Internet & The Information Crisis

Originally posted by DizzyDayDream
I would personally like to apologise, for my participation in a recent thread, where i didn't aproach certain peices of information presented to me in a way i would normally expect myself to

And Id like to apologize for many hundreds of instances where Ive been mistaken or conned into believing something.

Being ignorant is not the worst part, thats human. Thats forgivable. The worst part is force-feeding it to others.

Originally posted by Hithe Merinos
This is what i try to keep in my mind when i make a post or a new thread. How well i`m doing this i wouldn`t know, but i`m trying with my best intentions, and many of us here are doing the same i have noticed, and that is a very positive thing, in many of the different opinions and it`s uniqueness.

The positive intentions behind your threads has not gone unnoticed. Liked them a lot.

Originally posted by jsettica
We all live in our own realities and with that comes different types of truths.

There is truth in every thing that is said for no mater how out there it is, it has happened in someones in another life and it just resurfaces in this one.

What does this mean though? The idea that every opinion is equally true does not apply to objective scientific research imo - try applying that to 9/11 or WWII for example.

Or to quote the poster masqua:

Because dousing yourself with gasoline and lighting a match is dangerous.

Because walking on thin ice is treacherous.

Because teasing a rattler can cause discomfort in the extreme.

The above are truths.

[edit on 11-1-2010 by Skyfloating]

Originally posted by masqua

People are NOT stupid (for the most part) and will be deciding for themselves what to believe and what not to.

Humans not being stupid: As Humanity is becoming of age, this applies. Seeing as History has been one of mutual slaughter I dont think it has applied up to now.

We do it from our earliest days on because tricks are played on us all for the fun of it. It's part of the learning process, just like kittens play fighting. It's important later on in life.

Interesting statement - through tricks being played on my I mature mentally to learn to discern.

Originally posted by TranscendencyNow
Anyway, I just thought it was kind of funny, and we essentially have an entire system (the internet) filled with people like this.

I remember that Twilight Zone Episode


Anyway - the observation of having an entire system with people who think they are "in the know" is a good one.

If they get too confident, they lack the humility to learn anything new.

[edit on 11-1-2010 by Skyfloating]

Originally posted by Dagar

so... the question then becomes. Whose truth

Two examples:

Example one:
Talk to an Israeli about Gaza ... hear their truth as they see it
Talk to a Palestinian about Gaza ... hear their truth as they see it.

Which version of the truth is the truth... Their positions will mostly be diametrically opposed. They can't BOTH be telling the truth, can they?...

Well, From their point of view they are. The Israeli will tell you the Palestinian is telling lies and spouting propaganda, and vice versa... the Palestinian will accuse the Israeli of the same thing.

So where is the truth?...

As unpopular as it is, I`ll say neither. The idea being that any idea that leads to prolonged Violence and Demonization, is untrue.

Or put differently: If two sides fight for a long time, its probably because they are both wrong.

Originally posted by pumpkinorange
This is a question bred from the couch in the age of television. IMHO, the posing of the topic suggests a yearning for a bridge from the tv age into the Internet Age that would carry along with it some trusted someone or something who could order it all for us in network fashion: i.e. here's the "real" news and here's the "Entertainment".

Having never been a TV-Watcher, I cant relate. Ive been a reader of books throughout my life though. And that brings us to what this poster says:

Originally posted by thebulldog
Books require more vetting then a blog but they too are, as said, fallible. To claim a report or professional journal or history book or what have you is more trustworthy of accepting without question then an essay or report posted here is not, in my oppinion, valid.

A non-fiction book goes through several reality-checks before reaching the public eye. Friends and Family might view it. It might be peer-reviewed. It will be looked at by a literary agent. Then by a publisher.

A Blog is not restricted by any of these. The advantages of this are obvious. But to say that Blogsphere is probably just as factual as Booksphere might be an exaggeration.

Originally posted by lo_fye
Ok, so how do we get more experts online?
We need to become experts ourselves, in narrow fields.
Then we need to be active on the net, verifying things in our field.
This is definitely not easy -- there is no easy fix for the information deluge we're in... but I think the best next step is taking personal responsibility.

I quoted this because its a very interesting thought to me. The Internet will ultimately force us to become more expert in everything. And thats a good thing.

Originally posted by GoFigure52
Everyone has there own perspective of there reality.

Does it really matter. Its all an illusion anyway.

If it doesnt matter to you, what does?

Originally posted by HunkaHunka
1. Never have more respect for any author than you do yourself.

Im ambivalent on this one. Its important to have enough self-confidence not to worship anyone who has a PHD or some other Badge of Authority. Its important not to suspend critical thinking just because someone appears to be an expert. On the other hand, isnt it a good thng to give people, who have studied and researched something for a long time some due respect and appreciation rather than thinking I know everything better than them?

Originally posted by serbsta
Believe those who are seeking the truth; doubt those who find it.

What a gem.

So if it doesn't exist, why should it be important? That's my question to you Sky.

I think truth exists and that it is important for survival.

Originally posted by m0r1arty
For me everything comes down to a judgement call. We've all got agendas and we're all trying to sift through everyone else's agendas to give value to our own.

With the dawn of the internet came the great gold rush of attention deprived intellectual property. There are more stories now than there are people on the planet. Some of these stories are flavoured with 'absolute' facts for certain tastes, others are peppered with nuggets of 'relevant' facts which support the hegemonic establishment.

Wow - post starred.

The paradigm shift in our understanding of truth will occur once we've exhausted all avenues of thought and are left with recycling all our old garbage. The nuggets will get checked against the flavours and anything which holds up will be accepted as truth.

Whatever still survives in the end, is true. Nature takes care of seperating wheat from chaff I guess.

In a way, the Internet is useless, because all it really does is simulate the chaos and complexity of the real world, just in a way that makes distance irrelevant.

reply to post by Donnie Darko


In a way yes. But the internet promotes dialogue, which in turns promotes conflict which promotes resolution.

It's through this that we achieve patience, tolerance and understanding. It's through this we assist those less able, highlight the charlatans and promote an ever evolving social justice.

It's not pretty, but it beats being a salmon.

-m0r

Originally posted by m0r1arty
reply to post by Donnie Darko

 

In a way yes. But the internet promotes dialogue, which in turns promotes conflict which promotes resolution.

It's through this that we achieve patience, tolerance and understanding. It's through this we assist those less able, highlight the charlatans and promote an ever evolving social justice.

It's not pretty, but it beats being a salmon.

-m0r

Agreed.

Good thing about the internet is that you can check out if something that you have just read "holds water" by comparing it with other multiple sources on the given subject. All you need is a little spare time and will to do it. You can`t do this with television, radio, newspapers etc...

Thing that worries me is that there is many lazy people who don`t bother themselves with a little investigation, and just take things for granted as they reed it. I like reading comments on videos i watch on youtube, and sometimes it`s hilarious how many people get hooked up on all kinds of stupidity, and they get scared to. They don`t bother themselves by checking is it true or not...

On thing I know for sure is that a significant amount of the users online here cannot spot viral marketing when it happens. This is odd because they pride themselves on seeing through scam and conspiracy.

reply to post by Skyfloating

Originally posted by lo_fye
Ok, so how do we get more experts online?
We need to become experts ourselves, in narrow fields.
Then we need to be active on the net, verifying things in our field.
This is definitely not easy -- there is no easy fix for the information deluge we're in... but I think the best next step is taking personal responsibility.

I quoted this because its a very interesting thought to me. The Internet will ultimately force us to become more expert in everything. And thats a good thing.

I was surfing the net yesterday after reading this thread and found 2 videos which many of you have already seen, but thought to post them here to see what can happen in the long run if you don`t have good BS filters.

Here`s the first video
Information Overload



OK, now after you watched the first video, i found the next video expressing how some of the people are receiving it.... by small bits pieces and information fragments just like in the next video, if you can`t make yourself watch the video in full you get the point just by watching the first 30 seconds of it

visual essay (information overload)


....and all the above which can lead to this

Listen closely what this guy has to say.
(It`s not the message, but WHAT he is saying)

Where should americans flee to escape Martial Law?


Now,
I do not want to make fun of the guy in the last video, but to me it was hilarious (maybe because of the Ali G-esque accent and the backround music, but it also made me think, how many people are viewing that and taking his videos seriously, that is filled with half truths and fear propaganda?

I think the information overflow and not having good "junk filters" can be dangerous to some.

So i do not know, do we really need such experts as the guy in the last vid? Being an expert needs a HUGE amount of responsibility in what you are saying.

PS!
I posted the videos because i can`t express myself by writing well enough and the pictures say`s a thousand word`s And i wish we could have live talk`s with each other, cos i can express my self better verbally
(is there some place we could do that- skype maybe?)

And this thread here is starting go get way over my head, just tell me when i start to derail.

Still a very interesting subject.

I think you expressed yourself very well, and thanks for the videos.

Originally posted by Hithe Merinos
...how many people are viewing that and taking his videos seriously, that is filled with half truths and fear propaganda?

This isn't a question of the information itself but rather what people want to see and hear.

Children like fairytales and he is a teller of tall tales.

Santa doesn't exist and only a foolish adult would say he does however we all accept that tales of questionable content occur around us at all times and we allow it for fear of imposing our truths upon others.

To me he is nothing more than a priest, a salesman or an elected official. Sadly though these people can amass huge amounts of followers and become dangerous.

People want to hear their delusions reinforced and will find a way to do so no matter what. We have no chance of correcting our generation and putting them onto a more even path.

We can however educate our children and provide them with the skills required to think critically and reason for themselves. They will fail as every generation before us has but they will make the world that little bit better for their children. And so they cycle continues.

-m0r

The real problem is "Television and The Information Crisis". The internet is the solution because people have learned to be skeptical of information instead of just believing everything that claims to be "news".

Originally posted by Skyfloating

Originally posted by HunkaHunka
1. Never have more respect for any author than you do yourself.

Im ambivalent on this one. Its important to have enough self-confidence not to worship anyone who has a PHD or some other Badge of Authority. Its important not to suspend critical thinking just because someone appears to be an expert. On the other hand, isnt it a good thng to give people, who have studied and researched something for a long time some due respect and appreciation rather than thinking I know everything better than them?

Well that's where the rest of the rules come into play...

1. Never have more respect for any author than you do yourself.

2. Never believe that you have found the absolute truth, but seek it diligently.

3. Always understand that everyone, including yourself, could be completely wrong.

4. Seek first to understand the motive before you attempt to understand the message.

The best we can do is deal with what Hegel calls "workable truth", knowing that it's probably wrong in it's detail though it works for the current situation.

When it comes to someone who "should know what they are talking about", we shouldn't allow the concept of being an authority on a subject to blind us to the fact that they are just as human as we are. Also, use experience with their previous data points to determine the efficacy and validity based on past experience.

reply to post by Hithe Merinos


Nice post. The "expert" is hilarious. Welcome to journalism of the 21st Century.

Info Overload leads to a state of psychological overwhelm in which someone becomes more inert, docile, unquestioning. This begins by free choice. I expose myself to all of this by free choice. But as time goes by, the Internet-Age teaches that gathering loads of information is more important than anything else, and Im like a tea-cup forever overflowing, ever enjoying a sip.