Technically is this a muzzleloader? By legal standards

This started with a friend and an ole barrel, that we were trying to decide what to make from it...50cal muzzleloader...

I am a self proclaimed gun alterer/ can't say gunsmith I'm not certified.
I am a state certified journeyman machinist/toolmaker, own a small tool makers lathe "hardinge' and and ole bridgeport mill, and a junky enco surface grinder.

I made a bolt on piece, that will accept 38 cal blanks, drilled a cross hole for the expanding gases, and now have a smokeless powder muzzle loader that does not require the extensive cleaning that anyone that messes with blackpowder is familiar with.

It still loads the same, patch and mini ball, just no powder.

I have asked my local game warden and a few friends if this would be legal to use during muzzleloading season....all I get is more questions and puzzled looks.

I did get an answer about my golfball gun, yes its legal to hunt with 1.6875 bore.
Tried a lead ball... OMG.. not something you would want to be holding against your shoulder when it goes off! forget the weight but I think it was almost a pound of lead.


But back on topic, if anyone could tell me the legallities, of using a real muzzle loader with a modified piece to allow for smokeless blanks to be used instead off black powder.
I know it sounds like a lot of crap, but the benefits of smokeless is worth it and could be marketed in the future, already applied for the patent.
Smokless=cleaner=more velocity=less stuff to pack around.

[edit on 15-1-2010 by Doc Holiday]

Well I'm sure you could contact your local friendly ATF field agent...

But I wouldn't.

You must have some brass ones to shoot that thing.

no under federal law.
if you just use a primer with out a case it would be a muzzle loader but since there is powder in the blank its a standard rifle.how the bullet is loaded no difference.
i ran onto this in a blackpowder cannon i wanted to use .27 rimfire nail gun blanks to fire a 2 inch bore blackpowder cannon.
media.photobucket.com...
I was told no. The largest thing i could use was shotgun primers.

Also blank powder is way to fast to use for propelling a bullet safely.
you will get excessive chamber pressures, likely to the point of cartridge failure.

reply to post by Doc Holiday


It varies a lot from state to state. States like PA want you to use a traditional style gun and most western states allow the modern designs like inlines that are almost like a breech loader.

But the bottom line is a muzzle loader loads the charge individually from the muzzle both the powder and the ball or conical. How you do your primer is up to you.

What you have there sounds more like you are loading the powder or propellant from the breech. So you have more or less half breech, half muzzle because the ball goes in the front and the charge or blank at the breech.

The only way to find out would be to shoot a deer with it in muzzle loader season, get challenged by the law and sort it out in court.

Personally I like to shoot flintlocks in muzzle loader season to make things more interesting. I made several from 36 to 58 cal., oh yes and a 1.500!

reply to post by ANNED


TY anned That makes the most sence, now I need to make a modification and make it so I can pour a metered amount of smokless powder into a chamber, capped off with a 209 shotty primer.
If I dont use a brass case that should do it I think.

As far as it working safely, I have fired it many many times, the 200 grain miniball chrono graphed at just over 950 FPS

If I use only the 209 primer it goes 180-200FPS I shoot this indoors in my basement at phonebooks on rainy days, even got some .44 cal air rifle pellets and use teflon shot wadding for the seal