10 year old UK article: Snowfalls are now just a thing of the past

The paradox is that our longer colder winters are apparently the result of global warming - or at least of climate change. Reportedly it's to do with changes in the gulf stream. I just don't think this was understood back then.
I'm not saying that changes are anything to do with CO2 emissions. That's a whole other subject.
I'm now beginning to run out of coal and food.
The bins in our little rural community have not been emptied for weeks now. Loads of people I know have fallen on the ice and the postie next door has broken his leg.
There are elderly people round about who are struggling and we do what we can to help.
Elsewhere people have lost their electricity and gas supplies.
A lot of people simply don't get paid if they don't turn up for work.
Most non emergency medical treatment has been cancelled.
Councils have been announcing that they won't be gritting side roads. Sorry but I can't remember the last time my local council EVER gritted a side road.
Really this has ceased to be fun where I am.
This country is going to have to change its infrastructure because this is going to happen more.
I've heard it said that UK will probably end up like Canada, so if you are thinking of picking pineapples off the trees anytime soon...


[edit on 7-1-2010 by unicorn1]

reply to post by TheBandit795

produce not only fewer white Christmases, but fewer white Januaries and Februaries.

It doesn't say that global warming prevents it from ever snowing again!

Long-term patterns caused by global warming will lead to a slow warming, and then an ice-age in western europe because of ocean currents changing the gulf stream due to melting ice.

The source's title and this thread is narrow minded and misrepresents the science.

[edit on 7-1-2010 by john124]

Originally posted by itsawild1
Look up all ya the dimming planes are spraying daily---i bet they were not when these statements were made. Look up you guys--out of your homes and look up--they are dimming with chem trails every day, even in winter here in n-wisconsin----its so funny how easly you doughters are when the planes fly everyday now--duh! ya its cooler---with hazed over skies every day what woulf you expect====I laugh my ass off at ignorance sometimes

Is this even english?

As for Chemtrails... Never seen 'em, and in the UK, a hazed over sky is natural weather. I was 12 before I knew the sky was supposed to be blue.

Colder than a witch's tit where I am. Snow outside and I've lost circulation to my feet and hands.

Really it comes down to this, now everyone who used the term global warming now has egg on their faces, so they just changed it to climate change.

Originally posted by john124
reply to post by TheBandit795

 

produce not only fewer white Christmases, but fewer white Januaries and Februaries.

It doesn't say that global warming prevents it from ever snowing again!

Long-term patterns caused by global warming will lead to a slow warming, and then an ice-age in western europe because of ocean currents changing the gulf stream due to melting ice.

This thread is narrow minded and misrepresents the science.

[edit on 7-1-2010 by john124]

Oh you poor, poor puppet of the system.

Don't you realise that the "science" is false? It's fake, bogus, misrepresentative, lies, bullcrap, rubbish, untrue (just call me Mr. Thesaurus )

Snow got me a week off college. What ever made it snow like that... God bless you and god bless the united kingdom.

Gotta say, apparently there's going to be a blizzard in 2 hours down in the S.E coast of England - which is usually the warmest place in all of England.

Pretty weird weather though. And the weather people are wrong again xD

Originally posted by jonnyc55
Snow got me a week off college. What ever made it snow like that... God bless you and god bless the united kingdom.

You git!! I work in a college. Unfortunately, I work in a Tight arse college that won't shut down unless people are getting killed trying to get in.

It only goes to show what I have always suspected - mankind cannot out-think the universe.

We are a dot on the landscape of the universe - we think we are clever, but we cannot predict or outsmart the universe.

I personally think Global Warming is some sort of scam.
I think it has something to with the fact that were running out of fossil fuel
so the government is saying were killing the planet so are putting it on global warming
so we all wake up and save fossil fuel.

I could be completely wrong but the government enjoys using scare tactics to control people. Same thing as religion in my opinion.

I heard some where the earth is entering the summer solstice which is basically why the earth is heating up.

My opinion only, Just wanted to see if anybody agrees ??

Scam or not, the reality is that the common folks are hurting now. If it continues on this manner, more will only suffer. It's time to bring out the military to help. They have the organisation and the tools. I am sure the fun and the laughter had long gone from those guys there.

Any help required for international assistance? I've a couple of heaters and warm blankets if you folks need any.

reply to post by nik1halo

Oh you poor, poor puppet of the system.

Don't you realise that the "science" is false? It's fake, bogus, misrepresentative, lies, bullcrap, rubbish, untrue (just call me Mr. Thesaurus )

If you think a bit of snow disproves man-made global warming, then all of those words describe your thoughts.

I would wait until we have long-term trends before jumping to conclusions, and there's nothing wrong with taking precautions.

Some of the evidence suggests that in the short-term we will have a cooling due to pollution effects in the atmosphere, before a gradual warming. Science doesn't deal with absolute certainties, and scientists can only use the evidence at hand. Are they supposed to say something other than what the evidence suggests? Sometimes the science does turn out to be false, and somebody guessing correct on the occasions science has got it wrong are just guessing. So what if somebody guesses correct - it doesn't provide a long-term mechanism to make predictions.

Since we are observing only 2 distinct seasons in some parts of the world - summer to winter and vice-versa, this seems to point to man having some effect as this change is rather sudden. The science changes, adapts and improves according to new evidence, and the only choice we have is to use this evidence unless we prefer to believe in fortune-telling to make weather predictions - whether long or short-term.

So how do you like that - science has already given a partial explaination of short-term temperature drops (assuming there is a trend), and in the far long-term increased warming will melt ice and disrupt the gulf stream which may cause an ice-age in western europe!

If any of this turns out to be false, then mistakes only lead to learning how not to not make them again and improve our understanding. If assuming that the earth just cools without any mid-term warming, then who else besides scientists are going to determine why and help the world survive these conditions, and improve our understanding of climate change? But it's naive to assume that the established science of climate change is false because of a few snowfalls over a short 2 month period.


[edit on 7-1-2010 by john124]

Originally posted by Dagar
It's one of those 'win-win' situations for GW scientists and proponents.

Mild Winter?... put it down to global warming (earth retaining more heat due to man adding too much CO2 into atmosphere)

Severe Winter?... put it down to global warming (the gulf stream has shifted due to man adding too much CO2 into atmosphere)

Thanks for posting that, brilliant

reply to post by john124


Yes the trend data. We all know what climate scientists fearing for their jobs do with that.

reply to post by john124



I can't argue with a word you've said, but you said it yourself. This is all based on short term data (which has been proven to be misleading at best). We know that the Earth goes through climate trends and has done throughout it's life.

What I was trying to put across in those admittedly sarcastic words was that there is NO scientific evidence that there is anything unnatural happening at the moment.

Do you think a few inches of snow proves climate change? No, it's just an unusually cold winter and no science is going to disprove that.

Funnily enough, last night my Dad was saying that it reminds him of the winters they had in the 60's. Also, Charles Dickens' books often portrayed very cold winters and barmy summers.

It's called a cycle. It's happened before, it'll happen again.

[edit to add]
I am a data engineer and know exactly how easy it is to manipulate the raw data to make the figures say what you want them to say. I admit to having committed that crime myself (although on a much smaller and less life changing way to climategate). Also, it's amazing how flexible professional morals can be when your career is on the line.

[edit on 7-1-2010 by nik1halo]

Originally posted by john124
reply to post by nik1halo

 

Oh you poor, poor puppet of the system.

Don't you realise that the "science" is false? It's fake, bogus, misrepresentative, lies, bullcrap, rubbish, untrue (just call me Mr. Thesaurus )

If you think a bit of snow disproves man-made global warming, then all of those words describe your thoughts.

I would wait until we have long-term trends before jumping to conclusions, and there's nothing wrong with taking precautions.




[edit on 7-1-2010 by john124]

Should we stop pumping crap into the atmosphere? ... Oh yes!

Should we stop polluting our seas and rivers? .... Oh yes!

Should we stop cutting down rain forests? ... Oh yes!

Should we stop taking our pants down and crapping on the planet? .... Oh yes!

Should we tax the crap out of everyone, and call it 'action' to prevent the above? ... Give me a break!

... and that's what the whole 'Climate Change' thing has turned into.... a money fest for governments. Then some wonder why the rest of us have become so cynical about it.

I know it can be a difficult concept, but global warming/climate change doesn't mean that decembers and januarys become julys and augusts. Neither does every single place on the earth show temperatures above average at all times throughout the year. Nor will it mean every year is warmer than the last. Nor will it mean that snow never happens again.

Indeed, if you can grasp the concept of averages, it's quite possible for outside your front door to have a very unusual -100'C and still have a high global average.

What has been proposed is that average temperatures will increase in the long-term due to human activities. Which is what is readily observed.

If we had a number of forum members from greenland and the arctic (where's Santa when you need him!), they would be reporting very above average temperatures over the last few weeks. And we'd have above average for north africa as well. And that's just the northern hemisphere - one half of a globe.

While our snow and ice will easily melt in a few weeks, like it does every year, the snow and ice in the arctic regions which help reflect solar radiation year round is currently being 'toasted'.

[edit on 7-1-2010 by melatonin]

reply to post by melatonin


But this is still a very short term trend and as I've said before I am a data engineer, so I have a very strong understanding of averages. Strong enough in fact to know that there is not near enough data available to use averages as an accurately reprasentative figure, as you only need a couple of years unusual weather to affect the total mean value.

I have a degree in Computer Science and have read through the climategate papers, which I understood and there is no doubt in my mind that those figures were doctored in parts, manipulated in others and in some places down right made up!

I'm not denying climate change. What I do deny is that fact that there is any reliable scientific data to support the fact that is is man made.

The whole thing is IMHO a money grabbing scheme.

Originally posted by nik1halo
But this is still a very short term trend

On the geological scale, yeah. But it's sufficient to note the climate trend.

ABE: and it's interesting that with even a short-term event of a few weeks of snow and cold in a few places (i.e., regional weather) during winter, people here are writing off a well-established science which speaks to long-term changes on the global scale.

I would have difficulty reconciling that reasoning.

I have a degree in Computer Science and have read through the climategate papers, which I understood and there is no doubt in my mind that those figures were doctored in parts, manipulated in others and in some places down right made up!

I'm not going there as it's totally OT, but there is no evidence of scientific fraud in those hacked emails or in the data files.

Well done on getting a BSc, but I couldn't care any less if you were the queen of sheeba.

I'm not denying climate change. What I do deny is that fact that there is any reliable scientific data to support the fact that is is man made.

CO2 is a GHG. CO2 is increasing due to human activity. CO2 alters radiative balance. Altering radiative balance alters climate. It's simple physics. The greenhouse effect keeps us toasty, we are increasing it.

Nature 410, 355-357 (15 March 2001) | doi:10.1038/35066553; Received 17 May 2000; Accepted 15 January 2001

Increases in greenhouse forcing inferred from the outgoing longwave radiation spectra of the Earth in 1970 and 1997
John E. Harries, Helen E. Brindley, Pretty J. Sagoo & Richard J. Bantges

1.Space and Atmospheric Physics Group, Blackett Laboratory, Imperial College, London SW7 2BW, UK
Correspondence to: John E. Harries Correspondence and requests for materials should be addressed to J.E.H. (e-mail: Email: [email protected]).

The evolution of the Earth's climate has been extensively studied1, 2, and a strong link between increases in surface temperatures and greenhouse gases has been established3, 4. But this relationship is complicated by several feedback processes—most importantly the hydrological cycle—that are not well understood5, 6, 7. Changes in the Earth's greenhouse effect can be detected from variations in the spectrum of outgoing longwave radiation8, 9, 10, which is a measure of how the Earth cools to space and carries the imprint of the gases that are responsible for the greenhouse effect11, 12, 13. Here we analyse the difference between the spectra of the outgoing longwave radiation of the Earth as measured by orbiting spacecraft in 1970 and 1997. We find differences in the spectra that point to long-term changes in atmospheric CH4, CO2 and O3 as well as CFC-11 and CFC-12. Our results provide direct experimental evidence for a significant increase in the Earth's greenhouse effect that is consistent with concerns over radiative forcing of climate.

[edit on 7-1-2010 by melatonin]

reply to post by melatonin


Easy reply:

It is well known that most of that warming is NOT due to the direct warming effect of the CO2 by itself, which is relatively weak. It is instead due to indirect effects (positive feedbacks) that amplify the small amount of direct warming from the CO2. The most important warmth-amplifying feedbacks in climate models are clouds and water vapor.

by Roy W. Spencer, Ph.D.
December 27, 2008 (last modified December 29, 2008)

Source

You see anyone can get evidence to back up their point of view from accredited professionals.

I think we're going to have to agree to disagree on this one my friend. Although I do love a good debate as much as the next man, I've had about 3 hours sleep and my brain work not much goodly today. I'm just gonna end up getting frustrated and sarcastic as hell.

Maybe on the next climate thread I'll be more alert.

Peace out \m/

[edit to add]
Just noticed also that your data is a little outdated compared to mine. by at least 8 years.

[edit on 7-1-2010 by nik1halo]