Oh About Those 32,000 "Leading Scientists" Against Global Climate Change.

reply to post by AllexxisF1

There actually is a reasoned debate on this subject.
The ice core samples told a much different story than the "hockey stick" that Al Gore ALMOST successfully swindled us with.
But, I am not going to put it on your plate, I am not much of a waiter.
It's here...

climatedebatedaily.com...

But, you have to find it.

So how does a carbon tax or carbon credit trading help anyway?

Say the allowable emission is 10 units. Your corporation outputs 12 so you pay a tax or trade a credit with someone who outputs less.

The carbon emission is still the same, only someone is now making money off of it. They say it's an incentive to produce less but we all know that big business will just pass the tax on to the consumer somehow.

Mans effect on the climate has not been proven, not even close. The whole 'green' industry is just one big money making scam.

I'm not saying we shouldn't conserve and look for alternative fuels, but once someone starts asking for money you know there's a scam somewhere in there.

Why do all these videos that are supposed to be revealing some big "truth" all sound like their narrated by the same monotone, downtrodden guy?

10 years from now people won't admit they actually "believed" in global warming. It will be too embarrassing.

reply to post by Primordial

There is a scam alright...
Just a taste.
www.matador94.nl...
Cheers.

Reply to post by AllexxisF1

Might wish to deny the ignorance inherent in your own statement sir or ma'am. The temps we are seeing down here especially in Florida is NOT normal or indicative of warming, unless you can come up for with a convoluted excuse as to why it's getting so cold this close to the EQUATOR that somehow affirms MMGW. But then again your obviously not here for reasoned discusion so much as preaching rhetoric and self glorifying riticule against those who disagree with the party lines.


Posted Via ATS Mobile: m.abovetopsecret.com

Originally posted by bigyin
I don't care about any 32'000 scientists. i never heard about them anyway. i'm quiet capable of making my own mind up about it, and I think man made global warming is BS. And I think Cap and Trade is a scam. And I think Al Gore is a conman.

could not agree with you more.... Gore made his money and then some... Cap and Trade is gonna destroy us all along with all the other crappolla that is coming out of the district of criminals

I am one individual who does not believe in AGW (As the theory currently stands), and I am a Scientist. The majority of the papers which I myself have reviewed from field scientists, in no way supports the AGW theory either. Even those researchers who have in fact discovered measurable warming in their particular field-of-study, are completely reluctant to blame any of it on human forcing. Those who jump to AGW claims are sell outs who would rather achieve fame and grant money, as opposed to actually keeping their integrity by performing the tedious experimentation and documentation as dictated by the true scientific process.

There is such a wealth of information out there from completely credible researchers, which refutes many of the AGW claims, that I am honestly surprised at how little of it often makes mainstream level discussions. I once too believed in AGW, and I actually wrote about it as part of a major research project, but once I began to learn more about the processes used to reach these conclusions (As well as how far off many of them were from real world observations over time), the greater my doubt became.

Our Earth is such a complex and fascinating system of immense proportions, and so little of it is yet understood. If we are to ever make gains in our knowledge and understanding of such, then we must keep on progressing forth in scientific investigations (As opposed to political maneuvering, and ulterior agenda driven "findings".). Until we finally caste aside the absurd notions of a "consensus" in relation to AGW however, or the idea that "the debate is over", we will unfortunately never truly be able to make these gains.

Originally posted by grey580
I don't think that anyone is denying climate change.

Climate change happens. We know it happens from fossil records. We know that the planet cools down and heats up. No denying that.

What we are is skeptical of Man Made Global Warming. MMGW is like a cult that alot of people are preaching like it's the second comming. Any sort of criticism evokes alot of teeth gnashing. And that sounds to me like someone is hiding something.

Personally I am very skeptical of MMGW. In my experience no one can predict the weather. And anyone saying they can predict the weather on a global scale is really stretching it IMO.

It's not as much a matter of predictinng the weather, but more of what has happend in the last 150 years...

reply to post by AllexxisF1


It's been a few decades since I attended a class in a University setting, but I know this video would receive a failing grade. Tobacco is unrelated to the topic and only a couple of the claimed 32,000 are even reviewed. It was also produced to mimic a professionally produced documentary which it clearly is not.

Having said that, I agree with those who say nobody is denying climate change. What the real argument is has to do with Cap and Trade.

In the spirit of that documentary, Al Gore is not an expert in anything relating to Climate Change and has a history of misrepresenting facts during his political career. So if that technique of spreading propaganda is OK with you in that Fakeumentary, you should also be very angry at Mr. Gore. Are you I wonder?

My concern is that Cap and Trade, by it's supporters own admission, will drive the costs of energy up significantly. This will automatically drive the cost of food up which is a product where transportation and distribution make up most of the costs. People will die because of this. Perhaps many will die. Even a small increase and this is expected to be a large increase in costs will cause additional starvation worldwide.

It does not help alleviate my concerns after reading the emails that were leaked. What they say is unmistakable and those engaging in the deceptions created the data being used by the UN. Again Mr. Gore is on tape lying about the emails and when they were written.

Is there enough evidence supporting CO2 as the cause of Climate Change to justify further destroying the worlds economies and to justify knowingly causing further starvation and death in poor nations? No, there is not. That leaves me believing that once again we need to follow the money to get to the truth.

We all know that Gore and the banks involved with companies dealing with Carbon Credits will become fabulously wealthy overnight if Cap and Trade passes. We know that Russia, China and India, who will be the true source of excess CO2 in the future have no interest in this. We know the governments instituting Cap and Trade like policies will realize huge sums of money. We also know the technology to replace our current energy sources does not yet exist.

Logic tells me that Obama and the leaders of other nations would be pouring huge sums of money into alternative energy sources and their development if what they say is happening is happening. They however are not doing that. They are throwing meaningless nickels and dimes at clean energy development. I say watch what they do and not what they say is a wise idea in this case.

It is a shame you can so easily be swayed by such a meaningless video from YouTube. Not much critical thinking happening here.

Are you aware that in the late sixties and throughout most of the seventies we were told the opposite? We were told the Earth would cool. We were taught that most if not all trees would be gone by now. We were told most wildlife would be gone by now. We were told the climate would cool by 3 degree Centigrade which would cause most plants to die out. We were told oil would be gone by now. We were told the World could not sustain a population over 5 billion and that hundreds of millions would starve annually by now.

Now the same people and groups are back at the fear mongering for the same illicit reasons being supported by the same illiterates who only care about politics and to whom facts mean little. People who can't even name the Vice President are driving this.

You can fool yourself all you want but this is entirely about money and power and is being spread by people who could care less.

I've stopped taking weekend drives. My home was just upgraded to save energy. I've cut back on travel by plane. Has Gore or Obama done the same? No they have not, in fact Obama has set a new record for travel, spewing CO2 the whole day. Watch what they do, not what they say. If you are wise that is.

Another question I ask myself is do they even have enough data to predict climate change in the future? Could they? These same people who predicted a record Hurricane Season for the US?

Originally posted by Gamma MO
Why do all these videos that are supposed to be revealing some big "truth" all sound like their narrated by the same monotone, downtrodden guy?

10 years from now people won't admit they actually "believed" in global warming. It will be too embarrassing.

------------------------------------------------------------
It's already over. Nobody believes Al Gore anymore.
The truth shall set us free.
The new question in 2010. "Are you a Global Warming Hoax denier?"

Originally posted by bigyin
reply to post by mc_squared

 

I don't need educating. I have listened to experts telling me sea levels will rise for the past 40 years.

They havn't risen at all, so thats a lie.

Yeah you're right - you don't need educating.

Because you have already made up your mind.

And no matter how misinformed you may be you clearly don't need anyone bothering you with annoying things like facts or the truth.

Good luck in life bigyin.

Current sea level rise has occurred at a mean rate of 1.8 mm per year for the past century, and more recently at rates estimated near 2.8 ± 0.4 to 3.1 ± 0.7 mm per year (1993-2003).

en.wikipedia.org...

"You have been punked, owned and just about made a fool of."

You are the fool. So you find a video that suits your beliefs and now its the truth??
You base your theory that MMGW is real because of 2 people in the whole world were proven to mislead the public??

You forget the fact that the scientists for climate change tweak their data to fit their agenda. Is that not misleading the public?? But I'm sure you choose to believe them because they are scientists. Like science has never been wrong. I'm sure you believe in evolution as well. For if you believe in God, then you would realize that He created the heavens and the earth and everything in it. You would then believe that earth can take care of itself. Maybe you should worry about the people you put your trust in, for people in it for the money, cannot be trusted.

I'm not here to try and change your mind, I'm here to tell you that you have been punked, owned and just about made a fool of all by yourself.

Originally posted by arbiture

It's not as much a matter of predictinng the weather, but more of what has happend in the last 150 years...

Alright I can play ball too.

Knowing what happened in the last 150 years does not mean jack in context of Earth history.

If you only studied the last 150 years of climate data you would not be able to make a reasonable conclusion at all. You would be left in the dark bumbling for anything to grab on to.

A more prudent and comprehensive approach would focus on studying the climate data from the last 100,000 years or longer.

This data exists in ice core samples and in the geologic records and can be studied.

This data shows that Earth history has been marked by countless cataclysmic events, many of them weather oriented.

Ever heard of the Ice Ages? Well there was warm periods in between. Climate change is obviously a normal process for a planet.

So essentially, by viewing the weather data of the last 150years, you would have NO IDEA about how the Earth system actually works, and you would not realize how many massive changes have occurred, many of them very rapidly while others took long periods to develop.

Essentially the data shows this, that there is no way for humans to reliably predict the weather due to the fact it can change overnight drastically in unexpected ways.

Krakatoa in Indonesia spit out many times the gases that the entire human race has put out in our entire freaking history, combined.

In fact Krakatoa has spit out so much gas and particles that it surrounded the Earth in a haze for quite a long time. However, this "pollution event" many times greater than the entire impact of human kind combined, did not cause very significant climate change globally.

Think a little, and READ some please.
www.earlham.edu...

Krakatoa (and other super volcanoes) is a perfect example of how massive amounts of pollution react with the Earth climate. And Earth and it's inhabitants have done VERY well considering the context.

Originally posted by Beancounter72
Here are the facts that have convinced me that (manmade) global warming is false.

1) Average global temperatures have not set a new high since 1998 and have shown a clear downward trend since 2007.

Since 2007!!?! WOW.

This is a classic cherry-picked denier misrepresentation of the truth.

2) Analysis of ice core samples used to generate the data used by Al Gore in his Inconvenient Truth movie, consistently show that temperature changes ALWAYS precede changes in CO2 by an average of 700 YEARS. That means that rising temperatures are causing rising CO2 not the other way around.

Nope. Same as above.

3) NASA has confirmed that every other planet in our solar system is getting warmer so there must be a more systemic cause.

You should be noticing a trend by now...

Also here's some reading if you're sick off all that video watching by now.

4)North Pole ice cap is once again growing on a year over year basis as are some glaciers.

Again this is based on cherry picking data to serve an agenda (by comparing against the record setting year of 2007), or otherwise based on complete garbage "science".

5)While large ice flows are indeed breaking off Antarctica, the average depth of ice on the land portion of Antarctica continues to grow.

Ok - so you're admitting there is some evidence of climate change in Antarctica but then pointing to a contradictory statistic as if it automatically disqualifies the first and proves there's not even a debate. Cherry picking's not just for the professionals I guess...

6)Ocean levels have continued to rise at a modest 3mm(1/8th of an inch) per year as they have over the last century.

Wrong again. See the above response to bigyin's post.

7) The world was considerably warmer approx. 1000 years ago. Greenland as called that when Vikings established permanent settlements there because large areas near the coast were ice free for most of the year. Those settlements had to be abandoned when global temperatures declined and grazing/farming land turned to permafrost.

Play us off, Peter Sinclair!

reply to post by AllexxisF1


For crying aloud another one?.....

The only ones who were punked were people like you... Sorry buddy but it has been shown that the main scientists behind the AGW claims WERE SCAMMING YOU.....

Not only that, but we know through some of the REAL scientists who participated in the IPCC reports that there were only about 50-60 scientists who had any real knowledge of Cliamte Change and participated on the IPCC reports... the rest of the thousands of "scientsts experts" had NO KNOWLEDGE WHATSOEVER ON CLIMATE CHANGE.... They were politicians, environmentalists, and in general chosen by their respective countries because they are advocates of the AGW SCAM....

Give it up... Your AGW religion has been proven by science, nature, and even the main AGW scientist proponents to be nothing more than a SCAM and a LIE.....

But hey, keep believing and keep filling the pockets of politicians, and the rich elites meanwhile you keep being punked...

Some stupid video created by another AGW zombie doesn't change the facts...

Originally posted by Kaytagg
It's winter, people.

Haven't you ever heard of the seasons?

Wow... there has been extreme winters for several years now all over the globe, but then again the AGW zombies have to make some claim about it just being winter...

Give it up already... your idols have been shown to be SCAMMERS and you still want to believe them?... You know what that shows?... that AGW is a religion for the likes of you, that's what it shows...

Originally posted by six67seven
"You have been punked, owned and just about made a fool of."

You are the fool. So you find a video that suits your beliefs and now its the truth??
You base your theory that MMGW is real because of 2 people in the whole world were proven to mislead the public??

You forget the fact that the scientists for climate change tweak their data to fit their agenda. Is that not misleading the public?? But I'm sure you choose to believe them because they are scientists. Like science has never been wrong. I'm sure you believe in evolution as well. For if you believe in God, then you would realize that He created the heavens and the earth and everything in it. You would then believe that earth can take care of itself. Maybe you should worry about the people you put your trust in, for people in it for the money, cannot be trusted.

I'm not here to try and change your mind, I'm here to tell you that you have been punked, owned and just about made a fool of all by yourself.

His smoke and mirror video will convince nobody.
Just look at the responses on this thread.

reply to post by muzzleflash


Ever consider that the last 150 years of climate data is important to the MAN MADE global warming debate because of something called the Industrial Revolution?

Also read the whole thread - the ridiculous "you can't predict the weather" argument is irrelevant and has already been addressed.

As for Volcanoes:

Human activities release more than 130 times the amount of CO2 emitted by volcanoes

volcanoes.usgs.gov...

And the haze effect from Volcanic eruptions lasts a few years, not essentially FOREVER like GHG's do.

Originally posted by Kaytagg

Are your opinions grounded in good science, or is this a faith-based initiative?

We leave the "faith basedinitiative for the likes of you".... Even after the leaked emails you people keep "believing" in your AGW religion.... Even after nature has shown you year, after year that the AGW scam is wrong you keep "believing" in your religion..... Even after it has been shown that the AGW scam is being used to implement a One World Government, and to control people those like you keep "believing" in the AGW scam...

If the science was there to show that AGW was real then the AGW main proponents wouldn't have the need to rig the data, hide and even erase evidence etc, etc...

The worse thing is after a week that it was found out about the leaked emails then we learned that your idols ERASED most of the raw data for the last 150 years.... But you keep "believing" in the AGW scam?....

It is obvious who is basing their opinions on "faith" and not science....

reply to post by Eurisko2012


"Smoke & mirror video"??

LOL

Wow you guys really can't handle being shown when you're wrong. Why don't you just blame it on "the work of the Devil" while you're at it...