Men more evolved? Y chromosome study stirs debate

Originally posted by Edrick

Women are more evolved than men, and yet are responsible for almost NO innovations, inventions, or discoveries.

Women have been oppressed, by something that they consider "Genetically Inferior" to themselves?

Lets get our facts straight here.... IF women ran the world... we would still be living in Caves.

-Edrick

This just shows that you're uneducated in the lines of women, but its not your fault, you're not one so you wouldn't give a crap what woman have accomplished...right? Not only has there been many great women inventors and leaders, but practically the entire world views men as better than women. It wasn't until a little after the 19th Amendment that America actually started giving women a chance. That being said, women have had hardly any time to prove themselves! Less than 70 years! The only reason men would be better then women is because they're physically more able. Although, basic instinct for any living beings is to survive, which is what us chicks provide; survival. I mean, lets face it, we have vag.

It wasn't until a little after the 19th Amendment that America actually started giving women a chance. That being said, women have had hardly any time to prove themselves! Less than 70 years! The only reason men would be better then women is because they're physically more able. Although, basic instinct for any living beings is to survive, which is what us chicks provide; survival. I mean, lets face it, we have vag.

Yeah, good point. Women didn't exist in the world until the USA brought them into existance.


LOL @ "they've only haven 70 years to prove themselves". Women have been here the same millions of years as men. The rest of that doesn't count? They were supposedly suppressed by inferiors? Your argument doesn't add up.

Please prove to me some of the great inventions that women have brought us, or some of the great leaders. Specifically name some. I'm curious.



[edit on 14-1-2010 by seattletruth]

reply to post by Hm?heather

This just shows that you're uneducated in the lines of women

Attacking the arguer is not a valid argument strategy... please try harder next time.

you're not one so you wouldn't give a crap what woman have accomplished...right?

You are presuming that women have accomplished something, instead of refuting my position.

This is a false argument tactic.

Not only has there been many great women inventors and leaders, but practically the entire world views men as better than women.

Ah, the law of large numbers...

Take any EXTREMELY large group, with a statistically insignificant amount of contributors, and claim that "MANY" have accomplished "Much"

Many women have accomplished much... compared to what?

Compared to dogs?

Compared to cats?

OR Compared to *MEN*?

It wasn't until a little after the 19th Amendment that America actually started giving women a chance.

Abraham Lincoln was born the son of a poor farmer.

He educated himself, through sweat and labor, hard work and self study.

He became the 16th president of the united states.

No one gave him a chance.

HE MADE HIS OWN CHANCE.

Women have the same opportunities as men, they always have, they always will.

That being said, women have had hardly any time to prove themselves! Less than 70 years!

Thanks to SeattleTruth for debunking this one.

The only reason men would be better then women is because they're physically more able.

Bears are stronger than humans, why are THEY not the dominant species?

By your logic, we should be serving Elephants.

Although, basic instinct for any living beings is to survive, which is what us chicks provide; survival. I mean, lets face it, we have vag.

Which is utterly useless without the penis.

-Edrick

Mary Anderson-invented windshield wipers.
Patricia Billing-invented Geobond.
Josephine Cochran-invented the dishwasher.
Katherine Blodgett-invented non reflecting glass.
Marie Curie-discovered radium.
Bette Graham-invented "white-out".
Mary Jacobs-invented the bra.
Amanda Jones-invented vacuum packing for food.
Stephanie Kwolek-invented Kevlar.
Patsy Sherman-invented "Scotchguard".
For more women inventors, astronauts, Nobel Prize winners, leaders see:

Distinguished Women

Originally posted by whitewave
What do you get for a rib? Whitewave sheepishly raises her hand.

Well what do you want for a rib?

Keep in mind the economy is bad!

Originally posted by whitewave
Mary Anderson-invented windshield wipers.
Patricia Billing-invented Geobond.
Josephine Cochran-invented the dishwasher.
Katherine Blodgett-invented non reflecting glass.
Marie Curie-discovered radium.
Bette Graham-invented "white-out".
Mary Jacobs-invented the bra.
Amanda Jones-invented vacuum packing for food.
Stephanie Kwolek-invented Kevlar.
Patsy Sherman-invented "Scotchguard".
For more women inventors, astronauts, Nobel Prize winners, leaders see:

Distinguished Women

Wow. That's quite a long list. /sarcasm

And the only reason men hadn't invented the dishwasher was because it was the one task they left for their wives to do.

Really important life changing things too.

And the windshield wipers were only partially invented by a woman, she helped.

Kevlar was only partially invented by a woman.

Who invented rubber? Who invented the squeegie?

Discoveries don't count as original thoughts, they are not an invention. radium doesn't count.

So.. You're left with "geobond", the bra, white-out, vaccuum packing (who invented the vaccuum? or the motor? or electricity to run it), and scotchgaurd.

Being an astronaut is not much of an accomplishment, it's simply a job.

Your list is kind of pathetic when you really look at it, considering women make up over half of the world population, and there are millions of patents that have been filed in the USA alone.

But I still love women

[edit on 14-1-2010 by seattletruth]

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler


As I recall, in the year 10,000 BC, the economy was VERY VERY bad. Adam was having a hard time with the cattle in the meat trade. Very controversial problems. Adam only had a shiny rock and a gray rock. Uh wow. Let me tell you about those shiny rocks in those days. Poor Adam got the deal of his life though. Unfortunately there was no Federal reserve in those days, and thus no federal loans. He needed his shiny rock to afford a dog and the gray one to buy a horse. So alas, his rib was all he had.

Randi Altschul
Randice-Lisa Altschul invented the world's first disposable cell phone.
Dr. Betsy Ancker-Johnson
Dr. Betsy Ancker-Johnson was the third woman inventor elected to the National Academy oF engineering.
Mary Anderson
Mary Anderson invented the windshield wiper. Anderson was issued a patent for the wipers in 1905.
Virginia Apgar
Apgar invented a newborn scoring system or "Apgar Score" for assessing the health of newborn infants.
Barbara Askins
Developed a totally new way of processing film.
Patricia Bath
The first African American woman doctor to receive a patent for a medical invention.
Miriam E. Benjamin
Ms. Benjamin was the second black woman inventor to receive a patent. She received a patent for an invention she called a "Gong and Signal Chair for Hotels".
Patricia Billings
Patricia Billings invented a indestructible and fireproof building material called Geobond®.
Katherine Blodgett
Invented the non-reflecting glass.
Bessie Blount
Blount invented a device to help disabled people eat with less difficulty.
Sarah Boone
An improvement to the ironing board was invented by African American Sarah Boone on April 26, 1892.
Rachel Fuller Brown
Rachel Brown co-invented Nystatin, the world's first useful antifungal antibiotic.
Josephine Garis Cochran
In 1886, Josephine Cochran invented the first practical dishwasher.
Martha J. Coston
Martha Coston invented a pyrotechnic signaling system known as maritime signal flares.
Dianne Croteau
Invented Actar 911, the CPR mannequin.
Marie Curie
Marie Curie also known as Madame Curie discovered radium and furthered x-ray technology.
Marion Donovan
The convenient disposable diaper was invented by New Yorker Marion Donovan in 1950.
Gertrude Belle Elion
Elion invented the leukemia-fighting drug 6-mercaptopurine, drugs that facilitated kidney transplants and other drugs for the treatment of cancer and leukemia.
Edith Flanigen
Flanigen was the inventor of a petroleum refining method and is considered one of the most inventive chemists of all time.
Helen Free
Free was the inventor of the home diabetes test.
Sally Fox
Sally Fox invented naturally-colored cotton.
Frances Gabe
Gabe invented the "Self Cleaning House".
Lillian Gilbreth
Lillian Moller Gilbreth was an inventor, author, industrial engineer, industrial psychologist, and mother of twelve children.
Sarah E. Goode
Sarah Goode was the first African American women to receive a U.S. patent.
Bette Nesmith Graham
Graham invented liquid paper, also known as White-Out™.
Temple Grandin
Temple Grandin invented livestock-handling devices.
KK Gregory
KK Gregory is the ten-year old inventor of Wristies®.
Ruth Handler
The Barbie doll was invented in 1959 by Ruth Handler.
Elizabeth Lee Hazen
Elizabeth Hazen co-invented Nystatin, the world's first useful antifungal antibiotic.
Beulah Henry
All told, Henry made about 110 inventions and holds 49 patents.
Dorothy Crowfoot Hodgkin
Hodgkin used x-rays to find the structural layouts of atoms and to discover the overall molecular shape of over 100 molecules including: penicillin, vitamin B-12, vitamin D and insulin.
Krisztina Holly
Co-invented the telephony software called Visual Voice.
Erna Schneider Hoover
Hoover invented the computerized telephone switching system.
Grace Hopper
Grace Hopper was a computer inventor best known for the Mark computer series.
Mary Phelps Jacob
Mary Phelps Jacob invented the bra.
Amanda Theodosia Jones
Jones re-invented American food production by inventing vacuum packed canning.
Marjorie Stewart Joyner
Joyner invented a permanent wave machine that would allow a hairdo to stay set for days.
Anna Keichline
Architect, Anna Keichline created inventions for the home.
Mary Kies: Patenting Pioneer
Kies was the first women to receive a U.S. patent on May 15, 1809.
Gabriele Knecht
Patented the Forward Sleeve design for creating clothing.
Margaret Knight
Margaret Knight was an employee in a paper bag factory when she invented a new machine part to make square bottoms for paper bags. Knight can be considered the mother of the grocery bag, she founded the Eastern Paper Bag Company in 1870.
Stephanie Louise Kwolek
Kwolek invented a material five times stronger than steel called Kevlar.
Hedy Lamarr
Lamarr was a movie star and inventor.
Ada Lovelace
Wrote a scientific paper in 1843 that anticipated the development of computer software artificial intelligence and computer music.
Sybilla Masters - First American Woman Inventor
Masters was the first American female inventor in recorded history, but no doubt women have been inventing since the dawn of time without the deserved recognition.
Ann Moore
Invented the Snugli baby carrier.
Krysta Morlan
Krysta Morlan invented a device that relieves the irritation caused by wearing a cast - the cast cooler.
Ellen Ochoa
Ochoa invented optical analysis systems and was the world's first Hispanic female astronaut.
Alice Parker
Alice Parker invented a new and improved gas heating furnace.
Betty Rozier and Lisa Vallino
Rozier and Vallino, a mother and daughter invention team, invented the intravenous catheter shield.
Patsy Sherman
Patsy Sherman invented Scotchgard™.
Valerie Thomas
Received a patent in 1980 for inventing an illusion transmitter.
Ann Tsukamoto
The co-patenter of a process to isolate the human stem cell.
Harriet Tubman
Harriet Tubman was considered the "Moses of the Civil War" for her work on the underground railroads.
Madame Walker
Madame Walker was a St. Louis washerwoman-turned-entrepreneur, who in 1905 invented a method to soften and smooth African American hair.
Mary Walton
Walton invented several anti-pollution devices during the Industrial Revolution.
Carol Wior
Invented the Slimsuit, a slimming swimsuit.
same source as before.

For more:
Chien-Shiung Wu (b. 1912) worked on the Manhattan Project during World War II. She created at least five inventions in experimental atomic physics, including devices for radiation-detection and radioactive-decay wavelength separation. Most notably, Wu designed the landmark experiments that allowed her colleagues Dao Li and Chen Ning Yang to win the Nobel Prize (1957) for proving that the Parity Principle does not hold universally. Wu herself was hailed by Newsweek in 1963 as the "Queen of Physics."

Ariel Hollinshead of George Washington University (b. 1929). In the 1970s, she developed a unique type of vaccine for all four major types of lung cancer, and invented a low-frequency sound technique for isolating antigens from cell membranes. In 1980, Hollinshead's work was called "among the most advanced and exciting in the world."

The world of computing has included many significant women inventors, the best-known being Grace Murray Hopper. Margaret K. Butler (b. 1924) was also a pioneer in computer hardware. Working at Argonne National Laboratories in the 1950s, she helped develop one of the world's first digital computers for science. Sandra Kurtzig of Atherton, California (b. 1947) has invented monitoring and information-sharing software for businesses. The company she founded with $2000 in 1972, ASK Computer, now does over $100 million in annual sales. Kurtzig herself has been called one of the "heroes of Silicon Valley."

These are a few I found on About.com. Sorry for the earlier "light" list. I didn't want to overwhelm your male brain.
Also, since your misogynist condescension has sufficiently irked me, I'll return with irrefutable evidence that shows there is indeed a gender war occurring at the genetic level and the Y chromosome is NOT winning.

reply to post by whitewave

Mary Anderson-invented windshield wipers.

Inventor J. H. Apjohn devised a method of moving two brushes up and down on a vertical plate glass windscreen in 1903. Mary Anderson is said to have invented the windscreen wiper swinging arm in the United States, where she patented the idea in 1903.

So... No.

Patricia Billing-invented Geobond.

GeoBond is a mixture of Plaster and Cement.

Josephine Cochran-invented the dishwasher.

The first reports of a mechanical dishwashing device are of an 1850 patent by Joel Houghton of a hand-powered device.

Katherine Blodgett-invented non reflecting glass.

The simplest form of anti-reflection coating was discovered by Lord Rayleigh in 1886.

Marie Curie-discovered radium.

Radium was discovered by Marie Skłodowska-Curie and her husband Pierre in 1898

Bette Graham-invented "white-out".

White Out is Tempera paint. Which was first used in Ancient Egypt...

Mary Jacobs-invented the bra.

In China during the Ming Dynasty (1368 to 1644) a form of foundation cloth complete with cups and straps drawn over shoulders and tied to the girth seam at the lower back called a dudou was in vogue among rich women.

Amanda Jones-invented vacuum packing for food.

en.wikipedia.org...

In 1872, she received a message from the spirits that told her to write to Cooley to find her destiny. She knew Cooley, but had no idea why she needed to write to him. Then the spirits suggested that canning could be done by removing the air and then replacing it with jelly or juice. She thought the idea sounded reasonable, but had never canned food in her life and had no knowledge of inventing. She contacted Cooley and they worked together to create the “Jones” process. They created the first model in 1873.

Wow... So she got help from Cooley, AND Spirits?

Stephanie Kwolek-invented Kevlar.

Well, she WAS part of an entire LAB that was studying polymers, but I'll give you that one.

Out of 9 thus far.

Patsy Sherman-invented "Scotchguard".

The original formula for Scotchgard was discovered accidentally in 1952 by 3M chemists Patsy Sherman and Samuel Smith.

So you just weren't going to mention Sam Smith, eh?

Do you research any of this?

Or do you just go to Google, type "Women Inventors" and copypasta from the first link?

-Edrick

reply to post by whitewave


I know your copy and paste skills are good, but your debate skill are bad.

Your list is lacking in quality, not to mention quantity.

You just proved that again by copy and pasting the talking point from another website.

I still love women though.

The ability for all your great men to be born required a mother. And the father had a mother, and his father had a mother, etc etc. You can go all the way back to infinity to when men were animals and there was no intelligence.

The woman selected a smart man. The daughters were smarter, and passed on their dominace genes of intelligence.

Thus women are the source of all men's intelligence.

Argument over.

The end.

You could tell these guys that everything ever done was discovered and invented by women and it wouldn't matter.

There is no reason to try and impress jackasses. Pearls before swine and all that. Even if they knew what they were looking at it, really the only two things on their mind is if they can eat it or # it.

Originally posted by Kailassa

If there is such a huge difference between the Y-chromosomes of chimps and those of human males, whose to say it's the human males who have been evolving. Quite possibly the human Y-chromosome has undergone little change in that time and it's the chimp Y which has been evolving. Observation of both species in their natural habitats certainly bears this out.

Awesome point, Kailassa.

As I read this thread I was thinking a couple things:

1) What effect does different generation length have on rates of evolution in chimps vs humans? I don't know my primate biology at all, but my impression is that chimps begin to produce young earlier than humans (a quick Google search gives time of first reproduction for wild chimps as 11-23 years, closer to humans than I would have thought. But I imagine that over tens of thousands of years even a small difference would produce a pretty significant difference in # of generations)

2) Is this related to the fact that males produce so many more gametes than females?

3) Could chimps' non-monogamous sexual practices have a "steadying" impact on y-chromosome mutations getting passed along? Here's how I'm thinking: in most cases, when a woman is fertile she only mates with one man. Any successful conception is therefore likely to happen with that man -- there is no need for sperm to "compete" with other mens' sperm. On the other hand, a female chimp often spends a part of her cycle in a "group sex" situation (not the most fertile part usually, but from the little I've read it seems plausible that it's enough to cause some post-sex "competition" as to which male's sperm will be successful in fertilization.

Disclaimer: I know only freshman-bio level genetics and nearly nothing about chimp reproduction. These are just some theories to play with

Source I got my chimp-sex info from.

reply to post by Aeons

You could tell these guys that everything ever done was discovered and invented by women and it wouldn't matter.

Of course it wouldn't matter, because it would be a LIE.

There is no reason to try and impress jackasses. Pearls before swine and all that. Even if they knew what they were looking at it, really the only two things on their mind is if they can eat it or # it.

Not really forwarding the debate, are you?

I would return your insult with a DEVASTATING one of my own, but I am... Above that sort of thing.

Nice Try though.

-Edrick

reply to post by Gorman91

The woman selected a smart man. The daughters were smarter, and passed on their dominace genes of intelligence.

Thus women are the source of all men's intelligence.

Of course... a woman selects a smart man, and all of the sudden she is responsible for his smartness.... That is some serious hypocrisy there.

Tell me.... if that women had selected a DUMB man, would her daughters still be smart?

Or would her daughters dumbness now be the man's Fault?

-Edrick

[edit on 14-1-2010 by Edrick]

reply to post by Edrick


Yes, clearly you are a gentleman and a scholar with too much class.



Keep thinking. I'm sure the "devastation" will come eventually.

reply to post by Edrick


...no. The daughter would not be smart. Hence why she is your mother.

AHHH SNAP SON!

NO, serious time.

Studies show that females are either attracted to intelligence, physical strength, or both (which I am proud to boast in having). Hence society is to this day divided between the nerds and the jocks and we supermen in between.

Or at least that's my cool-version of the story. The truth is that humanity was pretty much all but extinct at the time of the last ice age. Because men were the hunter gatherers back then, it is probably from a male that the discovery of tools was made. HOWEVER, jugs of water have been found dating to this time period, buried underground for storage. Guess who was responsible for fetching the water and berries? WOMEN! Thus while men were innovating and creating tools, women were innovating and creating useful things to.

And thus, to this day, the man buys the refrigerator, but can never find the orange juice when his wife needs it. lol.

Smart isn't associated to the Y.

One offs that are extraordinary may be more obvious in men. Of course, they often end up being associate to something that makes them unlikely to breed or sustain for long.

You are awfully hung up on your descended gonads. Exactly what is it that you think is so astounding about them?

Originally posted by Edrick
reply to post by Gorman91

 

The woman selected a smart man. The daughters were smarter, and passed on their dominace genes of intelligence.

Thus women are the source of all men's intelligence.

Of course... a woman selects a smart man, and all of the sudden she is responsible for his smartness.... That is some serious hypocrisy there.

Tell me.... if that women had selected a DUMB man, would her daughters still be smart?

Or would her daughters dumbness now be the man's Fault?

-Edrick

[edit on 14-1-2010 by Edrick]

For some reason, it always frightens me that we of so many bolts and cuts of cloth attracted to a site like ATS, many of us even hold it's motto dear...yet among we kindred spirits, the males and the females alike, we cannot get along. We seize the first opportunity to bare our fangs and imbibe the blood of our comrades. If this was in deep, rational debate over something like some facet of the state of our crumbling world and done tactfully, I could forgive it, but this is all conjecture at it's finest, and ripping apart one another based on half-cocked theories and things that we absolutely cannot change...who and what we are. We all came from a man and a woman. Every one of us. Which is better or worse than the other, the male or the female? Can that even be answered logically? I long for the day that the world recognizes *individuals* based on their character, their being and their works, instead of judging and evaluating and even writing off people based on their gender. It's scary that here is a site populated by "fringe" or "free thinkers" for the most part, and yet we can't accept ourselves and eachother? This is sad. I am not calling out names, but you know who you are. Also, this is certainly not the first of such discussions up here which inevitably devolve into something from the pits of sub-humanity. The usual suspects always arrive in answer to the battlecry, and so it continues...

Let there be peace. Let there be love. Let there be freedom.

reply to post by Aeons


may i just say. edrick seems to be showing you up this guys good ansers are relentless and yours some what lacking

but keep going this is funny to see