesn't add anything to the temperature of the planet?

So far I have been seeing the pollution problem, and the idea that we MAY be heading toward another ice age as SEPARATE from one another, yet I am bombarded by talking heads who claim they are one & the same.
For the sake of educated argument I am seeking more information about these events being separate and NOT connected....unless of course they ARE in fact entwined & inseparable.



[edit on 18-1-2010 by theRiverGoddess]

Global Warming is perpetuated by the profiteers and power-mongers who want and need Copenhagen to be a success. This just happens to be their most successful "problem" that needs the Cap & Trade solution.

Please understand that if it isn't global warming, it will be global cooling, or saving the earth's magnetic field, or "anything" that dooms us that can be used as an excuse to get Cap & Trade... something has to be used to get Cap & Trade... THAT is the goal that needs a perceived problem to feed the fire and get it implemented. Arguing back and forth about "Global Warming" isn't going to solve the problem.. .the problem is exposing the goal of Cap & Trade for what it is so that it NEVER gets implemented.

Even the environmentalists are now selling out the Cap & Trade crowd. The primary push for Pro Global Warming arguments is based on implementing the CARBON CREDIT SCAM. Not "solving" any perceived problem.

Watch This: The Story of Cap & Trade... FROM the FAR LEFT. They even know CAP & TRADE is a bogus SCAM. Seriously, watch the video, the explanation is in the beginning and will only take 5 mins of your time... and it is well worth it because these Lefties are right on the money describing the scam for what it is.

links.org.au...


This is the reason for the Global Warming blitz. What we do KNOW and everyone with half a brain KNOWS including the crazy die hard environmentalist and conservatives alike is that the CARBON CREDIT SCAM is a scam. The biggest most costly scam in history to enrich wall street traders and the financial sector.. not to mention has FAILED everywhere it has been implemented... but that of course is the idea, to implement the largest taxes in history and NEVER solve the problem, less we loose the tax.... get it?

The Debate Is Over! The Science is Settled! The CAP & TRADE SCAM Deniers can no longer even debate that Cap & Trade is not a scam. Usually when this is brought into the picture the GW crowd goes running for distractions.... because most of them still support the insane Cap & Trade scam. (mostly because they have no idea how much of a SCAM it really is.)

But now you have both the Left, The Right, and anyone not directly making a profit telling the truth about the carbon credit / cap and trade scam. Don't let them sucker you into supporting it because "they say" they are helping the environment... they are helping themselves at mine, yours, and everyone elses expense.



[edit on 19-1-2010 by infolurker]

I have 5 feet of Snow coming this week...

I don't need scientific evidence, I have to shovel the fact that it's a load of nonsense every 3 hrs...

Wouldn't the largest profit be for big businesses if global warming was made into a hoax? I would imagine that would far eclipse anything cap and trade would see.

That can't be right though... Rush and many oil companies made movies and lobbied with hundreds of millions of dollars to prove global warming is a farce and we should pollute more to save us. Rush and the oil companies would never lie to me.

At least you admit there is some warming, most on here say that none of the glaciers are melting.

Originally posted by mopusvindictus
I have 5 feet of Snow coming this week...

I don't need scientific evidence, I have to shovel the fact that it's a load of nonsense every 3 hrs...

Another perfect example of somebody who doesn't understand global warming but will fight tooth and nail against it. I don't need dem facts, I seen snow. snow means the world is cold. You can't have cold with global warming....

reply to post by infolurker


Oh I am with you infolurker......I think its a TOTAL SHAM and just another way for the power hungry to lay down more laws & take more taxes.
100%

What I am in need of here, are reports from scientists claiming that according to their research the so called warming of our planet IS a normal & natural cyclic event.

My heart bleeds for you mopus......here in Utah we are having a January thaw as usual, but winter will kick back into high gear soon enough.



[edit on 19-1-2010 by theRiverGoddess]

Maybe you should look at the science first then base your opinion on that, instead of getting an opinion first and then looking for evidence later?


Just sayin'.

Here are some sources:

www.dmi.dk...

www.nature.com...

www.agu.org...

www.sciencedirect.com... _acct=C000050221&_version=1&_urlVersion=0&_userid=10&md5=dfcb4068948d75ffeacde9e6ba2c8c0e

[edit on 19/1/2010 by C0bzz]

First, you need to tell them climate change is normal. the globe is not warming, its cooling. tell them to look at history for that. if they decide not to, who cares, just don't let it change your relationship with the people whom you love.

Originally posted by whoshotJR
Wouldn't the largest profit be for big businesses if global warming was made into a hoax? I would imagine that would far eclipse anything cap and trade would see.

That can't be right though... Rush and many oil companies made movies and lobbied with hundreds of millions of dollars to prove global warming is a farce and we should pollute more to save us. Rush and the oil companies would never lie to me.

At least you admit there is some warming, most on here say that none of the glaciers are melting.

Oh no, the oil companies are far from innocent... they are of course protecting their profits but their profits are pennies compared to Cap & Trade. Oil companies bring in tens of billions by selling their product..... CAP & TRADE will bring TRILLIONS by taxing all of us.

Oil companies look like mom and pop retail stores against Walmart in this fight.


I would be happy to discuss or debate the "science" of global warming AFTER this scam is off the table. With this scam being pushed by the pro-global warming crowd, it is difficult to see pro-global warming arguments as completely legitimate and truthful while pressing this financial scam as a solution.

Here are real solutions: www.abovetopsecret.com...



[edit on 19-1-2010 by infolurker]

reply to post by infolurker


Are you sure about that? Exxon man like 50 billion in profit last year and thats down from the year before. Chevron made like 30 billion this year and again that's down from the year before.

That is just 2 companies.

People focus on Cap and trade and think its just a way for the people to be taxed but its really not. Its a horrible idea that allows big companies who can pay to play, a way to cut costs and not care about their impact on the environment. This will actually make things worse and increase their profits. That is a much bigger issue to me. It also allows you to bring back production to the US without needing to meet strict environmental standards.

If they wanted to tax the people and make trillions its pretty easy for them to do besides cap and trade, just put a tax against the companies and they will pass it to the consumers. We see a price increase and do nothing of it. Pass a bill to tax the people and they will complain and protests.

Follow the dollar, it will go to the pockets of big companies.

reply to post by whoshotJR


Another point to add is that people really need to separate global warming from cap and trade or politics.

Is it bad to pollute the earth? Yes.

That is all that should matter.

reply to post by whoshotJR


Don't make assumptions

I could scientifically knock your head off I just felt like having a laugh on the subject...

There is not an IOTA of Truth to Global Warming being caused by man, not an inch of it is real...

The trend for Eons is periodic Ice Ages

Even if we warm the Earth by a degree or two (which completely has to do with stellar phenomena NOT US) it would only be to our benefit in the long run because when the Earth cools again Human Civilization will be far more screwed by far more powerful forces of temperature change than anything we ever can do to warm it...

For Europe and North America Global Warming even if real would be nothing other than a salvation in the near future...

And I'm not a fan

of depopulation scum... who make up LIES to suit their control agendas...

Day after day from the Himalaya reports to The New Zealand data we get more info that the whole thing is an agenda driven scam

And it's disgusting already

Originally posted by C0bzz
Maybe you should look at the science first then base your opinion on that, instead of getting an opinion first and then looking for evidence later?


Just sayin'.

Good point
Let me say that my opinion has come about via my vast reading on ATS.....
I however failed to save links, and now finding myself going through the FRAGILE EARTH forum seeking things I know I read before.....

I see glaciers melting with my own eyes and do not doubt they are melting, but is it REALLY caused by driving cars? Its been CRAZY HOT in Utah every summer since 98 and in all my life I dont remember it being this extreme so I am on board that something is heating things up........I am more inclined to think it is coming from the sun. Thats what I have been 'getting' from reading the arguments on ATS.
......BUT what IF all this heat is just getting through to us now because we have mostly destroyed the ozone layer with hair spray?? Could it be that simple?? As Mopus states above, The trend for Eons is periodic Ice Ages, and that is based on real scientific research.





[edit on 19-1-2010 by theRiverGoddess]

Originally posted by whoshotJR
reply to post by infolurker

 

Are you sure about that? Exxon man like 50 billion in profit last year and thats down from the year before. Chevron made like 30 billion this year and again that's down from the year before.

That is just 2 companies.

People focus on Cap and trade and think its just a way for the people to be taxed but its really not. Its a horrible idea that allows big companies who can pay to play, a way to cut costs and not care about their impact on the environment. This will actually make things worse and increase their profits. That is a much bigger issue to me. It also allows you to bring back production to the US without needing to meet strict environmental standards.

If they wanted to tax the people and make trillions its pretty easy for them to do besides cap and trade, just put a tax against the companies and they will pass it to the consumers. We see a price increase and do nothing of it. Pass a bill to tax the people and they will complain and protests.

Follow the dollar, it will go to the pockets of big companies.

Here, seriously.. watch the video.. this is from pro-global warming people who fully explain the scam. links.org.au...

reply to post by mopusvindictus


Please, knock my socks off. Its almost bedtime anyway.

You said
"I have 5 feet of Snow coming this week...

I don't need scientific evidence, I have to shovel the fact that it's a load of nonsense every 3 hrs... "

I'm not assuming there. You are saying snow at your house = global warming is fake.

So maybe choose your words better then?

I totally agree with you that cap and trade is a scam to make money though. And my words sound course here but I don't mean it as a slight.

[edit on 19-1-2010 by whoshotJR]

reply to post by whoshotJR


Well that I 100% agree with, it is bad to pollute, it is terrible for the environment, it is UGLY and bad for your Health and the sooner we leave behind fossil fuels the better.

It still doesn't justify false data for the masses to convince them...

And the Earth still will cool far more than we will warm it soon enough

Please by all means end pollution as fast as possible...

But don't make things up to scare people into it...




[edit on 19-1-2010 by mopusvindictus]

reply to post by theRiverGoddess


Well, it's a good thing i'm here.
This is all you need.
Save the PDF to your hard drive and then just print it out.
Show them the link also.
The Truth - The Whole Truth

And aside from personal observation when I have been told for a decade Winter would be gone, some of the worst cold and snow on record really does make a statement...

I'm far more concerned about the number of chemicals we are dripping into the air than if the water level rises a drop...

there was a 100 ft rise 10,000 yrs ago before we did anything after the last Ice Age...

Mother Nature is by Fact more extreme than anything we will do temperature wise...

Now if you want to talk about killing of species, mutation, pcb's yeah we are a bunch of planet bashers for sure...

But the reality is...we have far more to worry about than "global warming" real issues that affect our health daily and the health of species all over the planet...

There is a tragedy coming but it's not from a temperature rise...

reply to post by Eurisko2012


aww kiss kiss and TYVM!

But I am really loving the conversation taking place here....

I am fully behind separating the issues, and many people just take the term 'global warming' to literally MEAN pollution, and it is not, it means a temperature change.

The pollution problem from emissions in the air the cigarette butts on the ground is ALL a terrible mess to our home that shows no respect at all.
I do not litter, but I do drive a combustion engine vehicle.... and when I think about the mass floating in the pacific ocean I cry.

reply to post by theRiverGoddess


We can clean up the Pacific Ocean quickly and easily in the year 2015.
Stop crying. That's an easy one.


BTW, Jesse Ventura is on your side. Click on the Youtube
link to watch all 6 segments. --It's a HOAX--


[edit on 19-1-2010 by Eurisko2012]

[edit on 19-1-2010 by Eurisko2012]