"Guns don't kill people, people kill people"

I for one am in the middle on gun control.

It is undeniably true that the widespread presence of guns is ONE OF MANY factors that affect crime rates. Poverty, lack of education, a break down of the family structure, and drugs are other factors that affect crime rates.

When it comes to the question of lowering crime, we have to ask ourselves which factors we should try and tackle. I am partially with the pro-gun control crowd in that lowering guns may not be the best way to lower crime rates. The better way to reduce gun crimes may be to tackle other factors like poverty, drug abuse, etc.

If we get rid of all the guns tomorrow, the people who commit gun crimes are still going to be ignorant, addicted to drugs, and in poverty. These people are still going to get into trouble, or at least largely be under-productive Would it not be better to live in a society with plenty of guns, but few drug addicts, few people living in poverty, and few people from broken homes?

Originally posted by hotpinkurinalmint
If we get rid of all the guns tomorrow, the people who commit gun crimes are still going to be ignorant, addicted to drugs, and in poverty.

AND they'll still have guns!

That's the ridiculous part of anti-gun legislation — It only affects those who obey the law. If you're a criminal, you don't give a flying fock about gun laws, and you still commit gun crimes (as is the case in England, where gangs still use firearms in the commission of crimes every day, while the common citizen has to hide indoors).

After guns are banned, the law-abiding citizen won't be able to fight back.

— Doc Velocity

reply to post by Doc Velocity

(as is the case in England, where gangs still use firearms in the commission of crimes every day, while the common citizen has to hide indoors).

You can apply your logic to the USA, it doesn't apply to England. Gun crime represents less than 0.05% of all reported crime....

Facts & figures

* The number of overall offences involving firearms fell by 2% in 2007-08 compared to the previous year
* Firearms were involved in 455 serious or fatal injuries, compared to 468 the previous year - a drop of 3%
* Offences involving handguns effectively held steady, those involving shotguns were down 3%
* The number of reported crimes involving imitation guns effectively held steady

link

Now supposing England decided to allow guns for the citizens, would that figure go down...or up?

Originally posted by Kandinsky
You can apply your logic to the USA, it doesn't apply to England. Gun crime represents less than 0.05% of all reported crime.... Now supposing England decided to allow guns for the citizens, would that figure go down...or up?

Give the guns back to the citizens and the crime rate would plummet. Period. It's a given. Time tested. There's nothing like an Englishman cavorting with a shotgun to set the record straight.

The Brits should be at the FOREFRONT of gun advocacy, they gave it to the world, look sharp thar, lad.

— Doc Velocity

Guns don't kill people, it's postal workers that kill people.

Originally posted by Doc Velocity

I haven't heard ANY liberals EVER in favor of "fairness" or "equality," and the only peaceniks I ever see are carrying insulting and accusatory signs at military funerals.

Yeah that's right.... because the Godhatesfags group aren't religious are they?

Real Christian tolerance there.

You have no idea what you're talking about... which is evident in your extremely warped answers and view of the world.

How sad.

I guess "blupblup" is the sound of you drinking the liberal koolaid, eh?

— Doc Velocity

Yes... that's right, that's exactly what it is.

Originally posted by Doc Velocity

Give the guns back to the citizens and the crime rate would plummet. Period. It's a given. Time tested. There's nothing like an Englishman cavorting with a shotgun to set the record straight.

The Brits should be at the FOREFRONT of gun advocacy, they gave it to the world, look sharp thar, lad.

— Doc Velocity

You literally have NO idea what you're talking about do you?

If you carry a gun or have one in your home, you're 4 times more likely to be killed or injured by a gun.

So...er... yeah, lets give everyone guns.

I think ALL people in England are glad we don't have guns everywhere, and are happy for it to stay that way.


You can keep your constitution and your "right to bear arms" and we'll just move forward and use other means to deal with our problems.

Thanks.

Where do y ou get that ridiculous statement from? I have several guns and I carry one everyday, have for years. My father and most of my friends do the same. I have never known anyone personally that has been killed or injured by a gun (with the exception of some soldiers). I do not buy into the stats from either side of the argument, as stats can be made to say whatever you want them to say. I tend to use real life facts here. I request that you read this or any other article about Kennesaw Ga and thier gun laws and the result of such laws. That is a real life test bed.

www.freerepublic.com...

reply to post by SM2


Actually that really does not prove that gun ownership is the cause of a lack of crime in that town.

If they went from high crime to low crime after the gun law was changed then you might have a point.

The town has a population of 13,000, extremely low, so how high do you expect the homicide rate to be? I live in a city of over 800,000 and there was only 45 murders last year 2009.

Your town had a murder rate of 0.023% of the population.
My city had a murder rate of 0.012%.

Where is the difference caused by your gun ownership? And we have some of the toughest, most restrictive gun control laws in the country here. We also have a major very well known state prison who's released inmates quite often end up here in the city.

[edit on 1/31/2010 by ANOK]

Originally posted by blupblup
If you carry a gun or have one in your home, you're 4 times more likely to be killed or injured by a gun.

And your kid is 40 times more likely to be killed as a passenger in your automobile than by gunfire, how's that for a statistic. U.S. Census.

So what?

You angry old anti-gun wags never cease in dragging meaningless statistics out of context and flogging the law-abiding citizen with them. That's because you're fearful little people who fear everything in your pathetic lives, and you just love spreading lies and misery.

Look, you go unarmed and I'll go armed and let's see who's still alive in 5 years. The odds are 400% in my favor.

— Doc Velocity




[edit on 1/31/2010 by Doc Velocity]

reply to post by Doc Velocity

You obviously don't know the laws here in England. If an intruder enters your home, you can't even use excessive force to defend yourself let alone shoot the intruder with a gun. If he dies or receives serious injuries then you'll be spending at least 5 years in prison and the intruder will probably be let off easy.

A millionaire businessman has been jailed for two and a half years for taking on a knife-wielding burglar who held him and his family hostage in their home.

www.thisislondon.co.uk...

Thankfully due to public pressure and condemnation he has now been freed and so he bloody should be.

www.telegraph.co.uk...

This entire incident absolutely stinks and exemplifies everything that is wrong with our government and the justice system in our country. It's beyond a joke, as are most of the bought and paid for judges.

Myleene Klass told off by police for brandishing knife at youths.

www.tattletart.com...

As for guns, we don't need them, as there's no place for guns in a civilised society. A fair justice sytem is what we need. One that protects victims and not the criminals.

www.express.co.uk...

[edit on 31-1-2010 by kindred]

Will a gun on a table in the middle of the pub full of drunk people ever be used by accident?

Originally posted by Doc Velocity

Originally posted by Kandinsky
You can apply your logic to the USA, it doesn't apply to England. Gun crime represents less than 0.05% of all reported crime.... Now supposing England decided to allow guns for the citizens, would that figure go down...or up?

Give the guns back to the citizens and the crime rate would plummet. Period. It's a given. Time tested. There's nothing like an Englishman cavorting with a shotgun to set the record straight.

The Brits should be at the FOREFRONT of gun advocacy, they gave it to the world, look sharp thar, lad.

— Doc Velocity

My household is one of the few in Britain that actually has a legal shotgun. Its a remnant from when my Dad lived on a farm. Its up the attic locked in a cabinet. I've lived there 23 years and never seen it, never held it and certainly never fired it. If it wasn't a family heirloom then we wouldn't even have it in the house.

Don't need one
Don't want one
But thanks anyway.

Originally posted by Doc Velocity

Originally posted by blupblup
If you carry a gun or have one in your home, you're 4 times more likely to be killed or injured by a gun.

And your kid is 40 times more likely to be killed as a passenger in your automobile than by gunfire, how's that for a statistic. U.S. Census.

So what?

You angry old anti-gun wags never cease in dragging meaningless statistics out of context and flogging the law-abiding citizen with them.

Well I pulled that figure out of my ass... that's what i thought we were doing?
I took my lead from you and your baseless and pointless drivel.


Yes I'm such and Anti-gun wag me... that's what I am.
That's my actual profession...

That's because you're fearful little people who fear everything in your pathetic lives, and you just love spreading lies and misery.

Look, you go unarmed and I'll go armed and let's see who's still alive in 5 years. The odds are 400% in my favor.

— Doc Velocity
[edit on 1/31/2010 by Doc Velocity]

Awesome.... so I have a pathetic life because i don't need to carry a gun or care for guns?

I'll happily take your bet dude...

Stats prove that You're more likely to be killed or injured just by owning a gun so... whatever.


And how am I spreading misery....?
By shooting people with my opinions?

:shk: :shk:

This is a tough issue. I am however a firm gun rights advocate. IMHO guns were invented to be a more efficient way of killing therefore ensuring your survival, whether against human or animal. It is more efficient than a spear or a rock. Having been on both sides of the gun, once by a sniper, and another time with it held to my temple, I can guarantee they were not worried if they were violating any gun control ordinance. If someone wants to kill someone they will find the most efficient way - even in the most "civilized" countries with gun control. My mother was 2 blocks from Trafalger Square subway when the bombs went off there (1989?90?). That was her destination.

BTW - I realize the police are only there to take reports after the fact, but I can tell you I was so glad to see the SWAT team up close and personal...

First and foremost a gun is an advertisement to show what I am willing to do to protect myself and family... it is up to who I am pointing it at that chooses how I will use it.

Casing

Oh and please dont say it is because I or my family own/ed guns that these things happened... for the sniper, I was 12 and my sister was 7, for the gun to my temple I was 10. It is BECAUSE of these incidences that I will NOT be a "victim" again.

[edit on 31-1-2010 by Casing]

If people didn't have guns they would use something else. I have a compound bow that would also be very effective at ending life. Bows don't kill people, my drawing back on the string and letting go does.

Swords,
Axes,
Blunt Objects... Doesn't matter

Pro: I can defend myself from a foreign adversary, an intruder, or if needs be my own government. Guns are valuable for us to keep.

Remember! Politicians want unarmed peasants!

Originally posted by blupblup

Originally posted by Doc Velocity

Give the guns back to the citizens and the crime rate would plummet. Period. It's a given. Time tested. There's nothing like an Englishman cavorting with a shotgun to set the record straight.

The Brits should be at the FOREFRONT of gun advocacy, they gave it to the world, look sharp thar, lad.

— Doc Velocity

You literally have NO idea what you're talking about do you?

If you carry a gun or have one in your home, you're 4 times more likely to be killed or injured by a gun.

So...er... yeah, lets give everyone guns.

I think ALL people in England are glad we don't have guns everywhere, and are happy for it to stay that way.


You can keep your constitution and your "right to bear arms" and we'll just move forward and use other means to deal with our problems.

Thanks.

Care to back up your made up statistics with a source?

A Dog, mans best friend, or so you thought.

Dog shoots Iowa man during hunt

A man out hunting in Iowa was shot in the leg after a hunting dog stepped on his gun, authorities said.

news.bbc.co.uk...

Dog shoots man during hunting trip

Authorities in central California say a hunter was wounded by his best friend, a female Labrador retriever.

video.nbc-2.com...

Dog Shoots And Kills Owner

A hunting dog apparently stepped on a loaded shotgun in the bed of his owner's pickup truck, firing a fatal blast into the man's thigh during a goose hunt, officials said.

cbs11tv.com...

Puppy shoots Florida man, deputies say

A man who tried to shoot seven puppies was shot himself when one of the dogs put its paw on the revolver’s trigger.

www.msnbc.msn.com...

Owner shot by his own dog, a great dane.



I think I've proved my point. Guns kill.

[edit on 2-2-2010 by kindred]

Originally posted by defcon5
It’s a stupid statement because guns can kill by themselves minus any human intent to kill something. You ever hear of an accidental discharge?

It is not a stupid statement.

Who loaded the gun? I don't see a gun loading itself.

Nothing gets people fired up like a gun control debate. People from countries that do no allow guns to be held privately generally do not like or want guns. People from countries that do allow guns generally like and want guns.

I personally think the guns are not the problem, it is the people, alcohol, drugs and mental illness of those that commit crimes and have a gun. A drunk or drugged up person can kill me with a golf club just as easily as a gun. The gun is only one of many tools that can kill people. I live in a stated that allows citizens to carry a concealed weapon and I like it.

There was a mass murder in my state at a Luby's cafeteria where a crazy man with 2 guns and killed 23 people. Some patrons had handguns in their vehicles as the law at the time allowed but died since they were not allowed to carry them into the restaurant on their person or purse. The law was changed and now allows citizens to carry weapons with a permit.

If you do not agree with the law then do not live in my state and do not live in my country, it is that simple. I do not care on any level what the country you live in allows or does not allow. People will NEVER agree on gun laws, abortion or the use of military force etc...etc....etc....The list goes on forever so just do the best you can where you live and leave me alone. Thanks.