Brace yourself ATS for the truth about Iraq (EXPOSED!)

great of you to post. hope you stay safe.

reply to post by chillpill


I say it's time we stopped compromising the most basic of moral precepts, and stopped doing business with thugs, especially of the Islamic kind.

I say we pull out of Iraq and pull out of the oil economy altogether. There are already a number of technologically viable replacements, even without declassifying some of the exotic stuff.

For example ever since the late 50s there has been a design for thorium nuclear reactors, that could power up America for thousands of years, offer no meltdown risk and produces almost no radioactive waste.

thoriumenergy.blogspot.com...

Let the creepy oil companies and their creepy jihadists friends squirm, when pull out the magic rug on allah's treasure chest.

Originally posted by Stop-loss!
reply to post by zazzafrazz

 

Im willing to risk anything if it means that we are closer to world peace. no price is too high to help others where it counts but thanks again for your help. peace

Livign in peace with our fellow man is not in our genetics. People like to think we humans are a peacful species but all you need to do is look at our history and our presnt to see the opposite is true. World peace is a nobel goal but we need to keep in mind it is an unatainable one. That isn't what we are. We are an enigmatic species. We have many drives which in direct contradiction of each other. This is why many experts like to refer to us as the insane great ape. This isn't a bad thing since it is how we have managed to survive this long. We are all challeneged to keep our violent nature in check and for many of us it is extremely difficult. Stay safe and keep seeking the truth.

[edit on 1/12/2010 by norman619]

Originally posted by johnny2127

Originally posted by EvolvedMinistry

Originally posted by johnny2127

Originally posted by EvolvedMinistry

Originally posted by jackflap
reply to post by EvolvedMinistry

 

You're absolutely right EvolvedMinistry. Thanks for steering me in the right direction. I will take your advice. Thanks again.

No problem, if nothing else, I find this to be a very interesting thread with many people posting their thoughts who are waking up to the agendas of the wealthy. Stop Loss's thread has been very beneficial.

Do you really think the wealthy have some sinister agenda?

Do you mean other than staying wealthy? There does not have to be a conspiracy with that, its just the natural order and flow of things. This has been going on since the inception of trade and currency, therefore, to consider it sinister would be over complicating the design. The rich stay rich by subjugating the poor. That's about all the more sinister that it gets. And you???

That's just my opinion.

[edit on 12-1-2010 by EvolvedMinistry]

I think most wealthy have no agenda and no desire to subjugate and use the poor. But I also think that some are very power hungry and greedy. I know many many wealthy people, most of which are exceptionally giving and humble. Some are not, and are jerks. The most reckless wealthy are usually those that are 2+ generations removed from the original creation of the wealth. But these people usually just destroy the wealth, and not anything sinister.

From my experience, the most dangerous and hateful people are those that are unhappy with their plight in life and/or how their life has turned out, and cannot bring themselves to be accountable for where they are. So they seek to blame everything on one person, or group, or socio-economic class. These have been the people that usually are the ones creating social unrest, crime, and misery. They rile up the ignorant to their ideals and beliefs and create an army of ignorance out for blood.

I guess I was more or less addressing the wealthy who are politically connected or motivated. I would agree that there are probably many rich/wealthy people who have no other agenda than just living their lives. However, the one's that are connected with "certain" corporations, or the one's that help oversee policy are the one's to be concerned with. That being said, I still don't attribute it so much to conspiracy as I attribute it to maintaining their way of life and perpetuating a cycle that ensures their dominance.

Originally posted by norman619

Originally posted by Stop-loss!
reply to post by zazzafrazz

 

Im willing to risk anything if it means that we are closer to world peace. no price is too high to help others where it counts but thanks again for your help. peace

Livign in peace with our fellow man is not in our genetics. People like to think we humans are a peacful species but all you need to do is look at our history and our presnt to see the opposite is true. World peace is a nobel goal but we need to keep in mind it is an unatainable one. That isn't what we are. We are an enigmatic species. We have many drives which in direct contradiction of each other. This is why many experts like to refer to us as the insane great ape. This isn't a bad thing since it is how we have managed to survive this long. We are all challeneged to keep our violent nature in check and for many of us it is extremely difficult. Stay safe and keep seeking the truth.

[edit on 1/12/2010 by norman619]

I agree with much that you have to say, but, I still think that violence is a choice and its not something that we are necessarily destined to choose. People can live in peace, however, with the current power structure in place, this won't be something that we will see anytime soon.

haha you had to go there and take some pics to realize this? Everyone in the world with half a brain knew this since 2003, looks like the OP just got very late to the party...

Originally posted by EvolvedMinistry

I guess I was more or less addressing the wealthy who are politically connected or motivated. I would agree that there are probably many rich/wealthy people who have no other agenda than just living their lives. However, the one's that are connected with "certain" corporations, or the one's that help oversee policy are the one's to be concerned with. That being said, I still don't attribute it so much to conspiracy as I attribute it to maintaining their way of life and perpetuating a cycle that ensures their dominance.

Ya I am sure some of that is true. Although in every socio-economic class you are going to have criminals and low life. Wealthy or poor, good are or bad. There will always be slime. From the Bernie Madoff's to the drug deals and human traffickers. Sadly, there is a dark side to human nature, and no mature how much money or power someone does or doesn't have, that won't change.

Originally posted by spartan1337
haha you had to go there and take some pics to realize this? Everyone in the world with half a brain knew this since 2003, looks like the OP just got very late to the party...

Note: See all the flags and stars this thread has received in such a short amount of time? SL is obviously not the only one just waking-up to acknowledging the masquerade. Many of us have been brewing in these dark waters for years now, we have to be patient/understanding with those who catch on later. We are all in this boat together, after all.

reply to post by The Blind Eye


Very true Blind eye. If I always listened to my leaders saying that we are here to make Iraqis life better instead of doing some research, then I would be just like the sheep that I constantly see here in the fields. If I would have known about this site a long time ago, all I would need is the pics I took from my last deployment to show why we really are here. Zeitgiest helped me awaken from my long cold slumber in some ways.

Originally posted by franspeakfree


The truth is, the invasion of Afghanistan and Iraq was for not just the oil, but the artifacts,archeology and of course the opium.


[edit on 10-1-2010 by franspeakfree]

You can't really compare Iraq and Afghanistan, simply because they're two different wars. Did they go to Iraq for oil? sure. However Afghanistan was a result of 9/11 and the dangers that came from that region. Unfortunately the major targets fled Afghanistan years ago, and now they're forced to clean up the mess they created.

Originally posted by Stop-loss!
reply to post by The Blind Eye

 

Very true Blind eye. If I always listened to my leaders saying that we are here to make Iraqis life better instead of doing some research, then I would be just like the sheep that I constantly see here in the fields. If I would have known about this site a long time ago, all I would need is the pics I took from my last deployment to show why we really are here. Zeitgiest helped me awaken from my long cold slumber in some ways.

If this is how you feel, you have violated the oath you took and should be dishonorably discharged and possibly court-martialed.

reply to post by johnny2127


Its kind of useless to do so since im getting out soon. Like you said earlier, non of it is really top secret since im not violating OPSEC. Remember: no times, no names,no Specific locations, no shame. Unless you want to add the times on the first few pics then you got me.

Originally posted by Stop-loss!
reply to post by johnny2127

 

Its kind of useless to do so since im getting out soon. Like you said earlier, non of it is really top secret since im not violating OPSEC. Remember: no times, no names,no Specific locations, no shame. Unless you want to add the times on the first few pics then you got me.

I wasn't saying posting the pics and activities was something to dishonorably discharge you for. But calling your fellow soldiers sheep, saying you don't follow your commander's orders and saying Zeitgeist is what you follow now...... all are against the oath you took buddy. And those of us that served, take that oath and the bond between servicemen very seriously. Put put their life in your hands and you belittle them and their service.

reply to post by johnny2127


I am truly sorry if you though I was talking about the soldiers. I meant sheep as in livestock that I would be like them. I like my fellow soldiers but the reason that they are in the army is the same as me. We thought that we were making a difference here but as time goes by that feeling just seems to vanish into thin air.

Originally posted by Stop-loss!
reply to post by johnny2127

 

I am truly sorry if you though I was talking about the soldiers. I meant sheep as in livestock that I would be like them. I like my fellow soldiers but the reason that they are in the army is the same as me. We thought that we were making a difference here but as time goes by that feeling just seems to vanish into thin air.

Most disagree with you. Nearly all I talk to think what they are doing are did while in Iraq was very good. Most people do not realize that most of the servicemen are not fighting. They are building schools, hospitals, power plants, roads, bridges, more infrastructure, etc. I have seen countless pictures of soldiers with Iraqi friends they have made that are close to them as any they have in the US.

I appreciate your service if you are still following your orders and doing your job. And it is your right to have whatever opinion you want to. But I would argue you should probably wait to say alot of what you have until after you are out of the service. The military take anything approaching subservience very seriously. And you bad mouthing your leaders, calling your fellow soldiers sheep and saying you follow Zeitgeist will raise some huge red flags against you.

I hope you change your mind, and feel differently about your service to your nation and the good things done in Iraq.

reply to post by johnny2127


I dont doubt that we are doing good things in this country, but when the death toll is as high as it is now then when do we draw the line and say what went wrong and what can we do to fix it?

Originally posted by Stop-loss!
reply to post by johnny2127

 

I dont doubt that we are doing good things in this country, but when the death toll is as high as it is now then when do we draw the line and say what went wrong and what can we do to fix it?

I think that depends on your lens and what happens in the future. If the country ends up stable and democracy flourishes and spreads to other countries, more lives will be saved and enlightened than what have been tragically lost. If we leave and country falls back into tyranny, than it will mostly be a waste of lives and resources.

reply to post by johnny2127


Isn't that how Vietnam ended up? I could be wrong but we might be here much longer then how Vietnam ended up. Now you were right about how there is less combat in Iraq today compared to years ago and I agree that we are rebuilding Iraq for the better. Back then when I was getting shot at I wondered what we did to piss them off if were here to free them from oppresion but maybe they saw us as the oppresors.

Originally posted by Stop-loss!
reply to post by johnny2127

 

Isn't that how Vietnam ended up? I could be wrong but we might be here much longer then how Vietnam ended up. Now you were right about how there is less combat in Iraq today compared to years ago and I agree that we are rebuilding Iraq for the better. Back then when I was getting shot at I wondered what we did to piss them off if were here to free them from oppresion but maybe they saw us as the oppresors.

Well Vietnam had its own lessons and issues. Hopefully we have learned from that. However, it is important to point out that we have already made more progress in Iraq than we ever did in Vietnam by a long shot.

In terms of why those people were shooting at you, there is no one answer. Some felt betrayed rightfully from Gulf War 1, when they greeted us with open arms and openly rebelled against Saddam, only to have Bush Sr leave them high and dry. Some were Baathist loyalists still fighting. Some would oppose any Americans on their soil. Some view us as oppressors. Some view it as a religious war. Point is, there are many reasons for those that fired on your and the other soldiers, but they all had the same enemy. Hopefully as the hostilities wind down, some hearts and minds will be won over. but some will always hate America no matter what we do. There were those in Germany fighting and shooting Americans 20 years after WWII ended.

So I would ask you to consider things from a longer lens. From a bigger picture. We do not know as yet what will happen in Iraq. But there is a good chance that a hundred or two hundred years from now, the job you and other servicemen have done, could literally transform a region and save millions of lives.

reply to post by johnny2127


I guess your right. I have seen some improvements here in Iraq compared to all those years ago and its time to make changes happen. As far as the Iraqi pics, I guess I can just chill on those and instead show people just how poor these people are living and could use some serious help. Thanks for helping me with my atonement.