The social experiment that could change the world

Having taken an interest and a part time politics course last year, I've been toying with the idea of creating a social experiment, that I hope could turn out to be a whole lot more. As I sat down and began typing this evening I decided that I must collaborate with others if this experiment is going to be any kind of success.

The premise starts with the use of the social web, and moving with the trends and recent successes such as the Facebook campaigns for Christmas number one for example, coinciding with the stories of the elite wanting to shut down various parts of the web I see only a finite window of opportunity to begin this project, but I need your help.

The idea begins with the creation of a Facebook group; I won't go into the statistics, we're all aware of how incredibly successful Facebook groups have been in attaining their goals, and this is why I feel this will be the most useful tool at our disposal. Please also let's not get bogged down in the Facebook conspiracies - I'm sure they are data mining and selling all of our data on, but this particular group aims so that if successful that really won't matter once all is through.

This is only an experiment, which may become much more but I feel as though the only failure would come about if we never even try. If we try and fail that's a whole different matter.

Basically what I am proposing is simply a Facebook group, for now, which will set its goals out to become a true peoples democratic party. I believe, strongly, that a government run 'by the people, for the people' is the only way to create a truly fair society. A government where there is no ruling class, no elitist power hungry and no possible way into corruption. Every man (and woman) has equal voting rights, not simply to elect a local representative, but on every issue that affects their lives.

People may choose to vote or not, but whatever the outcome those who didn't vote will have no recourse to complain, and the issues that really matter will be sorted out fairly and justly by way of national vote, not decided by corporate sponsored bureaucrats who are far removed from the majority of voters daily lives for issues not to matter to them. What I propose is akin to revolution, and in a very serious but truly peaceful way. The aim is to promote the group using the very tool that scares them the most, the net, in a way that everyone understands, using terminology that the everyman uses and reaching the people via the sites they are already using daily.

Now, of course the success of this group will determine the viability of such a system. It may be that the comments in this thread determine that the idea is preposterous and should be scrapped immediately - but like I said, if we don't at least discuss this type of thing then we really have failed before we begun.

I will post below part's of what I have written this evening; please note these are just musings, and I appreciate that there is so much more work involved, but I for one am willing to put in the effort to make this a success and I'm hoping I will meet a friendly face or 2 here who would also be willing to contribute. If the idea forms into a large enough group I will indeed register a party in the UK and have everyone in the group pledge to make their vote. We would need a local representative for each area and on this we would vote and immediately abolish their role and open up the national voting system on every policy should (heaven forbid) we succeed.

----

Democracy. A word we use often, but haven't known for a very long time. A word which describes the very foundation of modern society, and yet in practice has rarely been seen. A word, or rather phrase, coined in ancient Greece between 5-4 BC which breaks down simply into 2 parts; dêmos meaning People, and krátos meaning Power.
The concept of People Power is not what we have today. However, tools such as the internet are helping to slowly grant back the power which was wrangled from the British people many centuries ago by an elite few, whose ancestors still own great portions of our land and control many politically and economically influential institutions to this very day.

The internet allows us to share knowledge immediately. To make connections with people we otherwise would never meet. But most importantly the internet has offered us a place where your opinion can be voiced to hundreds of millions of people, and accessed at any time of the day or night. So, why not make yours count.

The aim of this group is to become a major rival to the main political parties, to take the corrupt government out of power and to install a true democracy – People Power.

If you join the group and we successfully take office, you will have the opportunity to vote - not just once every 4 years - but on every decision taken that will affect all of us. This is how the country should be run. By the people and for the people. Nobody in this group aims to control nor create power out of nothing. All men are created equal, we're here to see that through, with you.

Transparent government, access to documents hidden by past governments, more freedoms and less restrictions. Make a vote that really counts, not just for one election but on every issue.

Politicians lie: we've seen this time and again. Take, for example, the war in Iraq. Blair has admitted he embellished the information to take us into war because it “was right to remove Saddam”. It was NOT, however, right to lie to the people, we are the real power. Without your vote, they are nothing.

How would you have handled the Iraq war? How would you have handled the expenses scandal? How would you have handled the banking failures?

I assume your answer to all of the above, and most likely the majority of political decisions taken within the last 12 years, would be significantly different from how the government actually dealt with them. It's time for change. Your change. And, we don't mean another 4 years of 'the other party'. I see and hear daily how dismayed and bemused my fellow British men and women are at the failings of their government on almost every single political topic discussed.

Are you going to allow the rights you never fought for to be revoked for your children? Or, are you willing to make the real vote for change, the vote for you, for your neighbour, for your children and their children? We have the power, the means, but only a short time to prepare. You decide.

"the idea is preposterous and should be scrapped immediately"

You haven't even had time to read, let alone consider the proposal...

how is it possible you put any thought into that response?

reply to post by Pr0t0


I read very quickly. Do you want me to lay out the key points of your premise?

Well I didn't spend my time writing to receive one line responses...

Yes, please.

Dont hede advice from those who wish to destroy your dream. Its yours not his, it may be someone else's. Not mine, but im not your countrymen so its more political than personal.

Basically what I am proposing is simply a Facebook group, for now, which will set its goals out to become a true peoples democratic party.

First off, people shouldn’t have to read the majority of your thread to see you’re talking about the UK, but everything I’m saying is about America and can be extended to the UK.

How will this “true peoples democratic party” disrupt the oligarchy, plutocracy and hegemony that currently control the nation?

You then go on to say those who don’t vote don't have the right to voice an opinion or complain, but you fail to realize that currently, those who do vote don’t have a say so in the way this country is governed. What makes your option more viable or realistic? Why would anyone want to support it?

EDITED TO ADD THE FOLLOWING:

Without your vote, they are nothing.

False. They don’t need your vote. They need your mind, body and soul. They need you to be sheeple. They need you to be forever dependent on them.

Transparent government, access to documents hidden by past governments, more freedoms and less restrictions. Make a vote that really counts, not just for one election but on every issue.

And if the documents reveal something horrible about the nation, or show the books aren’t correct what do you do?

The aim of this group is to become a major rival to the main political parties, to take the corrupt government out of power and to install a true democracy – People Power.

How can you become a major rival when you don’t have the finances or marketing campaign to become a major rival?


[edit on 11-1-2010 by EMPIRE]

Originally posted by Pr0t0
you will have the opportunity to vote - not just once every 4 years - but on every decision taken that will affect all of us.

So you get in, let us vote that the maximum price of petrol is 5p a gallon, Beer is limited to 5p a pint, all taxes are stopped and the most any public servant or politician can get paid is £50,000.

I guarantee that it would get voted for, so how are you going to run your country now?

Originally posted by EMPIRE

Basically what I am proposing is simply a Facebook group, for now, which will set its goals out to become a true peoples democratic party.

First off, people shouldn’t have to read the majority of your thread to see you’re talking about the UK, but everything I’m saying is about America and can be extended to the UK.

Firstly I don't feel it necessary to place a caption on the locale of this experiment. What works in the UK may work equally well in other parts of the world where they have more than a 2 party system; which in fairness is most other parts of the world. Largely being an American reader base I see where you're coming from, but it doesn't make my thread any less appropriate and I wouldn't want to miss some sage American advice because they felt precluded from reading a thread aimed towards the UK.

How will this “true peoples democratic party” disrupt the oligarchy, plutocracy and hegemony that currently control the nation?

Simple. The current system allows for statutes and laws to be debated in the house of commons over 3 readings and then over to the house of lords. Presently, you know as well as most here, laws and statutes often favour those who sponsor elitist activities and serve to make their dealings, mostly financially, easier. Just one more 'Nay' vote will change things, if only by 0.25% of the commons vote, but it's still a move in a positive direction for everyone outside of the ruling classes.

You then go on to say those how don’t vote have to right to voice an opinion or complain, but you fail to realize that currently, those who do vote don’t have a say so in the way this country is governed. What makes your option more viable or realistic? Why would anyone want to support it?

I have a feeling you've misread something, no problem. This idea allows that every person of voting age has the right to choose to vote or not to vote. So the people DO have a say in the way the country is governed, but not just once every 4 years, on every issue that is presented to parliament. The group, it's members and with invitations extended to the populace using unique online verifiers to ensure one vote per person. Sure, there will be some who say that a system like this can be hacked or otherwise corrupted by those who count votes, or automate the system or so on, but having worked for both a major ISP and a large network security group I'm confident that we can find a group of more than trustworthy people to look after such a system. The reason people will support it is because they are getting something they haven't had, really ever - a true opinion that really counts.

I genuinely appreciate your comments, I must say I'm not put off the idea any, I still full believe it can work. I'd be surprised if there aren't many more who think the same - if there aren't I really don't think we can carry on complaining at how we're currently treated... what other alternatives have we tried?

Edit, to respond to your edit: Everything you've pointed out just makes me think you're one of those 'sheeple', and happy to go along with how it is in that case. Does nobody have any desire to attempt something out of the ordinary and capture the imagination of the people so that we can at least try to break the current regimes?

And if the documents reveal something horrible about the nation, or show the books aren’t correct what do you do?

I imagine they will. I sincerely think they will show what a terrible mess we're in and will only serve to push other nations into a similar desire to know more. There will be bitterness toward those who created the mess, but without airing the problem, there can't be any solution.

As for marketing and budget, its not necessary with the tools at our disposal. I could create an email campaign right now and have it sent to a million people at less than the cost of a meal out. The times have changed and we won;t want to waste the publics money on outdoor advertising, and I'm pretty sure most people would be grateful of that.

Again, sincerely appreciate your input.

[edit on 11-1-2010 by Pr0t0]

I think it's a good idea and facebook would be a great venue to gather large numbers of members really quickly. while I cannot vouch for it's potential to succeed (and empire does bring up some good points), that shouldn't deter you from trying, if it's something you truly want to do.


And while constructive criticism is good, one line posts declaring an idea is not satisfactory cannot be construed as 'constructive.' at all.

reply to post by CSquared288


The one liner was taken directly from his post and he's getting feedback now. Next time read before you comment.

I think it is a fanastic idea.... I will read through it propely when i have ore time kx

reply to post by EMPIRE


hahah. if forgot that made it helpful and constructive...?
^^^ upward inflection

and necessary? and mature?

adult conversations are swell.



[edit on 1/11/10 by CSquared288]

I read through the post, it is still creating a policital system and so by its nature will be fraught with problems. However i do really think its a good idea and i would be happy to help (uk) Facebook is a fantastic social networking tool and really does have te ability to create change...
Really prob the best thing to do it get the ball up and rolling as soon as possible. If I can be of any assistants plz just U2U me. I would be more than happy to help in any way i can within my remit...
kx

Great idea OP! I have always thought something like this too. Nice to see other people have the same views as me! I've had an idea of having a "ticker tape" that says when/what will be voted on and making sure everyone has an opportunity to vote. You would have the chance to vote anywhere, through internet and cell phones. You could have voting booth stations through out cities to ensure everyone can vote regardless of the technology they have. It would be a huge effort but it has such a good chance to succeed I see no reason for it not to.



Would this only be for the UK? Why stop there? Take this international baby!

I really hope you take the time to get this going, I'd be quite willing to help as well just U2U me.

Yes EMPIRE is right, and the feedback is very much welcomed. Up to now it's only been more of a driving factor for me as I'm able to consider tough questions which will be raised in the future if this goes ahead.

I don't want any part of this thread to become argumentative, but I welcome all constructive feedback be that positive or negative. If I have an answer in my head at the time I'll happily respond and if not I'll certainly take the time to think more about it. I genuinely feel positive about this move, and even if it is a short lived idea, I don't want it to be dismissed without fully considering it's merits in entirety.

@dereks

So you get in, let us vote that the maximum price of petrol is 5p a gallon, Beer is limited to 5p a pint, all taxes are stopped and the most any public servant or politician can get paid is £50,000.

I guarantee that it would get voted for, so how are you going to run your country now?

I like your thinking as far as petrol and beer go I think it would have to depend on the production cost but certainly I'd want to bring down the tax to a reasonable rate.

As long as the people make the choices but are also aware that they live with the consequences, anything is possible why not. I'm confident that as long as everything was approached with reason and foresight, which will be outlined for every proposal i.e. if we vote for a) the following risks are a factor, however if we vote for b) these other risks may arise... then we're all in for a fair and balanced decision making process. IMO, anyway.

I don't know anyone who wouldn't take the £30billion proposed for Trident nukes and place it in the health service, ergo creating an opportunity to lower taxes, yes.

Also don't know anyone who wouldn't have handled the banker bailout differently, ensuring the market stood as a free market where failures are just as liable as their successful counterparts, and therefore not costing the taxpayer.

reply to post by Pr0t0

Firstly I don't feel it necessary to place a caption on the locale of this experiment.

Why not? While there are similarities between America and the UK, there are major differences and this should have been stated from the start. You should have addressed what demographic you’re trying to reach, what country you’re trying to change, etc.

What works in the UK may work equally well in other parts of the world where they have more than a 2 party system; which in fairness is most other parts of the world.

See above.

Largely being an American reader base I see where you're coming from, but it doesn't make my thread any less appropriate and I wouldn't want to miss some sage American advice because they felt precluded from reading a thread aimed towards the UK.

No it doesn’t make the thread inappropriate, it makes the thread hard to follow along as this is information that should have been presented earlier on. N.P.

Simple. The current system allows for statutes and laws to be debated in the house of commons over 3 readings and then over to the house of lords. Presently, you know as well as most here, laws and statutes often favour those who sponsor elitist activities and serve to make their dealings, mostly financially, easier. Just one more 'Nay' vote will change things, if only by 0.25% of the commons vote, but it's still a move in a positive direction for everyone outside of the ruling classes.

This does not answer my question and isn’t “simple.” Again, how will this “true peoples democratic party” disrupt the oligarchy, plutocracy and hegemony that currently control the nation? One more “Nay” vote will not disrupt a system that has been in existence for centuries now. How will this party prevent infiltration by the ruling class?

I have a feeling you've misread something, no problem.

No I haven’t misread anything. Here are your exact words:

People may choose to vote or not, but whatever the outcome those who didn't vote will have no recourse to complain...

This idea allows that every person of voting age has the right to choose to vote or not to vote. So the people DO have a say in the way the country is governed, but not just once every 4 years, on every issue that is presented to parliament.

And if the person does not vote then what? According your plan people who do not vote have no recourse to complain, but why is this so?

The group, it's members and with invitations extended to the populace using unique online verifiers to ensure one vote per person. Sure, there will be some who say that a system like this can be hacked or otherwise corrupted by those who count votes, or automate the system or so on, but having worked for both a major ISP and a large network security group I'm confident that we can find a group of more than trustworthy people to look after such a system. The reason people will support it is because they are getting something they haven't had, really ever - a true opinion that really counts.

But your country, as well as mine, the only opinions that matters are the opinions of the power elite.

I genuinely appreciate your comments, I must say I'm not put off the idea any, I still full believe it can work. I'd be surprised if there aren't many more who think the same - if there aren't I really don't think we can carry on complaining at how we're currently treated... what other alternatives have we tried?

Many people are thinking as yourself, and it’s not a bad idea. The problem is they have the world under lock and key and you can’t possibly compete with them. BTW, I made edits to my post so if you don’t mind answering the edited parts you’ll have more insight.

reply to post by purplemer

it is still creating a policital system and so by its nature will be fraught with problems.

You're absolutely right. To begin with we have to work within the means of the current system... there's just no way around that. OK sure we could all decide to stop paying taxes tomorrow, but it's only us who would suffer in the long run. This way, at least I hope, we have a way to ease public voting into the current mainstream system without the tragedy associated with revolt of any kind.

I will certainly need all the help I can get to further the project, so I'll most definitely remember your offer, thanks

@kyle43

I've had an idea of having a "ticker tape" that says when/what will be voted on and making sure everyone has an opportunity to vote. You would have the chance to vote anywhere, through internet and cell phones. You could have voting booth stations through out cities to ensure everyone can vote regardless of the technology they have.

I've thought about this (how doesn't that surprise you ) and it's actually one of the more, if not the most complex issue involved. How do you ensure that everyone who is eligible make only one vote and are assured access and security to make that vote. I don't agree with identity cards, so thats not it. The only alternative is to have a registered user base who login the same way we do to any site and gain only one vote per issue. This then becomes a question of password security which as previously mentioned I hope (and will be speaking with some former colleagues regarding) that there is a trustwortthy level of encryption that can be employed in order to allow things such as mobile app and kiosk voting, as you mention.

Great contributions, thanks guys

[edit on 11-1-2010 by Pr0t0]

reply to post by EMPIRE


Thanks again.

Maybe it's just that I've thought the idea through for quite a while and I've answered a lot of this to myself that I've not articulated well enough to have you understand - or perhaps it's that I'm blinkered because I'm passionate about seeing the people returned to power here. Either way I do find some of this 'simple' much moreso than the current system, so please don't be offended when I say 'simple' and it really doesn't seem so - it's not, you're right, but the ideals and logic are.

I'll bypass the location issue if I may and if more agree with you I'll add (UK) to the title but for the time being I think this idea reaches European nations equally and wouldn't want to squander the possible useful input of a member through pigeonholing.

This does not answer my question and isn’t “simple.” Again, how will this “true peoples democratic party” disrupt the oligarchy, plutocracy and hegemony that currently control the nation? One more “Nay” vote will not disrupt a system that has been in existence for centuries now. How will this party prevent infiltration by the ruling class?

In a system where the voters literally make all the decisions there is no room for political schmoozing, sponsorship or otherwise swaying of opinions. The present oligarchy, the billionaires you are referring to will have to persuade an awful lot of people that it's in their interest to pass or veto a particular issue so much so that it would genuinely have to be in their interest... and what's good for the majority is what we're aiming for, so this is why the dangers of corruption in this kind of system actually fail to operate.

One more 'nay' vote can be the deciding factor in an argument. 20 more can be disruptive to the elitists, and 100 more can make the swing. In Britain there are short of 400 members of the house of commons who are voted in by constituency (their area). We only need enough members in one area to get that one seat. Enough members in multiple areas and the sky is the limit.

By allowing everyone equal access to vote and ensuring that every effort is placed into letting the people know what issues are being voted for my point was that if somebody chooses not to vote on a particular issue, as is their prerogative, they can reasonably have no arguement once a measure has been passed - being that they have received every opportunity to have their say... that is what I was referring to. If many people argue that they weren't aware for any reason and this would amount to a number large enough to change the outcome the fair response would be to have a re-vote - think the Irish referendum but with much less propeganda to sway the decision

Many people are thinking as yourself, and it’s not a bad idea. The problem is they have the world under lock and key and you can’t possibly compete with them. BTW, I made edits to my post so if you don’t mind answering the edited parts you’ll have more insight.

This is the major problem we face. And no offence intended, this is the 'there's nothing we can do about it' attitude that has kept us under lock and key. This is an attempt to break out of that box and say 'hey, we know you want to control us, but you know what? we're not going to let you anymore' .... the true power lies not in the wealth of resources or monopoly money but in the voice of the many forcing the ears of the few to listen hard.

I edited my earlier post in response thanks again, and please all keep this thread alive so as many people as possible can comment and discuss, I'm really happy with the thoughts coming through here

a lot of people on facebook have multiple accounts just for gaming. it's against the terms of use but virtually impossible to police judging by the amount of people who do it.

what's stopping your voters registering hundreds of accounts to manipulate the votes?

it sounds to me like you're wanting to form another government party which is fine, anyone can do that. but who is going to fund it?