$Two Thousand Dollars$ to spend on supplies -

Originally posted by Gazrok
Why does everyone say a Ruger 22?

Reason: They are cheap ($200), they are reliable, they come with 10 round magazines and you can get 30 round. Ammo is cheap ($15 for 1,000 rounds) so you can practice inexpensively.
You can stop and even kill humans with a .22. The bullets are small but they do create very bad wound channels. A direct hit to the head will kill or at least render someone unconscious. They can be shot very accurately up to about 75 yards. You can take small game with it and even deer with head shots.
In self-defense situations it;s not who has the bigger gun that wins, it;s who can put in the first accurate shot. You probably won't drop an opponent in his tracks with a .22 but you can certainly wound them badly enough they will pose no further danger to you.
Handguns are different in that the short barrel length does not allow for sufficient pressure to build up making the impact much lesser than the same round from a longer rifle barrel. That;s why I would choose something 9mm and up for a handgun, for stopping power.
The Ruger 10/22 is probably the worlds most popular survival rifle for many good reasons.

You mentioned a creek nearby, it sounds like you have room for some chickens. I have 16 and get 12 to 14 eggs a day --Feed is simple if crap hits the fan because you can use the grasses all around to feed them as well as maybe free range them. Mine right know are eating poultry mix and alfalfa, 3rd crop-----lots of fertilizer for garden. Also if you have a creek. then you can chicken wire across, go way up stream and herd whatever fish are in there down stream to the wire dam. Something else, get veggie seeds that are capable of producing their own seeds for the next crop, next year. SEEDS in a time like you are preparing for would be worth their weight in gold.-------good luck

Sorry I can't point you to a book, my knowledge on the herbal stuff is a hodgepodge of lessons from my great grandmother before she died. Good thing our family never stopped in Salem, they prolly would have burned them as witches for it. It looks pretty boil, bubble, toil and trouble in progress. lol.

Anyway for some good news, echinacea, goldenseal and meadowsweet is perennial in most of the country and pretty too. You want the roots off of the echinacea and goldenseal, tender leaves from the meadowsweet (new growth best). Careful when you get your starts of meadowsweet that you are getting the right plant it has small round heart shaped leaves and grows in a small bushy plant, but not with woody stems (best grown in damp dappled shade, also known as marsh mallow). Tuck some of these 3 plants into your front flowerbeds now and let it spread, no one will even notice.

Garlic is another must, but it is no good for concentrating. The good stuff is a result of a chemical reaction from wounding the bulb and is too unstable. You will want to plant that in Nov and harvest in June. Choose a hardneck variety as they contain more alliin which is what produces the allicin you are after once it is crushed or cut and are conveniently more winter hardy. If using garlic internally as antibiotic DO NOT HEAT, this destroys the allicin, crush or dice and consume within 10 minutes. If using as a poultice to guard against or treat external infection crush and pack directly on the wound. Replace poultice every two hours, allicin has broken down by then and is no longer useful. Also useful against fungal infection.

I agree with the dry food storage, even if SHTF in the spring you would need at least 8 weeks before you could harvest even the earliest of crops and 12-16 weeks for anything with appreciable protein or calories from seed. If it hit in fall or winter you would need much more time.

ETA: If using garlic as a poultice, the patient will taste it as it enters the body, that's how you know it is working. Stinky, but effective....I'll take a week's worth of garlic breath over death by strep throat any day.

[edit on 18-1-2010 by americanwoman]

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There are many reasons for choosing certain items.

The Takarov, in my opinion, is terrible because of the
range of ammunition that can be used. Yes, it's inexpensive,
but its inability of using nothing but ball-type ammo and
"backwards" safety puts it off my list. At the bottom,
and from what I've gathered on the web, is the Bersa:
lifetime warrenty (what's that worth), about $350, used
by South American police. It's only at the "bottom"
because of cost, not because of reliabilty.

Using wool as a parka is just dumb. Use the wool blankets
but at least get a plastic parka for to prevent water
infiltration. Wool will absorb water and get rather heavy
until the rain stops. Want to be soaked for several days?

I wear socks that are at least 50% wool year round and find
their wicking action gives me far more comfort than cotton
socks. That said, using wool blankets as a poncho strikes
me as untenable. Wool absorbs and then disipates moisture
when humidity drops. Kinda like a filter that passes high
moisture from low to high. But if humidity on the outside
doesn't drop you'll stay soaked. Not good.

I don't want to get into a war over what's best. It's true
that a lanoline wool blanket will repel water, that is until
it is washed in a detegent which will remove the lanoline.
I've worn wool garments for many years. I know what I'm
talking about. Wool is great, but you need to understand
its limitations.

As for 9mm firearms: Do your own research. There are many
firearms forums. Not a forum but mostly a review site that
I like: www.gunblast.com... All sorts of stuff by a
leftie.

Keep in mind that the .380, 9mm, and .357 are different by
about .001 inch. Also, any muzzle velocity over about
1100 fps is supersonic, ie, hearing damage range. For an
example setoff a firecracker in your living room and then
multiply it a few times.

All of the above is just my opinion and is not...well, if you
don't get it, screw your sensative parts, woosies.

OP, do yourself a favor and utilize 20% or $400 of that $2000 and purchase yourself some loose silver coins [junk silver]. Get them in increments of $.05, $.10, $.10 and $.50.

You can find these at market prices on eBay or even Craigslist, where possibly a person close to your area is selling them.

Also, check www.coinflation.com to obtain current market prices.

These junk silvers coins will help you puchase miscellaneous goods if need be.

I invested $2500 back in August/September on loose silver coins. Even if nothing happens during your lifetime, at least you'll have a small investment to pass down to the next person in your family.

Forget the electric if were looking at along term situation and you are in the sticks.
Try to put your self in what I like to call a little house on the prairie state of mind. Remember people lived just fine for hundreds of years on this continent with out all the stuff we’ve become accustomed to.
For light: get lanterns and stock up on fuel (can make more fuel from alcohol still down the road)
For heating: get a used wood burning stove and always have a few cords of wood stocked up, the more the better. Nothing like a good hot stove on a cold night.
For cooking: get a good cast iron Dutch oven or cook on the wood stove in poor weather.
For food: stock up on a years worth of food to get you through to the first harvest from your garden. Get a 12 gage Mossberg shotgun for small game a 30 06 or 7mm for large game and a compound bow with lots of arrows. Fishing rod and lots of hooks.
Garden: stock up on non hybrid seeds and lean how to harvest seeds for next season.
Clean water: a little bleach will kill bacteria just fine in the water from your stream unless you live on or near a toxic waste dump. But I would look into getting a hand pump for your well if its in the budget,
First aid: get the best and most you budget will allow. Don’t for get the antibiotics.
The only thing that may be a problem is live stock, chickens and cows don’t store well in your basement LOL. But you would be surprised to find that there are probably people in you area who have chickens etc. you may be able to trade for them later on. For now though stock up on lots of powdered eggs and milk.
If all this can’t be done for $2000.00 get what you can for now and get the rest over time.
Good luck

OK I'll chime in, eleven if you're still here, in regards to the OP:

$2,000 probably won't get you into the realm of "comfort" during SHTF, at least not long-term, depending on where you're at currently. Best to use that to get the basics covered, so if SHTF tomorrow you're not completely screwed, and you can add to your preps later as time & money permits.

First of all I would probably nix the idea of a generator, at least for the time being. It would be a "nice to have" but I think other items are more important first.

Water:
Another member posted the Katadyn Ceradyn filter -- great product. Also equally great is the Katadyn Pocket, slightly more expensive at around $200 but it is very portable in case you need to bug out. Still offers around 13,000 gallon capacity which, for 3 people, at a gallon a day, would last almost twelve years. It is a GREAT filter, I use mine regularly on camping trips, and have used it on some REALLY nasty water with great results.

Keep in mind during SHTF you don't know what is going on upstream. There could be all kinds of nasty stuff polluting that water. For that reason alone you need some water storage as well. Wal-mart has 7gallon containers for around 5 bucks each, fill them up with tap water, store them in a cool dark place and dump/refill them every few months. Some people recommend adding bleach to the water for longer storage, but as long as S hasn't HTF yet, I'm just refilling mine periodically.

Shelter:
It's freezing here right now -- so this is on the top of my mind -- do you have a fireplace or wood stove for warmth? If not, get a kerosene or propane-powered space heater and some fuel for it. Make sure you get ones that are safe for indoor use. Keep in mind some of the propane ones require batteries.

Food:
This is where I would probably spend the most money. Rice, flour, Mountain House meals, MRE's, canned goods. Don't forget canned meats like tuna, spam, chicken. Ramen "chicken flavor" noodles + 4oz can of chicken = chicken noodle soup

Since you have some acreage I would definitely work on getting some livestock. Another poster mentioned rabbits but I'd go for chickens if it were me. Easy to care for, if you let them free-range they practically feed themselves, and they produce food without having to kill them -- eggs. I built a coop for my ducks this summer for around $125 in raw materials, we used it for six ducks but could easily hold 10 chickens. Make sure you have a ratio of one rooster per 15 hens, and get at least a few "broody" breeds such as silkies or buff orpingtons. The hens of these breeds have a strong "motherly instinct" and they will almost surely once a year decide to sit on a clutch of eggs and hatch out some new baby chicks for you. Incubating your own eggs is not easily done without electricity, plus it's a PITA to care for the baby chicks. Let the mother hen do it for you, trust me it's alot easier. www.backyardchickens.com is a great resource for starting a flock.

Get some gardening equipment, seeds and learn to grow your own vegetables. Plant a few fruit trees. Buy a pressure canner and learn to can your own home-grown stuff.

Others:
If you are in a rural area, and have propane for heat, hopefully you have a propane stovetop as well, you can use that for cooking even if there's no power. Keep your propane tank topped off at all time, don't let it get too low.

If not, get a campstove of some sort and stock up on fuel for it. Personally I like the mul ti-fuel stoves, that work on "camp fuel" or regular unleaded gasoline.

If you decide to go with a generator later I recommend propane. Especially if you already have a large tank at your house already for heat/cooking. Propane will be easier to salvage than gasoline during SHTF from abandoned houses BBQ grills, etc.

After a long stressful day at work, it's nice to see a 4th page sprout up, thank you for anyone who has taken the time out to post. Lifechanging.
S000
Hello all, and let's start from the top...
I am taking into consideration all advice on the guns, keep the knowledge coming, we don’t have our mind made up yet. Leaning but undecided.
My wife has an extreme fear of all birds, but just confirmed the presence of a chicken coop in the back-back yard. It was the only thing holding it’s creation back. I’d like to couple that with rabbits….but not in the same pen, ha!
I am scheduling time to research those herbs american woman and we all love garlic. I can imagine eating garlic sweet potatoes for years.
Those are exactly what I would like, 12 gauge, good solar panels. Hopefully in whatever sitx awaits us, we still have the sun…

Quazee, why do you prefer silver over gold. We have stockpiled our own personal stash of gold jewelry, but I would like your insight on the silver.

Murfdog, I like idea of having a wood burning stove sitting around ready to use, I has extreme functionability for heating and cooking, we grew up with one and It would run you out of the house sweating.

Mortimer, thanks for reinforcing the belief of canning food. And as for the generator, if I’m stockpiling propane, then that style would be a good fit.

We are thinking about obtaining a large bundle vitamins as well. And while she and I sit here, the convesation of hiding this large ammount of preperation...attic or crawlspace?? The less those around know, the better. You hope for community, but end up with chaos.

"My wife has an extreme fear of all birds"

Start with cute, fluffy, day old chicks of a friendly calm breed (Brahma would be my recommendation)....if she is still scared of "your" flock when they are grown, she is incurable, lol.

ETA: Let her feed them everyday in the nice clean dishes you have just washed for her after you take care of the stinky poopy part.

[edit on 19-1-2010 by americanwoman]

gun is ok maybe, but all the rest spend on vodka (worst case whiskey etc), for fallowing reasons: it's natural antiseptic, anaesthetic, it burns, it can sit in your basement for ages and won't loose it's value, in proper packaging of course.
when food prices will go up, when antibiotics will become luxury alcohol will be worth more than a gold.
I tell ya

and the best part is, it won't go waste, in case there won't be any armageddon.

[edit on 19-1-2010 by Tim00]

Also, as far as a book I posted the title of one on the herbal remedies thread. It doesn't go into the detail of preperation you asked for and the illustrations are not very good, but it is a good handbook for the more complicated uses of herbs. IMHO if you are ever in need of that (high blood pressure, blood circulation etc) you are so screwed anyway it can't hurt to try, but I wouldn't guess on it without a diagnosis from a real doctor. It *could* save someone's life, but I would be using that info as a last resort. You can't forget that some of that stuff was written back when leaching was popular as a cure all and is full of as many folk TALES as folk REMEDIES. There is a big difference, also the terrible illustrations are useless for wild collection. Kind of like mushroom hunting, you want to be damn sure you know what you are getting before you concentrate something and consume it.

oh and there is another stuff that can potentially be priceless - SALT. in case all power lines goes down, all freezers and fridges with all the meat inside goes down, salt will be back in fashion. and as vodka, salt can be kept in your basement for a very long time, and again in case there is no armageddon, you can use it as usual.

and I think the third thing vital to your survival - friends. it's much easier to get friends with your local community before, than after. cuz after, there is no gun that could stop angry and hungry mob, no walls will be thick enough. especially if you have a basement full of goods.

electricity, and all other fancy technological stuff might get worthless too soon, one nuclear blast nearby, or in upper stratosphere and no more fancy generators, GPS and TV/radio sets. and to sit on some propane tank - is the last thing you want to do when bullet will be flying around.

so the list is quite short, and considerably cheap:
1. vodka (similar distilled alcohol)
2. salt
3. friends.

all 3 cost very little today, but might cost quite a fortune in the worst case scenario. and best part, all 3 won't loose their value in case there are no worst case.

[edit on 19-1-2010 by Tim00]

I almost forgot to add my 0.02 on personal defense . . .

I see alot of suggestions on here for buying a .22 rifle such a Ruger 10/22.

For the time being, I say get a shotgun. It is by far the most versatile weapon in your arsenal during SHTF. With the proper loads it's adequate for hunting everything from pigeons & rabbits to larger game such as deer, antelope, etc. Also very effective against threats of the 2-legged variety.

Yeah, you can kill deer, people, etc. with a .22LR with head shots. Try hitting a deer on the run (or a person for that matter) at 70 yards in the head with a .22 and let me know how that goes. Why make it harder on yourself? Get a firearm that can do the job without being a crack shot.

The Remington 870 and Mossberg 500 are both great choices and will both cost less than $300 new. Get one that is capable of firing at least 3" magnums, preferably with a screw-in choke. They can be bought in various configurations ranging from beautiful wood-furnished "bird guns" to tacti-cool with pistol grips. Longer barrels will give you a little more on effective range and are easier to aim due to the longer sight radius, for precise shots at flying birds and such. Shorter barrels are lighter, easier to move with and generally work better for home defense because they're easier to swing, and less awkward to get around with in tight quarters.

Spend another $100-$150 on ammo, heavy on birdshot sizes 4-7, and some buckshot and slugs as well. Use 3" magnums for the buckshot and rifled slugs. 2.75" shells are fine for the birdshot, anything more than that is just extra wear on your shoulder. Maybe a few boxes of 3" mags in #4-#5 shot for ducks & geese.

Use birdshot sizes #5-7 for smaller birds, rabbits, squirrels and the like. Birdshot #4-5 for larger birds such as ducks, geese, turkeys.

#00 Buckshot can be used for deer, antelope, coyotes, etc. out to 50-70 yards pretty effectively. Rifled slugs can be used for the same out to 100 yards or more.

POOF! You have a single firearm with multiple uses, effective at killing pretty much anything in North America out to 100 yards.

When money permits your next firearm purchase should probably be a handgun of some sort. You'll want something you can more easily carry with you everywhere. But that's a whole other discussion.

Next after that would probably be a .22LR rifle of some sort. Ruger 10/22 is a great choice. And buy a crapload of ammo for it (at $20 per 500rds why not?)

Just trying to get you in a place where you're well-rounded to start with, in case SHTF tomorrow, at least you've got your bases covered. IMO a man with a shotgun and assorted birdshot, buckshot, slugs is far better equipped than a guy whose only weapon is a .22LR, high-powered rifle or handgun.




[edit on 1/20/2010 by Mortimer452]

[edit on 1/20/2010 by Mortimer452]

Originally posted by eleven:eleven

Quazee, why do you prefer silver over gold. We have stockpiled our own personal stash of gold jewelry, but I would like your insight on the silver.

I can't speak for Quazee, but here's why I'm using silver as my primary money stockpile.

Percentage-wise silver has outperformed gold by nearly double in the last year. From Jan 2009 through Jan 2010, the 1oz silver spot price rose 40%, whereas gold has only risen 22%. The gap is closing, the gold/silver ratio has been on a downward trend (a good thing) for well over a year now.

Another reason is that silver comes in smaller denominations, making it more practical for bartering purposes. Post-SHTF I can't imagine myself carrying around a couple 1oz gold coins for trade. For one I doubt I'll be able to find someone to "make change" if all I need are a few cans of soup & some bread, another reason is I don't want people to get the impression I've got stockpiles of gold back at my bug-in location. Same reason why most people don't carry $1,000 bills in their wallets. A few silver coins worth $20 or so USD would be much more practical.

Lots of great things to consider....I have most of these and was just wondering about Iosat pills does anyone have these on hand and do you think it is a good idea ...or do we real want to be around if everything is nuked?

Also I live in Canada and it is hard to get antibiotics unless a Dr. prescribes them to you...I can get some kinds from the vets for farm use, but not sure what kind you could use on human...some are for only cows, or dogs or swine and so on.

cheers

Originally posted by eleven:eleven
Gregarious...
You said "guns unregistered, ammo, more ammo. Non numismatic silver ". May I ask why unregistered (i think i know) and what is no numismatic silver?
Thanks!

As you can now see on a new thread, they are beginning to demand you pay a 'tax' on all guns. So if you don't tell them, you are in violation of tax law and they can 'legally' throw you in prison if'n they ever manage to find out. If you tell them, they know where to collect your guns. Drive to Texas, get an unregistered gun and ammo for the day America has the revolution. Just waiting for a spark, the fuel is all over the ground already. George Washington, and all the other forefathers, considered guns to be necessary for the people to maintain their rights when Washington decides they are superior to us. Otherwise, same situation as the USSR, disarmed and impotent against tyranny. Even if it is from the Communist Democratic Party.
Non numismatic silver is only non collectors, degraded coins in practically known quantities. You can use them to barter with, with just about anyone. Silver is almost all consumed once, and it is gone. Gold is always around, somewhere. Silver is used in new electronics, new health uses, and in water purification. Silver and gold have a historical price interaction. Right now, silver has a long ways to go to get back up to traditional percent price. Am I making that clear?

reply to post by kettlebellysmith

We have a lot of coyotes around here. Late at night, they always start yipping in a chorus, and our dogs all join in. Couple months ago, someone poisoned the coyotes, and no more singing. Now, its back, but poisoning might be a valid option. Coyotes get hungry, they get brave. Most of the dogs are caged, so no danger to them from coyotes. Just rattlers.

reply to post by Gregarious


I am not informed on the gun laws in texas, are they more lenient? If I do drive my behind to the great state of Texas, do you suggest gun show or local store? My fear would be do take the time off work, invest the money in the trip, and wind up there leaving without a gun. Thanks in advance.