Bomb explodes in Northern Ireland

reply to post by snipermeister


So the British rode in like shining heroes to protect the barbaric Irish from themselves?

How does that motivation relate to this?:

From 1608, British settlers, known as planters, were given land confiscated from the native Irish in the Plantation of Ulster.[26] Coupled with Protestant immigration to "unplanted" areas of Ulster, particularly Antrim and Down, this resulted in conflict between the native Catholics and the "planters". This led to two bloody ethno-religious conflicts known as the Irish Confederate Wars (1641–1653) and the Williamite war (1689–1691), each of which resulted in Protestant victories.

British Protestant political dominance in Ireland was ensured by the passage of the penal laws, which curtailed the religious, legal and political rights of anyone (including both Catholics and (Protestant) Dissenters, such as Presbyterians) who did not conform to the state church—the Anglican Church of Ireland. Source

I'm not trying to be a jerk or looking for some pointless name-calling back and forth nonsense and as an American I really am not versed in the history of this at all and dont wish to insult or incite I just really find invasion/occupation/resistance/revolution very fascinating. When I'm done with current classes I may just start researching this for myself.

Also, for some moral relevance, what's the popular opinion among "loyalist" types regarding Lebanon, Palestine, Israel, the Kurds, Georgians, Iraq and Afghanistan now etc...

A simple answer would be to oppose or support the notion 'independence' broadly but the reality is the answer is never so black and white and each case should be considered individually on its own merit and nothing biases ones perception quite like being directly involved in said conflict/cause.

Originally posted by BingeBob
"The people" you speak of are a couple generations of brits that were forcefully placed there by the crown. Those people that trace their lineage to native soil have been convinced through propaganda or gifts from the crown.

"couple of generations of Brits"- what, so people moved here en masse in 1920

You are so indescribably stupid it is funny- seriously would love you to visit my homeland, I am one of the indigenous British folk, how about I take you for a tour................

reply to post by thisguyrighthere


Way back in 1690 (battle of the Boyne if you check wiki) religion was more a factor but in later times religion has only really been a label that has stuck with all the associated conflict as such. Most of the people involed in violence who would state they are protestants or catholics are generally not practicing protestants or catholics. Please note the word generally.

Again...All this violence and hatred...

Really, you wish me violent death because i disagree with you?

Get a grip...Its an internet forum where people post ideas and exchange information.

I would have loved for you to take me for a tour; however with you promising such violence and curses of death I think i'd rather see it for myself. You say yourself on your member page that you like topics about politics...I would have to disagree as the statement "I like politics" is a sweeping statement that would suggest you like to discuss politics. You just like your own politics and wish death upon others that dont agree.

Of course I probably wouldnt be the target of such bombings because im not british police or military. Im just a tourist spending money in local shops.

you back people who murder men women and babies, my kith and kin in my own country, so why would I care if you experienced the joy of their just cause?

Originally posted by HowlrunnerIV

and the body count at Omagh was, what? 3, 4, 6 perhaps. Keeping in mind that apparently terrorist attacks outside the US always result in single-digit casualty lists...

Well my comment was based on the info the OP posted that there was a bombing that injured 1 man.

The bombing was targeted to 1 person not an airplane full of people. Call it an assasination attempt.

Originally posted by BingeBob

Originally posted by HowlrunnerIV

and the body count at Omagh was, what? 3, 4, 6 perhaps. Keeping in mind that apparently terrorist attacks outside the US always result in single-digit casualty lists...

Well my comment was based on the info the OP posted that there was a bombing that injured 1 man.

The bombing was targeted to 1 person not an airplane full of people. Call it an assasination attempt.

no we will call it mass murder as placing a bomb in a busy town centre, will, unsurprisingly kill lots of civilian- including a pregnant woman and several kids


Maybe in one of your tourist outings you may experience such a blast?

Originally posted by BingeBob
Again...All this violence and hatred...

Really, you wish me violent death because i disagree with you?

...

Of course I probably wouldnt be the target of such bombings because im not british police or military. Im just a tourist spending money in local shops.

Really? Tell that to the families of the two Australian lawyers dragged from their car and executed on holiday in the Netherlands in 1989 by the PIRA.

While you're having fun here with your "intellectual exercise" of trading opinions people are still dying.

And "independence" has nothing to do with it.

It's a purely criminal matter now.

What?

Did i miss something...The reports posted say that only 1 man was injured in THIS blast.

We arent talking about Omagh.

So to break it down...

You feel that another country should take land from the natives and implant its own people and keep the land.

I feel that a sovereign country should be left alone to their own devices and when another country infringes on their land they should remove them by any means necessary.

(yeah i know...native americans...but that was horrible in itself and the natives did try to remove the colonists when they were threatened)

Originally posted by BingeBob
You feel that another country should take land from the natives and implant its own people and keep the land.

jump in a time machine then you looney bin as all countries have a history ofmovement and conflict

I feel that a sovereign country should be left alone to their own devices and when another country infringes on their land they should remove them by any means necessary.

Well the republic of ireland is a sovereign country and is left to its own devices as is the UK

(yeah i know...native americans...but that was horrible in itself and the natives did try to remove the colonists when they were threatened)

yeah, did you know, yeah, yeah

Originally posted by osc121
These dissedents have been rumbling away in the background for about 18 months now, they have always had a prsesence since the "ceasefire" was announced, but never really had any technical ability

the worrying part is that some of the old bomb makers, quartermasters and foot soldiers form the old regimes are coming out of "retirement" to help out

the political wings & factions are condemning these latest attacks, but they seem to be getting more and more support from the people who carried out these types of attacks from a few years ago

[edit on 8/1/10 by osc121]

If anyone is interested here is a link to an old acticle from the BBC going into a bit more depth in relation to the quote above.

news.bbc.co.uk...

reply to post by HowlrunnerIV


Im not arguing the criminal nature of some individuals. What does pulling lawyers from their car and executing them have to do with irish freedom from british rule in the north?

You 2 are twisting this into a fight it was not meant to be.

Are there people that live in N. Ireland that want to join the Republic without violence?

Originally posted by BingeBob
What?

Did i miss something...The reports posted say that only 1 man was injured in THIS blast.

We arent talking about Omagh.

Why not? You began talking about Fort Hood.

So to break it down...

You feel that another country should take land from the natives and implant its own people and keep the land.

Why, yes. That does fairly clearly sum up how the US, Canada and Australia were formed. Now, if you're not a citizen of one of them, then you might have a point.

Or, perhaps, you figure Robert Mugabe's got a point...

I feel that a sovereign country should be left alone to their own devices and when another country infringes on their land they should remove them by any means necessary.

Oh, a SOVERIEGN country. Well, you'll have fun there, then. Ireland wasn't exactly what you call a soveriegn country at the time. It wasn't exactly united under a single political entity.

But I can see how you'd choose such definitions given your sovereign nation's history.

As much as I love debating issues, I would advise (non Irish) people to avoid this like the plague.

I have family on both sides and its not pretty.

reply to post by BingeBob


Good question, really. Why don't you take it up with the IRA? As I intimated, I'm sure their families would like to know the answer, too.

Why do you need to be ruled by a king or many kings to be soveriegn?

What do you get by being part of britain that you wouldnt get being part of the republic?

Now the point has been lost when i said that terror attacks on the US have more casualties. I was specifically referring to this most recent bombing that targeted and injured 1 man. Any time a violent action targeted and killed/injured 1 man in the US we call it an assasination (attempt).

Keep in mind that the information that we have may be diluted in some way as well to make us feel a certain way.

Originally posted by HowlrunnerIV
reply to post by BingeBob

 

Good question, really. Why don't you take it up with the IRA? As I intimated, I'm sure their families would like to know the answer, too.

Im asking you and blue. You say you live there. On an objective stance are there people that live in the north that want to dissolve ties with britain? What percentage of the population would you estimate wants this?

reply to post by BingeBob


If you're seriously going to debate like this then choose your words more carefully the first time.

"Sovereign nation". That requires a single political entity. The Irish were not that, whether they were ruled by a King, had set up an anarcho-syndaclist commune or declared the invention of the Republic in Europe doesn't matter. They were not a sovereign nation.

reply to post by BingeBob


I'm wondering that too.

According to one of the agreements that ended the conflict Northern Ireland was supposed be willing to join the Republic of Ireland at such a time the people of Northern Ireland voted to do so.

Is this a regular ballot issue or just sort of swept under the rug and forgotten about?

I also wonder if there are "false flag" theories among the population whereas the attacks are staged to prompt or crate support for a British takeover of Ireland entirely. Invasion theories abound all over the globe. Why would this situation be any different?

[edit on 8-1-2010 by thisguyrighthere]