Middle East on fire

There are unconfirmed warfare in Suez. Soldiers are reported to be firing live ammo into crowds, and killing protesters. Twitter is hardly a credible source, and very difficult to corroborate. That fact acknowledged, the multiple reports suggest that there could be some truth.

LebaneseVoices? RT @habibh: What's happening in #Suez? No internet, no press coverage, some report massacres are taking place! Anyone? #Jan25Twitter - seconds ago

JillyCL RT @MGhazala: @Nails_McFugger: Seems RIGHT NOW army have locked down #suez and are firing live rounds - internet cut off- people dying #egypt #jan25

dubaijazz RT @adamakary: Christ all mighty, another FOUR rubber coated steal bullets found in our cameraman's stomach, total now brought to 11 #jan25 @Dima_Khatib

Malti_Sharma? RT @mumke: Casualties in Suez from Egyptian police fire on rioters. Army on standby DEBKAfile, #jan25 #egyptDEBKAfile, Political Analysis, Espionage, Terrorism, Security? - debka.comTwitter - seconds ago

reply to post by stephinrazin


Nice.
Stay on this; if everything's cut off, Twitter could be the only source, period, for a while. Was pretty reliable during Iran.

I just hope they're not trading one dictator for another..

And what's with everyone blaming America for what's going on? Who could have foreseen any of this?

Question is- What can (or could have) America do to end any of the dictatorships in the Arab world? End funding? Fine so now you've made an enemy out of Egypt, how does that solve the problem?

Or maybe you'd rather have them invade all Arab nations and topple their dictatorship? Yeah, like that works for the anti American crowd..

Show me one Arab/Muslim nation that has a true democracy, no fraud, no fighting in the streets, just a normal democracy.. The West Bank maybe? If you ignore their fight with Hamas in Gaza... Lebanon used to be the only one, but that didn't turn out well, who else? Iran? Fraud, Egypt? Fraud...

The mess that the British and French have made in the middle east 100 years ago has slowly turned into a keg of gunpowder, and a match was lit in Tunisia a few days ago.

Is there a danger of the Suez canal being over-run? Who protects that? Or are we talking about two different locations because the reports from Suez seem dire.

ladyb84 B
by seifito
RT @TheBoghdady: Reporters are not allowed to enter Suez..GUYS, SUEZ IS ON FIRE!!! Draw attention 2 them! #Jan25 Cc @BreakingNewsX @BBCWorld

Seems like web counter insurgencys are taking place also.

TheBoghdady TheBoghdady
by mosaaberizing
The Presidency website has been taking hits and it's finally down. presidency.gov.eg... #Jan25 #25Jan #Cairo

Originally posted by Eliad
And what's with everyone blaming America for what's going on? Who could have foreseen any of this?

Question is- What can (or could have) America do to end any of the dictatorships in the Arab world? End funding? Fine so now you've made an enemy out of Egypt, how does that solve the problem?

Or maybe you'd rather have them invade all Arab nations and topple their dictatorship? Yeah, like that works for the anti American crowd..

Show me one Arab/Muslim nation that has a true democracy, no fraud, no fighting in the streets, just a normal democracy.. The West Bank maybe? If you ignore their fight with Hamas in Gaza... Lebanon used to be the only one, but that didn't turn out well, who else? Iran? Fraud, Egypt? Fraud...

The mess that the British and French have made in the middle east 100 years ago has slowly turned into a keg of gunpowder, and a match was lit in Tunisia a few days ago.

Really? American funding has allowed the dictatorship to exist, and the tools with which to oppress the people of Egypt. If we stopped military funding to Egypt the majority of people would be ecstatic. How would that make an enemy of Egypt?

The reason there are no Arab democracies is because when they do occur the US, or another Western power overthrows it. Since 1953 the US has prevented any political development in the Middle East. Only dictators, monarchies, and theocratic tyrants have been allowed to exist.

I will agree that French and Britain did make a mess of the Middle East, but to ignore the lead role the US has had since is nothing short than flabbergasting.

Mohamed El Baradei: The Return of the Challenger

Blog following Egyptian Revolution

NYT Egypt Crack Down on Protesters

Egypt Night Falls after a Day of Rage

Egyptian Police Use American Tear Gas



Casualties in Suez/ Army on Standby

Crazy development...

A CNN reported live from Cairo just reported that demonstrators are burning down police stations and government party headquarters at the moment.

Oh yeah baby!

The Defense Department is "monitoring closely" events in Tunisia, Egypt and Lebanon "as they evolve," Pentagon Press Secretary Geoff Morrell said during a regular briefing.

The dangerous bit of the article :

Morrell said the United States has no military-to-military relationship with Tunisia, but has a long-standing military-to-military relationship with Egypt and an evolving military-to-military relationship with Lebanon.

The US really doesn't have much to lose in Tunisia... but in Egypt and Lebanon... yes.

From someone who was there yesterday..

Non football-related moving assemblies are not tolerated in Egypt. As the numbers increased and reports of other marches in Mohandiseen and Shubra came in I wondered if we had all inadvertently entered some 5th dimension. In Galaa Street I stood less than 100 meters away from a mosque where one cold Friday morning in 2009 during the Gaza war I watched plain-clothed policemen descend on men emerging from prayer even before they had the time to put their shoes on, and beat some of them senseless.

How nice.

From an Egyptian commentator :

I am completely focused on what is happening in the Arab world, and my head is spinning! The main event right now is Egypt. If the Egyptian government falls, it will rock all of Islam and the world. The Hamas-types have been waiting for this. I expect lots of bloodshed, but in the end the Egyptian Brotherhood will come to power. This group started in 1925, and is the father of all Sunni terror groups. It is just like Hamas. There is no doubt the Brotherhood is coming to power.

a few tweet from the last couple of hours....

On Egypt's second day of protests, Cairo in a state of chaos

Cairo residents in Egypt remove passwords from their wi-fi routers so protesters can communicate with the world http://(link tracking not allowed)/g9xOdl

http://(link tracking not allowed)/g9xOdl

No doubts about it anymore, AlJazeera is deliberately downplaying #Jan25, presenter silenced Suez caller as he was appealing to world on air

This is NOT the Muslim Brotherhood. This IS an #Egypt REVOLUTION by Egyptians from all walks of life

Aljazeera: Arrested protesters are being detained in secret camps and denied access to lawyers

reports that all phone lines cut off in Suez, army moving in

the burning building is 'Al-Arbeen' Police Station.....

reply to post by stephinrazin


Are you seriously arguing that the money America sent Egypt over the years is what kept this dictatorship alive? This dictatorship existed well before the U.S ever arrived on the scene, and it would have lasted, American money or not.

What would have happened had the U.S not stepped in after the soviets fell? Egypt would have probably found itself another sugar daddy, probably in the form of an Islamic alliance of some sort, and the dictatorship? It would still be there, just as it is in every Arab nation, pro and anti west, it would have probably been a worse dictatorship at that...

The U.S is no angel, but it's definitely not the devil in this case, sure, it's got a few horses in this race, but for good reasons.

Name five completely democratic governments that the U.S toppled in the middle east, and left a dictatorship instead, I'm curious now.

I found this tweet particularly touching. This puts a face on the costs of revolution,freedom is never free.

nzoha Nusrat Zoha
if I died don't cryI would die so my country can liveb happy mother &b proud of me, & remember me on the day of victory.. msg 2mom #Egypt

Those cheering for this are idiots. They are not going to get a democracy or any sort of freedom what so ever. They are going to get a radicalized government that is run by Islamists who are going to further oppress the people of Egypt. You don't have to be a brain surgeon to understand how muslim societies work. They are going to replace one moderate dictator with and Islamist dictator.

reply to post by Eliad


I say again really? There is ample evidence of Mubarak rule being directly reliant on 1.5 billion to 2 billion in aid a year. This is common knowledge. Do you really think the US has not been involved all along?
Iraq(63,72 not 03-now), Iran, Libya, and in recent years not telling who all were removed. I am not arguing that completely democratic were forced out, but were never allowed to develop.
Anyway this is neither here nor there. Egypt is finally ridding itself of a tyranny, and we will see how the Middle east reacts. Hopefully Isreal and US do not use covert means to oust whatever may replace Mubarak.

Originally posted by nickoli
I found this tweet particularly touching. This puts a face on the costs of revolution,freedom is never free.

nzoha Nusrat Zoha
if I died don't cryI would die so my country can liveb happy mother &b proud of me, & remember me on the day of victory.. msg 2mom #Egypt

That's actually an old saying from the revolutions and revolts during the mid-twentieth century in Egypt. Just check out my signature.

Originally posted by Vitchilo
Crazy development...

From an Egyptian commentator :

I am completely focused on what is happening in the Arab world, and my head is spinning! The main event right now is Egypt. If the Egyptian government falls, it will rock all of Islam and the world. The Hamas-types have been waiting for this. I expect lots of bloodshed, but in the end the Egyptian Brotherhood will come to power. This group started in 1925, and is the father of all Sunni terror groups. It is just like Hamas. There is no doubt the Brotherhood is coming to power.

While the populace has been frustrated with the Mubarak government, the Muslim Brotherhood coming to power is not going to be any better for the people, I fear, IMO....

If I were the US president right now, or any president in the western world for that matter, I would send weapons to the good Egyptian people so that they overthrow that scumbag Mubarak... and that GOOD PEOPLE end up in power... not those scumbags Muslim Brotherhood bunch.

Or you know... a well placed missile on Mubarak's head... with a drone... then deny any involvement...

Since a revolution is for sure in Egypt right now, better help the good people take power, otherwise the crazy people will take power and it'll be worse.

reply to post by Misoir


Ah,I wondered about that after I checked out the tweeter on that message and found out they were in Chicago and an Islamic teacher there. I'm new to the twitter thing but I see its like everything else,trust but verify,thank you.

reply to post by Vitchilo


Good point Vitchillo,would be better to be on the right side of history. I have learned though that our actual foriegn policy and what we're taught in school are two vastly different things.

This is a very interesting development in Egypt and I wonder,they must be pretty secure in their belief the revolution will fail. After all its strategically very important with the Suez Canal and arent they a nuclear power also?

I believe if our government thought the canal or the nukes were at risk Marines would already be there,I find this very interesting.

reply to post by stephinrazin

This is common knowledge

Loving those weasel words!
Explain to me please how you see Egypt without America's money. How would not receiving American aid have led to a democracy?

They'd have the same dictatorship, only less rich, is all. Don't be naive..
Am I missing something? Show me a specific incident where American money kept Mubarak from being replaced by a democracy.

Iraq(63,72 not 03-now), Iran, Libya, and in recent years not telling who all were removed.

Way to romanticize the past! Develop where? Dictatorships don't evolve!
Iraq of 63' was worse than a dictatorship, it was some form of autocracy, and I'm not sure what you're referring to in 72', but it definitely wasn't a democracy at the time...
Iran got screwed pretty bad by the U.S, I'll give you that.
Libya was also the replacement of one dictator with another.

The U.S has toppled more dictatorships and reinstated democracies than it has the other way around (although all attempts have proven to be utter failures).

So no, the reason there aren't any Arab democracies is *definitely* not the U.S.

Look, I'm not saying the U.S is the savior of the world, bringer of good, creator of warm and fuzzy feelings, I'm just saying take off your narrative goggles for a second- Egypt is where it is because Mubarak is a tyrant, nothing would have changed that, period.

Next is probably JORDAN... and Abbas. I think Saudi Arabia will survive this current turmoil. I mean, if the western world loses Abbas and Mubarak... they cannot lose Saudi Arabia... at all costs. And even if the western world hinted at losing Saudi Arabia, CHINA will not accept it.

China doesn't send troops anywhere, but they do send financing and arms.

Mubarak's Son Flees Egypt, Police Fallback from Suez

As protests continue to spread in Egypt reports now emerge that President Mubarak's son, Gamal Mubarack, has fled Egypt with his family to London, this on the heels or rumors that police in the city of Suez have pullback from the city under heavy pressure.

Good!

Earlier, officials said protests and marches will no longer be tolerated following demonstrations calling for an end to President Hosni Mubarak's 30-year rule. The Interior Ministry said activists risked being arrested if they took part in demonstrations.

Freaking dictators.

reply to post by Vitchilo


As if the Threat of beeing arrested would work Idiots. Are they gonna throw thousands or hundred-thousands in Jail? How stupid are they?