HIV cure = good nutrition?! (Video)

Many of you mention that such a diet will "strengthen the immune system," and I was wondering exactly what you meant by that. Does it increase T-cell count, or improve the specific antigen recognition? I am very interested in this topic and was wondering if you have more information.

reply to post by Bene Tleliax

There are three kinds of HIV/Aids denialists
1. This group says Aids/HIV simply doesn't exist
2. This group admits HIV may be one contributing factor to Aids
3. This group admits that HIV causes Aids, but it sticks to dated information on singular dosage AZT, and thereby claims that ARVS are toxic, and Aids can be treated with common food-stuffs

It is one thing to say that poverty and a bad diet compound the conditions of Aids, but quite another to say that nutrition causes Aids and can somehow reverse it.
There is no magic food that can prevent or reverse Aids. There is also no food that can make an HIV-positive person HIV-negative.
In fact, people with Aids suffer from wasting, and can hardly keep down any food at all. Eating becomes painful and useless, because the whole digestive tract and mouth becomes covered with cottage-cheese-like thrush.
We've had Dutch eccentrics telling us to stick garlic cloves in our vaginas and rectums, and that we should drink a mixture of cereal, lemon juice, olive leaf, African potato and beetroot. The people who did this died.
One could try this with the medicine, but catching the right time to start is crucial.
I've read in the above book by Kerry Cullinan how the main SA dissident Anthony Brink aligned himself with various denialist factions. He had a case against a pharmaceutical firm for killing his former client (he's an advocate). Then it turned out his client had a CD4 count of about 70, and took ARVS. However, he took one month's treatment over two months. Despite this he thrived and began gaining weight. Then, he suddenly stopped taking them and died. The case was thrown out of court.
The denialists and their financial scams are an interesting bunch, and I love hearing their tales. However, I cannot be silent and let people read such threads without an opposing view. It could cost a life, and the whole discussion here is a bit unethical - but that's just my take on things.

Halfoldman.

Funny you should mention www.aidstruth.org - who are linked to TAC (Treatment Action Campaign) in South Africa.

Now I have their annual audit and report for 2008. Now would you fill in the blanks for me? - Where is the funding coming from?

Follow the money - that argument is not only working towards quackery - but also the other way.

www.cwbpi.com...

What do yo consider a "successful treatment"? - and why do you use "milk thistle"? when you don't believe that ARV is toxic to your liver?

And let alone that you're talking about www.aidstruth.org, who is run by a physician - who have no relation to HIV/AIDS at all - talking about being non scientific.

But good for you to praise ARVs, I have seen the exact opposite that you have - people being unable to perform the simplest tasks, while on ARVs - once they dropped them - they got better immediately, so now explain to me why your experience is more truthful than mine.

And what does AIDS status have to do with this? - If you are fine with ARVs more power to you - but remember - what works for you might be other peoples poison.

And strangely enough - concerning putting stuff somewhere - I recall an experiment of certain gp120 smeared somewhere on a monkey. So the idea might not be that novel afterall - since they even publish it.

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov...

Well if the whole case was clearcut - there would be no denialists.

I just say that the whole thing is way too complex to have a single solution either in form of pills or single nutritional items.

Which again is why I think the most important thing to do is giving people the chance to decide for themselves, and draw their own experiences. Remember AIDS is a SYNDROME - an umbrella of diseases - so while nutrition might look funny to you, because of wasting - others have different symptoms - and have no problem eating. The whole thing just is not CLEARCUT.

[edit on 13-2-2010 by Angeldust1199]

reply to post by Angeldust1199

Your first link is not to the TAC (Treatment Action Campaign) in SA at all, but something called the Tratment Action Group (TAG). If you have information directly linking the TAC to the payrolls of pharmaceutical firms (whom they fought tooth and nail for affordable treatment) then please pass it on to me so that I can get their response. So far it's just another unsubstantiated claim by the denialists, although locally it hasn't been made for a while. It appears the denialist circus is over for now, and the support for it I do still see is from outside SA.
The Aids denialist Anthony Brink formed the TIG (Treatment Information Group), and for periods he was on the payroll of the Rath foundation with its killer vitamin regime and scam.
Medicines can certainly be taken anally (I would advise against putting garlic there - ouch). However the quack Tine van der Maas (also partly sponsored by the the Rath foundation and salesperson for the "African Solutions" concoction) claimed that such use of garlic could not only cure Aids, but also any number of venereal diseases, and everything under the sun really. (Kudos to Van der Maas - she was the only one in the assortment of denialists to get her hands dirty and attempt to nurse people with Aids - despite no medical qualifications. LizMcGregor describes in "Khabzela" how the popular DJ Fana Khaba wasted away and died under Van der Mass' treatment.) While the pharma firms had to vastly reduce their prices under international pressure, the alternative cure-alls for Aids are extremely over-priced - and that's putting it mildly.
Like all medicines ARVs do have side-effects, and some people react very badly, and must change their regiments (and nowadays there is some variety). Anthony Brink claimed that his friend died from ARVs, yet at a closer look he went on the drugs very late into Aids, used them incorrectly and then died when he stopped using them altogether (no doubt he came under the sway of denialist theory). Yet anyone who reads Brink's work will think this person died of ARVs! So I'll have to take people's word for it that ARVs are causing harm to individuals - but I'm sure at closer inspection the causes lie elsewhere.
Nobody is forced to take ARVs, and the roll-out in SA is still insufficient to meet demand in the state hospitals and clinics. At least now people do have a choice, and many still opt for traditional medicines.
When the denialists were in highest government office, the poor did not have a choice and ARVs were stalled at every opportunity. Doctors and nurses who gave even profilactic ARVs to rape victims and mother-to-child prevention were actually persecuted. So while denialism presents itself as the "little man" being poisoned by big pharma, in our experience it is actually fascist, dogmatic and headed by highly unpleasant people.
I'm not on ARVs yet, but I do have some faith in a good daily supplement, and my choice here is Milk Thistle, which also has anti-oxidents. I would like my liver to be in good shape when the time comes, but I'm not even sure if I'll be able to continue the Milk Thistle when I start ARVs.

Lastly, how do you know the doctor who alledgedly wrote aidstruth.org? How do you know he hasn't worked with HIV or Aids patients? Do you know him personally?

Bene Tleliax

This is not to be taken for anything specific other than general well being.

First of all - the immune "system" is consisting of many components:
www.health-news-and-information.com...

Lymphocytes mature in the bone marrow or the thymus.
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov...

Nutrition alone will not strengthen your immune system, but nutrition can influence the conditions, within the immune system have to work. If you eat unhealthy - your immune system is preoccupied fighting off germs, toxins etc. but on the other hand - if you eat healthy, the immune system is free to fight other pathogens. So nutrition can influence the immune system indirectly by creating optimal conditions.

For example - if a person suffer from candida overgrowth, then you either need to take antifungal medicine or (as I would suggest) add probiotics to your diet (lactomin etc.) - by doing this - you help your immune system.
Today - penicillin and antibiotics are given too easily - and the result is that the both the bad and the good bacteria will be mostly eradicated.

So for me - the starting point is : the digestive system (input / output system), which means adding probiotics to my diet - and be aware of what I eat.

Next - remove toxins in your system - and yes there are multiple ways of doing that - but I'll just mention 2 things that I do (and no - I don't sell anything).

I use N-Acetyl Cysteine to remove toxins and it have many other benefits.

www.webmd.com... urce=3

www.healingdaily.com...(NAC)-for-detoxification-what-it-is.htm

Activated charcoal (not regularly).

www.emedicinehealth.com...

By creating these conditions, your immune system might be more efficient at fighting off other germs.

But there are actually products claiming to directly improve your immune system, by "antigen recognition". Transfer Factor (I can't verify their claim). - but their marketing "rings" false to me.

www.mskcc.org...

There is both monovalent and polyvalent.

Here is the patent:
www.freepatentsonline.com...


And even though Coconut Oil was dismissed by halfoldman, I am still looking into it...

www.coconutresearchcenter.org...
(look at the testimonials and their message board).
I have friends that have lost massive amount of weight by just adding 3 tbl spoon coconut oil (cold pressed).


halfoldman. I think we need to stop here - you have faith in those Protease / Nucleus inhibitors, and I'm convinced that they will make you feel better - and in the end, isn't that what counts?.

FDA ARV's Approval time:

www.fda.gov...

We have different views, based upon what we have experienced - so I'm not to stop you or anyone else from taking ARVs, Actually I think everyone should at least give it a try. And whether I know Dr. Nick Bennett (Pediatrics) NY, I'll leave open. But maybe you do?.

By the way - here is a tidbit for you (Peptide-T) ...

www.aids.org...

Faith often perform miracles - and as long as YOU have FAITH in what you're doing - how can you be wrong? Anyway - I respect your viewpoint - and will leave it at this. Thank you for your valuable input.

Disclaimer: the above is my opinion, which might defer from yours, so please don't be offended by this - I have no interest in promoting anything that is mentioned and consume it myself at my own risk/benefit - and none of the above is to be considered a treatment / cure for anything - you feel sick - go see your doctor.




[edit on 13-2-2010 by Angeldust1199]

[edit on 13-2-2010 by Angeldust1199]

reply to post by pause4thought


Unfortunately that is not going to work as even the producers of the movie had experienced but forgot to mention.

The women they showed ( I forgot her name) who got off all medication to proof the point of the movie DIED a few weeks after the shoot.

reply to post by thegreatobserver


Unless you can provide some solid evidence I'll have to ask you who paid you to say that.

(It had to be said.)

I think he is referring to Christine Maggiore, hated by "the orthodox" and loved by "the denialists"

www.cwbpi.com...

Draw your own conclusion.

She was tested positive in 1992, and later negative and in the end "inconclusive".

So it's not like she dropped the meds and dropped dead.


[edit on 14-2-2010 by Angeldust1199]

Originally posted by pause4thought
reply to post by thegreatobserver

 

Unless you can provide some solid evidence I'll have to ask you who paid you to say that.

(It had to be said.)

It is mentioned on the side after the movie credits. At the end of the movie itself, and if you do some research you will see that this person is not longer among us. You can even contact the PR department of the production company. If you would watch the movie to the end (including credits) you wouldn't need to ask me for proof. It's all there. No conspiracy, nothing hidden!

Unfortunately, I haven't seen a dime for posting this. But I'm open for it

[edit on 14-2-2010 by thegreatobserver]

I have had chronic fatigue syndrome for 2 years and have done much websearching for causes and cures. I am making steady progress eating organic food and using vitamin/mineral supplements.

I recently found this
www.cidpusa.org...
which links CFS, Aids and several more illnesses to a retro virus engineered from brucellosis.

I am a victim of a bio weapon created in a military lab in USA

reply to post by Angeldust1199

I'm not offended at all. After some thought I think I may have come on too strong.
We've just come from a very polarized situation where certain views were imposed (almost topsy-turvy to most other countries). I also had the feeling that I was the only one putting forward a case focusing on the vast success of ARVs in extending lives. Things like coconut oil or hemp oil have no side-effects (unlike some herbs which act as medication, and do have side-effects), so I'll definately keep up my research on that. They sure have a lot of healthy oily fats, which can be crucial for wasting.
From the long-running Khayelitsha studies I saw that there is a 2% death rate from drug toxicity. This can furthermore be exacerbated with co-infections of hepatitis, and late-starters may already have liver damage from HIV and related cancers. There are some who cannot take the strong medicine, and some HIV-positive people fall into self-destructive habits with alcohol and drugs. So I have heard of individual cases where ARVs cannot be taken. Often people must also take TB medication, and the combined regiments can become overwhelming.
The problem is that many people are still only diagnosed very late into Aids progression, so the regiments for Aids and the secondary conditions are given simultaneosly.
Good nutritition is now a central part of post-test HIV counselling. From the food distribution from the TAC to the desperately poor I've seen things like canned sardines and the vitamin fortified maize meal (the local black staple-food), vitamin drink sachets and dried beans (there is no refrigeration). Depending on local charities there are also vegetables donated, and there are several projects to grow local vegetable and herb gardens.
Having re-read some of your points, I agree that holistic approaches can be beneficial, and I should not immediately consider the polemics we had here. Even the treatment success case of Edwin Cameron's "Witness to Aids" admits that since Judge Cameron found out his status in the 1980s he only used homeopathic medicines, until he presented with Aids in the late 1990s and went on ARVs. So for him the drugs worked and he made a remarkable recovery with ARVs and a holistic approach.
So I think there is common ground .

PS: I wanted to add on medicinal dosages of hemp-seed oil: it could be a great supplement for wasting. It boggles my mind that the ANC government under Mbeki paid all this lip service to nutrition, but they never provided it or a legal hemp industry for the poor (as they promised in previous election campaigns). Hemp remains subject to the anti-marijuana laws and is destroyed (except for a few experimental licenses the cronies received), while hemp-seed oil in health shops is imported and prohibitively expensive. In the meantime our biggest rural cash crop remains illegal. I'm not saying it can replace ARVs, but for nutritionally challenged communities it could be very beneficial.

[edit on 14-2-2010 by halfoldman]

reply to post by thegreatobserver


Fair enough - I apologize for my suspicion. Unfortunately I've only had access to the trailers.

I have no axe to grind other than a dislike for blind acceptance of any 'official line'. Just keeping an open mind, knowing the astronomical $$$$$$$$ being made out of HIV/AIDS.

Beyond that I'll just say one person who ended up deceased after trying alternative strategies hardly makes a watertight case against their use. All the more so if she survived many years (& if she was indeed actually HIV-positive, which was apparently not clear in any case).

I could add that more than one person has passed on after having used mainstream drugs...

reply to post by pause4thought


I agree and am certainly open for alternative methods of treatment of any disease because modern Western medicine lacks a holistic approach which is vital to healing a living organism. There is a difference between healing and treatment. Modern medicine focuses on treatment.

However, believe it or not, modern Pharma developed many great methods and drugs that have and will safe lives.

I'm just saying one doesn't cancel the other out. The only problem I have with people simply supporting alternative methods, is when they lack education and understanding in such methods and just promote it for the sake of bashing modern medicine.

[edit on 14-2-2010 by thegreatobserver]

Originally posted by pause4thought
reply to post by thegreatobserver

 

Fair enough - I apologize for my suspicion. Unfortunately I've only had access to the trailers.

I have no axe to grind other than a dislike for blind acceptance of any 'official line'. Just keeping an open mind, knowing the astronomical $$$$$$$$ being made out of HIV/AIDS.

Beyond that I'll just say one person who ended up deceased after trying alternative strategies hardly makes a watertight case against their use. All the more so if she survived many years (& if she was indeed actually HIV-positive, which was apparently not clear in any case).

I could add that more than one person has passed on after having used mainstream drugs...

Not only the official industry, but a lot of alternatives are making $$$$ out of HIV/Aids. The real money, I feel, of the medical industry comes from medically insured people - which included the ruling ANC members. A lot of the literature now discusses their guilt at having private access to the latest treatments, even while they went to funeral after funeral of people who died of Aids. It was a very hypocritical situation where members had to say the official denialsit line in public, but took ARVs in private.
The medical industry makes money of all treatments. Why single out Aids all the time on that pretext? Why not diabetes, gout, or even emergency room trauma treatment for example? They make money of that too.
Why not start a thread on that? Give trauma victims garlic and beetroot and boycott the system?
Mbeki's Health Minister, Manto Tshabalala Msimang was given a liver-transplant (she was an alcoholic who even drank in hospital) and was about to have her second corrupt transplant before she expired. So she advocated one "natural treatment" for the poor, but not for herself. Some say she drank herself to death because she knew that what she had to say to please Mbeki was a horrible lie.
I do believe there is a conspiracy in the origins of HIV/Aids. I mean the way it was first ignored and even hailed as God's punishment on "social pariahs" was just glaring. However, for most people the ARVs work.
Since the meds given at SA clinics are limited (the virus eventually mutates around first-line ARVs), their usefulness is not indefinate after 12-years. Still, enough people have seen the recovery from severe illness of people who have raised kids and were able to continue work on the meds.
If the argument is reduced to money, then surely there should be an overhaul of the entire medical system, and not just a constant focus on ARVs? Just wondering...

[edit on 14-2-2010 by halfoldman]

reply to post by thegreatobserver & halfoldman


I am not against modern medicine, and I have no desire to focus on this issue to the exclusion of other medical controversies.

I have found the discussion from both sides of the debate very informative. The reason I started the thread was that the House of Numbers trailers presented several very striking challenges to the official story. Some of those challenges have still not been specifically addressed, such as the surprising history of how HIV came to be regarded as the cause of AIDS, the multifarious evidence presented by scientists who deny a connection (not least in the quite outstanding documentary posted by FortAnthem,) the inefficacy of HIV tests, and so on. Having seen this evidence I will naturally remain very open-minded until the points raised have received adequate responses. And if the responses are as well-reasoned as the points made on both sides of the (more general) debate so far, rest assured I for one will be open to persuasion.

24 years HIV positive here. The medications have definitely extended my life. The downside is the effects of the meds. I've got severe osteoporosis, exremely high triglycerides and modrately high cholesterol, headaches, nausea and fatique. All my joints, ligaments hurt like hell. Then there is the depression and anxiety that come with long term illness.

I eat relatively healthy (no processed foods). However I smoke like a chimney and have the occassional extended drink bringe for pain management. I should be dead already.

What I think it really comes down to is what is in your genes and dumb luck.

I've seen people die a year after diagnosis and others still marching on as long term non-progressors. Unfortunately I'm just a long term survivor.

At least I have some good bennies and don't have to work and be around sick people all the time. I catch a cold watching someone sneeze!

Star and flag for you OP.

On this subject I will just say....

I became aware of my HIV status in March of 2009, but remained off any medications as my immune system was stable enough. In the new year of 2010 I found out I had contracted syphilis. I received treatment for this(two shots of penicillin, one in each butt cheek, for three consecutive weeks).

In June of 2010, after being very sick for months and then moving back home, I found out my CD4 count was a mere 49. By these counts I was far below the 'warning zone' of a CD4 count of 200(where it is recommended you IMMEDIATELY start treatment). In medical terms I was way past a diagnosis of having HIV. I was 27 and now told I had AIDS.

My new doctors wanted me to start medication immediately, and after learning my numbers so did I. However because I was now a 'new residence' after moving to where my family was, it meant I had to now apply for health coverage. Apparently our lovely and envied Canadian Health Care system was only local to the province you resided in(aka your not covered one province over). Not only that, but the new Health Card I had recently obtained in Ontario(my home province), after the original one I had used since birth finally crack in half, had apparently expired. The old Health Cards never expired, and you could keep them for life.

Here I was with 'AIDS' and no health coverage. My doctors did reassure me though no hospital in Canada would refuse treatment to Canadian residence(I'm pretty sure that goes for anyone though). This was a bit of relief until I was then told I basically needed to be on my death bed to get any HIV/AIDS treatment from a hospital, and not only that, because the treatment is not a drug covered by Canadian Health Care I would be billed for the entire cost of the drug and my stay. So had I needed at any point immediate emergency medical attention, regardless of my provincial coverage, I would now be stripped of any coverage what so ever(a free hospital bed, meals, doctors/nurses time, etc) because of my illness.

I thought 'wow this is just getting better and better'. Thank god I never got 'sick' or fell ill to any HIV/AIDS related sicknesses before I finally got my coverage sometime later. However in this time.... I was not working. I had no stress now(well except for the fact I was not yet 30 and told I had 'AIDS'). I was eating like a pig because I had home cooked meals once again. I drank a lot of apple juice and consumed a lot of apple cider vinegar. I meditated, and I slept A LOT.

I have only just started my HIV medication(1 pill once a day) not even three weeks ago. In the time leading up to this my doctors had been keeping a close eye on my health(almost weekly tests) since my initial CD4 count of 49 this past June. During that time they repeatedly said how shocked they were with my rebound having not yet started any treatment. Not even four weeks after my 'AIDS' diagnosis and CD4 count of 49, my CD4 count had shot up to 697, and my viral load had diminished from 600,000 to approx 27,000. I was now 'merely' HIV positive.

I know in the times leading up to the AIDS diagnosis I was under a lot of stress and not necessarily taking as good of care of myself as I should have. However in the short period of time that followed, my immune system was able to turn full circle and rebound to that of a normal person(CD4 Count 745 before I started treatment 2.5 weeks ago). I account it to the rest I got, and my mom says it was the home cooking. Whatever it was I know it was because of the good things I was putting into my body.

Some might ask why I have decided to start taking medication with such high immune levels, and my answer is that I know how quickly they can rise yes, but I also know how quickly they can fall too. I was very lucky for what played out this summer with my health, but certain I would never get that second chance again with an AIDS diagnosis.

Anyways, I do believe nutrition have A LOT to do with ones recovery. If you are good to your body, it will be good to you.

Thanks for reading.

All disease's of a biological nature are easily cured if caught in time by nutrition. I cured cancer with $125 of high potency nutritional supplements in 7 days and I had a pretty bad case of it. Noone cared 14 years ago and noone is likely to care now.

Originally posted by unityemissions
Once you acquire a virus, it stays with you your whole life. It's true, proper nutrition prevents people with HIV from progressing into AIDS. Remember, HIV is just one factor in AIDS. Usually, people have many seriously debilitating pathogens running rampant inside of them. People can get AIDS without every having HIV. I essentially have an acquired immune deficiency at this very moment! At least, that's how I registered when last tested. I don't have HIV. I eat very healthy, take high dose vitamins etc. Without this I'd be much more diseased.



[edit on 10-1-2010 by unityemissions]

Exactly....

yet your acquired immune deficiency is NOT related to HIV...

see the problem?

reply to post by ButterCookie


I'm not sure what you're trying to address that I haven't already stated. Maybe you need to be more specific.

The problem (as far as I see it) is that people can become immunocompromised from a wide range of factors, yet most people think of it as mostly just existing from the HIV virus, or AIDS. This just isn't so.

On an interesting note, although my WBC count has remained low, I'm pretty much never sick now. I had allergies last summer, and caught my first headache in a long time, but besides that...not much. Haven't had the flu since the last season I took the shot (2001), and haven't needed antibiotics since 2005, after I was traumatized from a serious car wreck. Besides that, I've been a-okay.