Middle East on fire

Iran urges US to drop 'cowboy logic' over nuclear issue


From the link:

Iran urges US to drop 'cowboy logic' over nuclear issue

Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad has said the US must stop using "cowboy logic" if it wants dialogue with Iran over its nuclear programme.

He said he was for negotiations, but that imposing sanctions would not make his country change course.

Following on from recent UN sanctions, Washington has imposed its toughest ever measures on Tehran for refusing to halt its uranium enrichment programme.

The US and major European powers say Iran is trying to build nuclear arms.

Iran says its nuclear programme is peaceful.

"We are for negotiations, but to do so you have to sit down like a good boy," Mr Ahmadinejad said, referring to the US in a speech broadcast live on state television.

"They adopt a resolution to force a dialogue, but this cowboy logic has no place in Iran."

Mr Ahmadinejad added that the US's real concern was not that Iran may make a bomb, but its rise as a regional power.

Ahmadinejad's assertion that the US administration's real concern was Iran being a regional power hit the nail on the head.

As was asking the US administration to sit down to negotiations like "a good boy."

Classic.


Mass funerals for victims of Iran mosque bombings


From the link:

Mass funerals for victims of Iran mosque bombings


Thousands of mourners have thronged the streets of the south-eastern Iranian city of Zahedan as mass funerals were held for victims of the devastating bombings of a mosque.

Police said they had arrested 40 people in connection with Thursday's blasts, which killed at least 27 people.

Those detained were not accused of direct responsibility for the attacks.

Hundreds of worshippers were injured when two suicide bombers blew themselves up at a Shia mosque.

The first bomber blew himself up at a checkpoint outside the Jamia mosque in Zahedan, with a more deadly second blast moments later.

'Horrific attack'

A Sunni rebel group, Jundullah, has said it carried out the attacks in revenge for the hanging of its leader by Iranian authorities.

General Ahmad Reza Radan, Iran's deputy police chief, told the Iranian Fars news agency on Saturday that the suspects "intended to create insecurity in Zahedan after the bombing".

He spoke as thousands of people turned out in Zahedan for the funerals, chanting "death to terrorists" and "down with the US", according to footage shown on state TV.

Iran blamed foreign countries, particularly the US, for the bombing, which came as worshippers celebrated the anniversary of the birth of Imam Hussein, grandson of the Prophet Muhammad.

A senior Revolutionary Guards commander was quoted as saying the US would face "fallout" from the deadly attack.

"Jundullah has been supported by America for its terrorist acts in the past," Massoud Jazayeri, deputy head of the dominant ideological wing of Iran's armed forces, was quoted as saying by Reuters news agency. "America will have to await the fallout of such criminal and savage measures."

The BBC's Tehran correspondent Jon Leyne says Iran's deputy interior minister described those who carried out the latest attack as mercenaries of what Iran calls the "Global Arrogance".

But US Secretary of State Hillary Clinton condemned the "horrific attack" and called for the perpetrators to be held accountable.

So Iran warns the US of "fallout" for being being believed to support Jundullah's terrorist attack....looks like Iran may well be declaring it's own war of terror and on what it believes to be the sponsors of terror that have slain Iranian lives.

Can you blame Iranians at these funerals for chanting "Down with the US" at the funerals of those they believe murdered at the hands of the US administration? No, I belive we can not.


Be careful Iran...Israel particularly would like nothing more than for Iran to retaliate and be seen as the attacker. Don't fall into the trap.

More on Turkey's FM meeting Hamas leader....

Turkey foreign minister meets with Hamas leader




[edit on 21-7-2010 by Regensturm]

Israel UN envoy: Lebanon flotilla bound for Gaza seeks to inflame Mideast (Reuters)

Yeah and Israel's provocations in Lebanon are not? PLEASE.

Irked by flotilla raid, Turkish hackers launch cyberwar on Israel (Haaretz)

No big deal, the IDF have a cyber branch too pushing Israel propaganda on western websites.

Report: Nuclear scientist who returned to Iran provided information on CIA (AP)

Probably not much info...

Merkel: Iran not working seriously with IAEA (Reuters)

In other news, Israel is not working AT ALL with IAEA.

Brazil to transfer $14 million in aid to Gaza Strip (Ch. 10)

Maybe they'll be able to eat or live in something else than tents.

EU's Ashton meets Iran FM on sidelines of Kabul conference, U.S. official says (Reuters)

Good more diplomacy.

Michael Oren: A Palestinian state will have to recognize Israel as a Jewish state (Haaretz)

What about Israel recognizing Hamas being the elected party by Palestinians? Or Hezbollah being elected by Lebanon?

British Justice Minister seeks amendment to prevent prosecution of Israeli officials (Ch.10)

Yeah if you ``forgot`` about your own leaders war crimes, why prosecute the Israelis officials for their war crimes?

Nasrallah: Hezbollah does not intend to initiate any war in the region (Haaretz)

Good.

Haaretz: Hariri Needs Hizbullah for Survival which he Considers More Important than Family Honor
Hariri knows that Hizbullah is a strong political force in Lebanon, he's no fool.

Bustani Visited Damascus to Set Stage for Assad's Trip to Beirut Within Days
So Assad to Beirut soon eh...

Hariri Rules Out Israeli War, Says Decision to Open New Page with Syria 'Irreversible'
Good.

Larijani: Israel Very Afraid of Hizbullah
Yeah somehow I doubt that.

Lebanese Army Chief of Staff Maj. Gen. Shawqi al-Masri said Israeli threats "make us more determined to hold onto land."
So now the Lebanese army will actually defend Lebanese territory? Because in 2006, they did nothing and the country critical infrastructure was annihilated.

Peres Slams 'Anti-Israeli Majority' in U.N.
So war criminal and nuclear proliferator Peres wonders why the UN ``don't like Israel`` uh? I bet Ceausescu asked himself the same question when he was killed by his people.

Lebanon to file complaint with UN against Israel over spy rings
Good luck getting any results.

Iran Reportedly Upset by Lebanon-Syria Rapprochement'
Yeah BS.

Hizbullah to Celebrate 'War Victory' July 30
War victory...

Iran to shun euro, dollar in oil deals
Some says it was a big reason why Iraq was invaded...

'West will regret troubling Iran ships'

Under the new sanctions regime, countries have the authority to inspect cargo ships, heading to or from Iran, in their own territorial waters.

That spells troubles... Castro believes that as soon as Iran's ships are inspected, Iran will attack US ships and nuclear war will ensue.

Brazilian foreign minister's upcoming Middle East tour, will take him to Ankara, where Iran's nuclear program will be top on the agenda during his talks.

'Iran's response to Vienna Group ready'

'No slot for nukes in Iran policy'

The Palestinian Authority has warned that Israel's infringement of Palestinian rights will fuel violence, calling on the UN to hold Tel Aviv accountable for its acts.
Gee you think?

Israel deploys navy to stop aid ships

The Israeli navy has deployed ships at sea to stop the Lebanese vessels and commandos from the navy's Flotilla 13 — known as the Shayetet — are put on standby so that in case it becomes necessary they would board the ships to prevent them from sailing into the Gaza Strip, The Jerusalem Post reported on Friday.

So possible confrontation this week-end over this.

Five Israeli spies flee Lebanon: Report

Iranian oil minister in visit to Turkey
More deals to avoid the sanctions.

A former Israeli lecturer has said the entity depends on wars for its existence, warning that the hostility only invites disaster for Tel Aviv.
Yep.

The Islamic Hamas movement has blamed US and Israel for the ongoing impasse between the Palestinian resistance movement and rival Fatah party.
Well yeah. The Fatah are a bunch of corrupt puppets and Hamas is independent and don't want to be a US-Israel puppet.

4 Iranian MPs to visit Gaza next week
Possible trouble there.

Important dates...
August 9 : US congress recess
August 10 : NO MOON in the middle-east
August 11 : Ramadan starts

Those 3 days... dangerous ones.

Originally posted by Vitchilo

Important dates...
August 9 : US congress recess
August 10 : NO MOON in the middle-east
August 11 : Ramadan starts

Those 3 days... dangerous ones.

Indeed. As I said in an earlier post, summers are a dangerous time diplomatically in the world because of national holidays and etc, when diplomats and governments are not at their posts. I also previously said the general feeling in the region is that war is more likely than ever.

Some more dates to add:

UK Houses of Parliament Summer Recess : July 27 - September 6

UK Houses of Parliament Conference Recess : September 16 - October 11


August could be an interesting month. By interesting I mean potentially catastrophic.


As for Iran being reportedly upset at Syria and Lebanon's improved ties, I think there's a slight psyops game going on there filtered to the media. In fact, Iran would be quite pleased with Syria and Lebanon's relations.

While Hariri has been opposed to Hezbollah in the past, even he realises now that Hezbollah is the only defence Lebanon realistically has.

I can't see Iran being upset unless Hariri made a move against Hezbollah, in fact they would be satisfied that Hariri appears to recognise the Israeli threat and is finding previously unthought of allies in Syria, and subsequently Iran.

While Syria and Iran have had small rivalries over Lebanon in the past, the current situation leaves no room for such petty squabbles.

Not if they have any sense, anyway.







[edit on 23-7-2010 by Regensturm]

Iran officials: U.S., Israel wouldn't dare attempt a military strike
Mmmm yes they would dare. They are insane and they think they are kings of the world...kinda like you.

Barak: Israel Would Strike Any Lebanese State Target During Next War
Of course they would.

Turkey Steps in to Limit Tension as Arab Leaders Gear up for Lebanon Visit
If it can calm things...

Murr Discusses with U.S. Defense Official Military Assistance to Lebanon
If the US could give the Lebanese army some air defenses..

Ashkenazi about Lebanon Aid Ships: We'll Know How to Stop Them

Mubarak, Saudi King to Discuss Lebanon on Wednesday
Maybe what to do if Israel attacks them again?

Army Opens Anti-Aircraft Fire on Israeli Jet

Canada imposes anti-Iran sanctions
Oh boy.

'US psywar plan includes 2 hot wars'
Probably war against Lebanon and Syria. Many believe that a destruction of at least Hezbollah before a war against Iran can be waged ``safely``.

Iran to hold weeklong aerial drills

'Israel, Saudis in talks over Iran attack'
Probably true.

US to fund Israel's Arrow 3 missiles
More money for Israel yay!

Chavez threatens to cut oil sales to US
Over Colombia...but in 2006, they said they would do that if the US attacked Iran. I wonder if this threat stands.

Attack on Iran likely: Ex-CIA chief

Iran ups ballistic missile capability
Sure you are. Your missiles are better than the North Koreans ones...but not much.

EU to hit Iran with 'toughest ever' sanctions, diplomats say (DPA)

I'm sure they are afraid... NOT.

Obama discusses Mideast peace with Jordan's King Abdullah (DPA)

So I guess the meeting lasted 5 minutes?

Iran's nuclear agency studies building nuclear fusion reactor (AP)

Hopefully they make discoveries there and help the world.

Palestinian authorities to newspaper: Abbas giving up on 2 state solution (Army Radio)

So Israel's puppet has given up?

Iran won't trade with countries imposing sanctions (Reuters)

No trade with China or Russia? You say that but in fact, your actions show otherwise.

Former top Iran army officer: Iran would easily repel any U.S. strike (AP)

If by repelling US strikes you mean getting bomb to hell then yeah.

Head of Lebanese ship to Gaza: We aren't waiting for Barak's permission to sail (Ch.10)

What are you waiting for then?

Lebanon denies reports of new aid ship bound for Gaza (Haaretz)

What is it? Ship or not?

Ashkelon mayor: The need to employ the Iron Dome defense system is urgent (Ch.10)

Won't be really ready for another year.

Turkmenistan: We will support Iran in the int'l arena (Ch. 10)

Gee Turkmenistan support, I guess Iran is safe now!

Turkey, Iran sign deal for cross-border gas pipline (Israel Radio)

Pissing off Israel and the US.

Saudi king set for tour of Middle East, with stop in tense Lebanon (DPA)

Hopefully can calm tensions.

Ahmadinejad: Iran would react at once if one of its vessels were to be inspected (Israel Radio)

And by react...does he means sinking a US boat in the strait of Hormutz, inspecting a US ship, stopping oil tankers or just screaming like a little girl?

China FM: Nuclear talks with Iran should resume as soon as possible (AP)

China for diplomacy not war.

Mossad chief reportedly visited Saudi Arabia for talks on Iran (Haaretz)

And by talks they mean will Saudi Arabia allow Israeli flights to pass over their territory to bomb Iran...

Barak heads to U.S. for talks with senior American officials (Haaretz)

Another council of war...

Jordan and South Korea ink $70 million nuclear loan (AP)

Of course nobody in the western MSM cares about the Jordanian soon-to-be nuclear reactor...

Livni: Ending Gaza blockade tells extremists Israel only responds to force (Haaretz)

So let's continue it or end it by diplomacy?

Lebanon sends additional 1,500 soldiers to its border with Israel (Israel Radio)

They smell something...even if 1500 soldiers is not much.

MK Nafa: Druze delegation to Syria, Lebanon detained at Jordanian border (Haaretz)

So much freedom in Israel.

British PM David Cameron to voice support for Turkey joining the EU (Reuters)

Good move by Cameron there.

Russia says Iran's criticism of Moscow's support for UN sanctions "unacceptable"

Iran says it has 100 vessels to confront each US warship
What a joke.

House OK’s possible Israeli raid on Iran
Ah neo-cons... treasonous neo-cons.

'US, Israel officials hold talks on Iran'

Israel plans coup in emirate, report says

Larijani: Iran proud of backing Hezbollah
Well they are the only ones able to defend Lebanon... except for air defenses..

The Lebanese Army says two Israeli surveillance aircraft have violated the country's airspace, with one of them staying around for about 11 hours.
And UNIFIL nor the Lebanese army did nothing... FOR 11 hours... GREAT JOB THERE. Yeah Lebanon is so much a threat they can't take out a drone for 11 hours.

Iran warns against jeopardies in PG
Of course Iran would close the Strait of Hormuz.

US envoys to set off for anti-Iran tour
More sanctions and possibly war...

China investment in Iran worries US
Yeah because it makes the sanctions not effective and bombing Iran would be dangerous since they could bomb chinese investment... and China wouldn't like that... AT ALL.

Most Pakistanis view US as enemy
Well duh. Thanks to the US-Saudi funded thousands of madrassas in Pakistan teaching muslim extremism to the young generations since the early 70s. But of course this is NOWHERE in the news. And almost nobody knows about this...

Iran arrests nine over Zahedan attack
Genuine arrests or ?

Egypt will issue Iran MPs visas for Gaza
Israel won't be happy about this.

Hezbollah warns against 'false charges'
Who knows who REALLy killed Hariri... My mother knows one of the cousin of Hariri... she doesn't know much about Lebanese politics...but I guess she would believe that Hezbollah did it...I would say either Hezbollah or Israel.

MP: Iran to supply N-fuel by Sept.
So it's still on track for September.

Iran cmdr. guarantees US shame in ME
If by shame you mean more casualties than they expected, then I agree.

Iran to export gasoline in four years‎
How cute, they think they gonna still be a sovereign nation by then!

'US funds sedition leaders to topple Iran'‎
No big surprise there, THEY ADMIT IT.

Iran, Iraq commence new gas talks
Iran could help Iraq for real with that...

British PM: Pakistan exports terror
Well yeah. Funded by the US.

Russia critical of new EU sanctions against Iran
It's funny they said nothing about US or Canadian unilateral sanctions against Iran...

UK: Israel acts completely unacceptable
Balls in the UK?

'Brazil, Turkey may join Iran N-talks'
Might calm things down.

Abdullah and Assad arrive in Beirut after half an hour aboard a single plane.

War council have started? Let's hope they talk how to calm tensions and not start a war.

U.S. Assistant Secretary of Defense Reaffirms Commitment to Help Lebanon Counter Extremism
And by extremism, they mean Hezbollah, the only ones that can defend Lebanon from Israel.

All the following links are from Haaretz news ticker.

Iran expects U.S. to attack 'at least two' Mideast countries in next three months (Reuters)

Meaning Syria and Lebanon...or Lebanon and Iran...so Obama can win an election is Ahmadinejad thinking IMO. After all, the ``october surprise`` exists.

President Shimon Peres to visit Egypt on Sunday at Mubarak's request (Haaretz)

Why did he request him...

ADL audit: 1,211 anti-Semitic attacks across U.S. in 2009 (Haaretz)

The ADL, making sure that Israelis are paranoids and scared of the outside world... so they continue their extremism and support their scummy government. I suggest you all watch the documentary Hashmatsa, done by an Israeli.

Obama: Nothing new in leaked Afghanistan documents (AP)

But everywhere he screams how it's bad and how it's a breach of national security and how it's against the war... and how internet must be monitored... and blogs restricted...

Egypt: We foiled the smuggling of a ton and a half of cement to Gaza (Army Radio)

Egypt, participating in Israeli warcrimes since they are a puppet. CEMENT is still banned in Gaza but still the news in the west say how the blockade is almost no longer there...

Iran: Agree to nuclear fuel swap and we will stop enriching uranium to 20 percent (Reuters)

Of course the western MSM will say how Iran is lying. Or they are not saying this for real... ect...

Barak to meet with U.S. national security adviser in Washington on Wednesday (Ch. 10)

Council of war.

In Cairo, U.S. attorney general calls for free, fair Egyptian elections (Reuters)

OK this is just FUNNY. First, the Egyptian government is a US PUPPET and a DICTATORSHIP. The US attorney to be calling for this is just a freaking joke. Yeah the egyptians can vote... for who is allowed to run...by the government.

U.S. prepared to follow up on Iran fuel swap deal (Reuters)

Yeah somehow I think this is utter BS.

Home Front Command to conduct drill in Dimona on Thursday (Ch. 10)

Fearing for your nukes in the next war?

B’nai B’rith International criticizes British PM's Gaza comments (Haaretz)

Bnai Brith, another bunch of scum like the ADL. Living on hate.

U.S.: We are open to revive talks on a nuclear swap deal with Iran (DPA)

Sure you are. Sure.

Australia to impose new sanctions against Iran (AP)

Jerusalem sources say Israel near deal with U.S. over purchase of F-35 (Israel Radio)

Funded by US taxpayers. The F-35 is gonna end up costing 150 million $/plane and Israel wants to pay a maximum of 100 million $ for each. Who do you think is gonna pay the difference?

Syria and Saudi Arabia know better than U.S. how to stabilize Mideast, Syria says (Reuters)

True dat.

U.S. push China, other Asian states to enact own sanctions against Iran (AP)

Yeah good luck with that.

Palestinian negotiator: Netanyahu must choose between settlements and peace (Haaretz)

It's gonna be settlements.

Minister Uzi Landau: Barak's proposed peace plan is 'irresponsible' (Israel Radio)

Ya think?

Syrian President Al-Assad and the Saudi King having talks is really a face-to-face of two competing influences on Lebanon.

Lebanese PM Hariri is very much Saudi supported, and supported by the US as well.

The Lebanese President Suleiman is very much Syrian supported.


The meeting probably has alot to do with the rumours of a UN tribunal looking into the murder of Rafik Hariri (Father of the PM) indicting members of Hezbollah for involvement in the killing.

Hariri (junior) has said that he would treat an arrest of the Hezbollah members not as indictive of Hezbollah as a group involved in his Dad's murder, but just members.

I do wonder whether Hariri, as I have been discussing in a previous post, has chosen his side as the US-Saudi side, perhaps to provoke Hezbollah into defending it's members from being arrested for a crime Hezbollah say they did not commit, and perhaps prompting Israel to try to pop up as a Knight In Shining Armour to "protect" Lebanon from Hezbollah. From there, as I have stated earlier, war could expand into Syria and Iran.

Hezbollah do not accept their members were involved in the murder, and I believe they, like Syria, were framed for the murder in order to fit the Israeli-Saudi-US agenda.

For example, Syrian troops were stationed in Lebanon as peacekeepers before the assassination, which when it occured, led to pressure on Syrian troops to pull out.

When they pulled out, Israel waged war on Lebanon. Coincidence?


In short, Hariri may well have been the sacrifice to fit the US-Israeli-Saudi agenda and to try to harm Syria, Hezbollah, and Iran.


Hariri jr it seems, may not realise this.


Reports of Israel sponsoring a planned attempted coup in an Emirate is not surprising.

The Great Game is afoot!





[edit on 31-7-2010 by Regensturm]

Great thread you guys have got here. Very informative to have updates on this tense situation.

I won't post links as that's your role but i'm noticing a pretty big escalation in violence in Gaza over the last few days. Lets hope it subsides.

*Edit*

Expect Israel to launch more air-strikes tonight after a Qassam blew out the top 2 floors of a college building only hours ago. No injuries.

Just a heads up.

[edit on 7/31/2010 by jonny2410]

All credit goes to Vitchillo. He has maintained this thread and updated it for a long time.

Read it from the beginning if you have the time. Interesting how events at the start of the year build up and link up with what is happening now.



Qassam = glorified firework.

Israel using modern warplanes and bombs in response?

Not proportionate.


Israel bombing Gaza at the moment may well be a practice run for scenarios we have discussed in the thread.

Keep an eye on the Israeli MO in their attacks in Gaza, might give a clue if they are planning to attack elsewhere.

[edit on 1-8-2010 by Regensturm]

reply to post by Regensturm

Qassam = glorified firework. Israel using modern warplanes and bombs in response?

Qassam has 6-10 kgs of explosives. It is more then whole 1940s RS-82 Katyusha rocket weight. As far as i know German army was pretty worried about those Katyusha's. Which were even less then glorified fireworks, according to you ,at least. Those cowards!!!!
And as for disparity - you expect that Israel would launch similar rockets that cannot be aimed at Gaza? Are you sure? Because it will save money for Israeli taxpayer. Those PRECISE weapons Israel uses cost a lot of money.
Oh, read about Qassam and Katyusha. Enjoy.
en.wikipedia.org...
en.wikipedia.org...

reply to post by ZeroKnowledge


Nice try.

Qassam rockets are unguided, crude, homemade and a botch-job, where their standard and payload varies dramatically. If they were as effective and dangerous as you claim, they would have killed more people.

As it is, they are about as much use as a firework, and as fireworks kill people, so will the Qassam.

The Katyusha Rocket was a weapon fielded by The Red Army which made the weapons en masse, and fired them en masse from hundreds of trucks, hence the Germans fearing them.

Comparing home-made unguided rusty rockets to what The Red Army used? Fail.

Using Qassam rockets as an excuse to flatten Gaza with modern and conventional warplanes, bombs, artillery, tanks, naval fire, cluster bombs and phosphorous and other guided munitions? Fail.

The Katyusha's warhead was 22kg (48lbs) as standard.

The Qassam rocket's bigggest warhead is 10 kg (22lbs) and that is if they are very lucky in acquiring that amount of explosive, when the usual is between 0.5kg (1.1lb) and 5-7kg (11-15kg).


Again, nice try.

[edit on 1-8-2010 by Regensturm]

reply to post by Regensturm


As you said - nice try.
RS-82 (Katyusha rocket) weight was 6.8 kgs. It had 0.6 kg of explosives. And German army did not like it for some reason. Why do you think Israeli civilians would like much larger and much more modern rockets with 5-10 kg of explosives falling on them?
So it is not fired in large salvo (usually, but it is different during war) - and Israel is not sending dozens of aircraft or uses dozen of artillery batteries.
It answers few unguided (as you stated) rockets with few guided ones. So again,do you prefer Israel to fire unguided missiles too? Just now "firework" with range of tens of kilometers was launched at Ashkelon and smaller Qassam damaged building in Israel. Where are your

flatten Gaza with modern and conventional warplanes, bombs, artillery, tanks, naval fire, cluster bombs and phosphorous and other guided munitions?

All i see is

Fail.

Picture of your pretty firework:
maggiesnotebook.blogspot.com...
By the way, how many people in Israel were killed by fireworks? And how many by Qassams?

[edit on 1-8-2010 by ZeroKnowledge]

Originally posted by ZeroKnowledge

As you said - nice try.
RS-82 (Katyusha rocket) weight was 6.8 kgs. It had 0.6 kg of explosives. And German army did not like it for some reason. Why do you think Israeli civilians would like much larger and much more modern rockets with 5-10 kg of explosives falling on them?

en.wikipedia.org...

From the link:

The 132-mm diameter M-13 rocket of the BM-13 system was 180 centimetres (70.9 in) long, 13.2 centimetres (5.2 in) in diameter and weighed 42 kilograms (92 lb). Initially, the caliber was 130 mm, but the caliber was changed (first the designation, and then the actual size), to avoid confusing them with regular artillery shells[3]. It was propelled by a solid nitrocellulose-based propellant of tubular shape, arranged in a steel-case rocket engine with a single central nozzle at the bottom end. The rocket was stabilised by cruciform fins of pressed sheet steel. The warhead, either fragmentation, high-explosive or shaped-charge, weighed around 22 kg (48 lb). The range of the rockets was about 5.4 kilometres (3.4 mi). Later, 82-mm diameter M-8 and 310-mm diameter M-31 rockets were also developed.

Your RS-82 rocket was unguided rockets fired by Soviet military aircraft, not a Katyusha rocket, but the M-8 and M-31 were derived from them. The M-8 was smaller calibre, the M-31 bigger.

The Qassam is not heaver nor carries a heavier payload than a Katyusha.

Perhaps if the Israeli government would actually be serious about peace, the Qassam would not be fired in response to the Israeli blockade and bombing of Gaza.

Originally posted by ZeroKnowledge
So it is not fired in large salvo (usually, but it is different during war) - and Israel is not sending dozens of aircraft or uses dozen of artillery batteries.

Israel launched air strikes on Gaza just the other night. Artillery was fired during the Gaza war. You can not deny this is happening.

Originally posted by ZeroKnowledge
It answers few unguided (as you stated) rockets with few guided ones. So again,do you prefer Israel to fire unguided missiles too? Just now "firework" with range of tens of kilometers was launched at Ashkelon and smaller Qassam damaged building in Israel.

Damaged building?

If we're playing let's post pictures of damaged buildings:



Link


From Gaza. Bombed with Israeli munitions more sophisticated, heavier and somewhat deadlier than Qassam rockets.

Originally posted by ZeroKnowledge
Picture of your pretty firework:
maggiesnotebook.blogspot.com...

Picture of pretty Israeli warplanes:


Link


Picture of pretty Israeli helicopter:



Link


Picture of pretty Israeli artillery:

Link


But that Qassam rocket is a match for those! Right?

Originally posted by ZeroKnowledge
By the way, how many people in Israel were killed by fireworks? And how many by Qassams?

If we're playing "compare the body count" how about we compare the number of Israeli people killed by Qassam rockets and fireworks combined, and compare them to the number of people killed in Gaza as a result of assorted Israeli weaponry?

Hmm?

Nice try.

[edit on 2-8-2010 by Regensturm]

But that Qassam rocket is a match for those! Right?

Qassam rocket is a reason for those as the opposite would be Israel launching unguided rockets into one of most heavily populated places on Earth.
Again - would you rather Israel ANSWERING unguided rocket strike with unguided rocket strike?
And most Qassam rockets are much heavier then RS-82 (Katyusha, not firework as much as you would not like it to admit).
M-8 was just a slightly modernized RS-82 that had 1.6 kg of explosives. As opposed to 5-10 kg Qassam now have.
Picture of most modern M-8 launcher:
data3.primeportal.net...
Compare size of its rockets to qassam ones in my earlier link.
A simple question - how Israel should answer rockets (in accumulated thousands) launched at its territory for a decade?
a) With flowers.
b) By allowing its own citizens in effected area to build their own qassams and fire back.
c) By using whatever means Israel has to prevent it.
d) By nuking Gaza.
e) By buying exactly the same Qassams from Gazans and firing those only.
f) Your own option.

Israel launched air strikes on Gaza just the other night. Artillery was fired during the Gaza war. You can not deny this is happening.

Air strike. As in single. As in response for a single rocket.
Artillery was used during Gaza WAR as a response to salvos of Qassam rockets.
War is a key word here. War is that thingy when people try to kill each other using those things called weapons. Is artillery not that thingy called weapon?


[edit on 2-8-2010 by ZeroKnowledge]

reply to post by Regensturm


Why would you think that there should be a proportional response to an attack??? You fire a rifle at my house I'm shooting back with a cannon. You fire a cannon at me and I'm dropping a nuke on your ass. Proportional responses perpetuate war. Overwhelming responses stop war.

Originally posted by ZeroKnowledge

Qassam rocket is a reason for those as the opposite would be Israel launching unguided rockets into one of most heavily populated places on Earth.

As it is, Israel are launching so-called guided rockets into the most heavily populated places on Earth and killing and maiming civillians.

Originally posted by ZeroKnowledge
Again - would you rather Israel ANSWERING unguided rocket strike with unguided rocket strike?

No, I would rather Israel be serious about peace talks.

Originally posted by ZeroKnowledge
And most Qassam rockets are much heavier then RS-82 (Katyusha, not firework as much as you would not like it to admit).
M-8 was just a slightly modernized RS-82 that had 1.6 kg of explosives. As opposed to 5-10 kg Qassam now have.
Picture of most modern M-8 launcher:
data3.primeportal.net...
Compare size of its rockets to qassam ones in my earlier link.

The M-8 was actually a Soviet rocket fired by aircraft, and only used a Katyusha rocket motor:

RS-82 rocket


From the link:

M-8 - improved RS-82 with a much larger warhead (0.64 kg (1.4 lb) of explosives) and rocket motor for BM-8 Katyusha

A 5-10 kg Qassam is not standard, but if they manage to acquire that amount of explosive. Qassams are not fielded and built to a standard.


Let's look at proper Katyusha Rockets.

en.wikipedia.org...

From the link

The warhead, either fragmentation, high-explosive or shaped-charge, weighed around 22 kg (48 lb).

The Katyusha is still heavier in warhead. The Qassam is still a glorified firework.

Originally posted by ZeroKnowledge
A simple question - how Israel should answer rockets (in accumulated thousands) launched at its territory for a decade?
a) With flowers.
b) By allowing its own citizens in effected area to build their own qassams and fire back.
c) By using whatever means Israel has to prevent it.
d) By nuking Gaza.
e) By buying exactly the same Qassams from Gazans and firing those only.
f) Your own option.

F) With peace talks, and being serious about peace talks.

I note only one of your "options" was not about resorting to violence.

Originally posted by whywhynot


Why would you think that there should be a proportional response to an attack??? You fire a rifle at my house I'm shooting back with a cannon. You fire a cannon at me and I'm dropping a nuke on your ass. Proportional responses perpetuate war. Overwhelming responses stop war.

Overwhelming responses do not always stop war. It encourages the other side to hit back harder. It sustains a cycle of violence.

If overwhelming response worked on Gaza, their would be no Qassams still being fired.

It also does not work because the killing and maiming of civillians makes their relatives wish for revenge, you would be the same if it happened to your loved ones.. Israel's bombing simply recruits more members to Hamas and other groups.

reply to post by Regensturm


Overwhelming response is the only thing that has stopped previous major wars throughout history. Gaza hasn't seen overwhelming response. The world would still be at war from WW1 and WW2 if the Allies had used proportional response. But it was WAR and it was over much quicker than Afghanistan, Iran, Vietnam, ect ect. And the enemies of the past are friends and trading partners.

Proportional response in a war is BS.

Originally posted by whywhynot


Overwhelming response is the only thing that has stopped previous major wars throughout history. Gaza hasn't seen overwhelming response.

Tell that to the people of Gaza.

Originally posted by whywhynot
The world would still be at war from WW1 and WW2 if the Allies had used proportional response.

WW1 and WW2 can not be equated to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict in that way.


The Allies and the opposing powers in both wars used similar equipment, and had similar forces.

Originally posted by whywhynot
But it was WAR and it was over much quicker than Afghanistan, Iran, Vietnam, ect ect. And the enemies of the past are friends and trading partners.

Vietnam, like Gaza, is a war of occupation, not of equal powers, and the responding insurgency. Those wars last very long and can spring back to life as long as the occupying power remains the occupier.

What's going on in Gaza is a conventional military taking on a insurgency, and like Vietnam, superior firepower does not work. It backfires, because more civillians are killed than militants.

Originally posted by whywhynot

Proportional response in a war is BS.

Out of proportional response is BS.

reply to post by Regensturm

As it is, Israel are launching so-called guided rockets into the most heavily populated places on Earth and killing and maiming civillians.

Would you rather Israel to shoot unguided munitions?
Your suggestion for Israel approach to peace is pretty funny since rockets started to fall on Israeli territory in thousands AFTER Israel withdrew from Gaza. So if Israel will withdraw from West bank and Hamas will be the leading force, logical conclusion will be that rockets from there would start to fall on Israel too.

The M-8 was actually a Soviet rocket fired by aircraft, and only used a Katyusha rocket motor:

I understand that you have to try and do everything to stick to "firework" definition , but m-8 in the picture is not for aircraft. Wheels kind of suggest it.
More pictures of m-8:
www.armchairgeneral.com...
This is BM-8 for m-8 rocket - which is slightly modernized rs-82 rocket which weight less (and has less powerful warhead) then Qassam 2/3.
Description of Qassam 2 from 2002:

But the Qassam-2 rockets -- bearing warheads containing 11 to 15 pounds (5 to 7 kilograms) of explosive material -- could be more difficult to trace.

edition.cnn.com...
Majority of rockets for years are qassam 2 or qassam 3 type.

A 5-10 kg Qassam is not standard, but if they manage to acquire that amount of explosive. Qassams are not fielded and built to a standard.

Indeed. Qassam with 5-10 kgs of explosives is standard. Rocket itself weights almost 30kgs. And only thing mass produced in Gaza with any standard are those rockets. Or you consider Palestinians incapable to cook an explosive in area they control? This is pretty racist.

With peace talks, and being serious about peace talks. I note only one of your "options" was not about resorting to violence.

I do not believe in answering rockets with peace talks. Israel allready withdrew from Gaza (without any blockade at the time) and result is clear to me. As long as Hamas attacks Israel there should be no talks with them. Fatah in West Bank does not use any rockets. And with them there are peace talks.


[edit on 2-8-2010 by ZeroKnowledge]

The # is hitting the fan right now in Lebanon.

3 lebanese soldiers killed.

1 israeili officer killed.

Israeli tank opens fire on Lebanese APC.. direct hit apparently.

Rocket fired from Lebanon.