Communism vs Democracy.

I am not sure if this has been discussed, but I would like to know what the members believe is the most viable form of goverment, if not these two, then possibly another alternative, per sa, Anarcho-Capatalism, Liberalism, Anarchism, Socialism.

Deep

The straight and skinny of it, is that communism simply wont work because of no motivation. The janitor gets just as much as a nuclear physicist. The construction worker gets just as much as a homeless bum. No one will want to work, because there is no personal gain is working harder.

Democracy will not work in large numbers. If the US was a true democracy, we'd have to all convene together for any small thing. If nebraska (is this a real state? ) wanted to pass a law prohibiting drinking with pigs, we'd ALL have to attend, or send represntatives to attend. Total waste of time. In small numbers, like the greek city states, democracy works.

In short, I would reccomend whatever works the best. Maybe we should elect Arnold Swarzchenagger as our world leader. Swarzchenaggerism rules!

Originally posted by ZeroDeep
I am not sure if this has been discussed, but I would like to know what the members believe is the most viable form of goverment, if not these two, then possibly another alternative, per sa, Anarcho-Capatalism, Liberalism, Anarchism, Socialism.

Deep

Well, communism might be a nice idea, but it could and never will happen, so that's out already.

As for democracy, it's nice as long as people don't finger # it or micromanage it too much.

I think a democracy is the best, although our democratic republic could use a swift kick towards real democracy.

Nothing specific, just some thoughts.

The lust for power and the drive of greed, which is apparent in man, harms both systems.

WAKE UP PEOPLE!! WE DONT LIVE IN A DEMOCRACY!! WE LIVE IN A CONSTITUTIONAL REPUBLIC - ALOT LIKE ROME...go figure....hail cease...I mean Bush....

Anarchism, but then again that isn't much of a government to begin with. It is just everyone taking complete responcibility for their own actions and the consequences of those actions. Ya, that'll happen!

the true form of communism would aim to empower its citizens as much as possible. the most effective way to do this is to make government accountable to the people and ensure the masses have some form of role in the decision making process. consequently, true communism requires democracy.

"the root of socialism is democracy; and only a society which is truly democratic could also become truly socialist" (tony benn)

Perhaps one of the greatest and most influential thinkers of all time, Socrates, Tells us that the ultimate form of government would be that of The Benevolent Dictator. He further says that politicians should be raised from birth to lead. Socrates lived under the World's first Democracy. He noted the corruption inherent in the system as it is with every beaurocracy, another Greek invention. Beaurocracy has as a precept; self perpetuation. Once a person, party, or state has attained a position of power, they will try to move Heaven and Earth to maintain that exhualted position. The idea of the Benevolent Dictator comes with many presuppositions. That said Dictator be indoctrinated with the strict moral/philisophical code of Natural law being the primary precept. If this leader were to be immovable from his/her mission to actually serve the greater good of the people, the efficiency and success of such a system would be beyond doubt. Socrates understood that there would never actually be such a system, at least not in any long-term senario. People are too corrupt for such an ideal to work. Of course it is this very corruptness of humanity that neccessitates government in the first place. If all people actually acted in the best interest of all members of society, Anarchy, then there would be no need of Government.

Face it. We're fuhked!

Originally posted by Arcadian
WAKE UP PEOPLE!! WE DONT LIVE IN A DEMOCRACY!! WE LIVE IN A CONSTITUTIONAL REPUBLIC - ALOT LIKE ROME...go figure....hail cease...I mean Bush....

Well, actually, we are supposed to be in a republican form of government, but we haven't been; not since the Civil Police Action they call the Civil War. Ever since, we've been using the defective democracy idea, which is nothing more than mob rule dictating who will control the martial rule.

Originally posted by Jonna
Anarchism, but then again that isn't much of a government to begin with. It is just everyone taking complete responcibility for their own actions and the consequences of those actions. Ya, that'll happen!

I agree totally with Jonna. It's sad really that most people have no idea what TRUE anarchy is. They think it's just citizens running wild in the streets doing whatever they please. Just not so.

But failing that, I would have to say somewhere in the middle between capitolism and communism. As Omniubi has already said, there's no motivation to do better with communism as the model, but the same goes for capitolism as well. People who have to make a living off minimum wage work will understand this. There is no motivation to do better because you KNOW that ultimately you will not reap the rewards of a businesses success.

And for the record just in case anyone wants to flame me for my reply. My work ethic is solid regardless. I was always raised to do EVERYTHING to the best of your ability, and that if a job is worth doing, it's worth doing well and I've always adhered to that ideal...even in minimum wage work. It makes ME feel good. I don't do it for the employer, I do it for me.

Originally posted by KayEm
People who have to make a living off minimum wage work will understand this. There is no motivation to do better because you KNOW that ultimately you will not reap the rewards of a businesses success.

And for the record just in case anyone wants to flame me for my reply. My work ethic is solid regardless. I was always raised to do EVERYTHING to the best of your ability, and that if a job is worth doing, it's worth doing well and I've always adhered to that ideal...even in minimum wage work. It makes ME feel good. I don't do it for the employer, I do it for me.

I applaud your assertion of a solid work ethic but I am puzzled about your prior statement about minimum wage workers having no future.

First of all, some people will never break out of low wage slavery because they are just plain stupid, lazy, or have zero ambition. Secondly, People have choices, no matter how limited they may be. Exceptional performance combined with ambition, desire, and dedication will almost surely lead to promotion, higher wages, and increased responsibility. I personaly have started at the bottom of the ladder in more than one occupation. I have consistently been advanced in both pay and responsibility in every job that I have ever held. I have since desided that working for someone else was a dead-end road for me. I have been self-employed for three and a half years now and I have no intention of ever looking back.

No one gets a promotion without working for it. Let's ignore the privileged elite for now. Self defeatest attitudes like yours will reap just what you expect. If you want something in life, GO DO WHATEVER YOU HAVE TO DO(within the limits of the law)TO ATTAIN YOUR DESIRES.

By societal terms, I am not a wealthy man. In my own terms I have grand wealth and I am always growing . I have a dedicated wife who loves and supports me. I have friends and family whom I would die for and I feel confident that they would do the same for me. I have a young and growing business and I have set limits upon myself such that I do not work myself to death. What makes me unhappy is the vicious nature of so...many people, groups, and governments that exploit people and resourses to the detriment of all else. I honestly believe that our World is doomed, but I cannot live day-to-day without at least trying to make things better, for myself and those around me.

I have read many of your posts and I am confident that you probably share more of the Hope in this message than you let-on. We can help to make this a better World. I am a cynic through and through, but I cannot let go of all Hope. To do so is to die from the inside. YOU have inspired me to respond, to act. Please take solice in that at least.

edited spelling

[Edited on 25-5-2004 by scottsquared]

The US' style of "democracy" is like a sick communism, brainwashing the mass public, with few knowing. Our government also has so much power from such.

Scott,

We have agreed and disagreed on various topics and I have always respected your posts as well, because you state what you mean and don't attack the other poster.

That said. I have to say that I do feel you are wrong here. I totally believe in working hard. I don't deny that doing your best at the end of the day is not only the best for your employer, but also for YOU, because it does your soul GOOD.

But..I am 40 years old here and I can honestly say (I am not posting here simply out of emotion in other words) that your garden variety corporation does NOT give a flying frogs BUTT about the working drones life or opinion. AT. All.

Take myself for instance. I am one of those rare ones that actually ENJOYS feedback from my employer. IE. I like /want/NEED) to hear that I am doing well and that everybody loves me. Don't get me wrong. I KNOW that I do a good job, but I need to hear somebody ELSE say so, in order that I know I am being appreciated.

And sadly, this is few and far between, most often I hear what i'm doing wrong and it's usual trivial # (such as there is a piece of dust that you missed, or something twisted like that).

Now, I have to ask you, Scott. Is THIS right ? to treat the people who slave for you on a daily basis with the best intentions and the hardest work, to gain absolutely nothing ?

Where would you richies be ? If everybody left these menial service jobs there would be nobody to prepare you your 5 dollar sandwich.

Think of this please, the next time you impugn minimum wage workers. Who essentially work HARDER then anybody else.

I favor democracy. And, I don't have a problem with the way it is practiced in the US. The two party system kinda sucks but it could be worse. We could all be bowing to a tyrannical king or queen with no elected representation.

Does it really matter though, whether they are elected ?

I don't know. I lived in England for a while as a US citizen and I can honestly say that they are both exactly the same thing.

Essentially painted in different colours.

Paint it anyway you want. It's still the same thing. That's just another way TPTB continue to fool us.

True democracy involves a gathering of everyone to partake in law-making as stated by another member before, which yes, is quite complicated with populations soaring over a 100 million.

I have not made up my mind to be quite honest and sad to say lack the proper education yet. I was curious to read members bias's on the subject.

Deep

communism is for lazy people who dont want to work but still want to make the same as a person who buts his or her ass day in and day out.

Originally posted by KrazyJethro





I think a democracy is the best, although our democratic republic could use a swift kick towards real democracy.

it would take for ever to get things vote on that way, although it probally would be the best way

Originally posted by KrazyIvan
communism is for lazy people who dont want to work but still want to make the same as a person who buts his or her ass day in and day out.

Horse-#

Communism is for hard working people who are tired of doing ALL the work and losing bodily limbs without medical care being provided to deal with the pain. I can't believe you would say such an insensitive thing Kraz. I really can't. I've liked you and your posts from the get-go. But I can't believe you would say such insults against the majority of our population.

Absolutely Right! No arguments there, I misspoke in my own ignorance of The Corporate World. My Wife works Corporate and she couldn't agree with you more. I have always loathed and despised Beaurocratic organizations of every stripe, how I spent any time in uniform I'll never know.

I would never trivialize the inequities suffered the worker. There is no denying that working for an employer is sufferage at the least. That said, I think it of utmost importance to have some pride and enjoyment in our vocation, for our own sanity; please!!

Don't we have to take some responsability in our own destinies? I've had a few sh*ty jobs in my day too. I learned my job, then I learned my boss's job, then I Had my boss's job.

I know that I was truely blessed having been raised in a family culture that stressed education as a virtue. I know that I will always support education and bemoan the facts of our underfunded schools and uneaqual access to all cititzens.

Still, I can't help feeling that deserving souls will rise above the masses. Sometimes we could use a hand up. Sometimes we need to take advantage of a situation. Sometimes we're actually recognised for our accomplishments.

I have enjoyed our exchange of ideology,

Shalom