Only one percent of the Holocaust claims can be proven - Says Holocaust Scholar and Expert

Part of the issue here seems to be Zionism. Perhaps this book from 1913 will interest you guys. This was well before too much BS started to cloud reality

Zionism

reply to post by apacheman


if the Nazis were obsessive-compulsive, how were there so many Jewish survivors of the Holocaust?

A common argument against Holocaust denial is "you should talk to my relative, they were there." And apparently survived an obsessive compulsive death camp. So how was that possible? How were there so many survivors, even today, if this was a genocide against all jews?

reply to post by really



I never said I accepted the Russian claims at face value, only that I acknowledged that the death toll could have been that high but we're talking war including bombing by airplane, artillery shelling, machine gun and rifle fire, starvation, deprivation from lack of shelter, etc. War is messy. No one expects every single death to be documented because in many cases, the bodies can't even be recovered or identified. I don't believe that the Russians even themselves know for sure precisely how many died during WW2. I don't question it because I haven't seen any evidence to dispute it and because the Russian people seem to have moved on and are not obsessed with it. Innocent civilians die in war and that's a tragedy but we here are talking about an allegation of deliberate and planned mass murder and I'm saying the evidence just doesn't add up.

Originally posted by freighttrain
Just curious why in one sign it says "4 million" and the other says "1.5" million and says "mainly Jews", what other type of people died?

Jews, Slavs, Freemasons, homosexuals, handicapped people and general dissenters were all imprisoned I'm afraid. As another poster earlier said, it's a travesty that almost all of the focus has been on the suffering of the Jews, when so many others lost their lives and freedoms.

reply to post by ancient_wisdom


You're right. Because there are survivors it must be a lie. Using that logic the Armenian genocide must be a lie, the American Indian Genocide must be a lie, the genocide in Darfur must be a lie.
You're logic is irrefutable.

reply to post by Cythraul


Plenty of peoples lost their lives. That is absolutely true. I think Jews are given the spotlight here because the Nazis were looking for "The Final Solution to the Jewish Question". They took extra care in deciding how to exterminate the Jews.

Originally posted by really
reply to post by ancient_wisdom

 

You're right. Because there are survivors it must be a lie. Using that logic the Armenian genocide must be a lie, the American Indian Genocide must be a lie, the genocide in Darfur must be a lie.
You're logic is irrefutable.

How many American Indians do you know? Or Darfurians?

reply to post by Mr_skepticc


No one here denies the Holocaust ever took place. The only question is the Body Count.

I too been to the Jew Holocaust Museum, it moved me. But then I wondered where the Nanking Museum was.


[edit on 6-1-2010 by GorehoundLarry]

Originally posted by really
reply to post by Cythraul

 

Plenty of peoples lost their lives. That is absolutely true. I think Jews are given the spotlight here because the Nazis were looking for "The Final Solution to the Jewish Question". They took extra care in deciding how to exterminate the Jews.

Sorry for my ignorance, but how could anyone do extra care when a genocide is taking place? Genocide is also the same for the other races whose were there. If this is happened, it was the final solution for the others too. So your statement lookes like now: the Jewish people has the right to steal the spotlight, because they got extra care there. In genocide there is no extra care. It's happening or it's not happening by my opinion. There is no difference between genocide and genocide.

[edit on 6-1-2010 by Sharrow]

reply to post by ancient_wisdom


Another point to all of this is: If the Nazi's were out to just exterminate jews, and that's it, then why would they go to all the trouble of tattooing them their own number, and catagorizing them all by insignia (like in an army)? That is because the jews who refused to just up and leave, they were sent to labor camps, and many jews changed their mind and left. Those who didn't died because the allied troops bombed railroads, which left supplies like food and clothes scarce to none in all of the camps.

reply to post by Beancounter72


So you allow for error as "not all bodies are expected to be counted" for the Russian but not for the Jews. You know, that around 3 million of the Jews said to be killed by the Nazis were not in camps but when the Germans rolled into a town/city they would just murder them. One bullet for multiple Jews, preferably. But, you won't give the Jewish numbers the same leniency?
Maybe, once all the holocaust survivors are dead (which will be soon) you'll hear the Jews talk about it less. Just like I'm sure will hear less about civil rights abuses here in America when the generation of black Americans who lived through the 60s finally passes away.
Certain pain doesn't fade quickly.

Originally posted by AshleyD
We could say we have 1% PROOF of the history involving the Russian Revolution while 99% is inherited knowledge.

That's pretty much untrue. There are a great deal of documents and artifacts of all sorts that are verifiably genuine, from that historical period. They even established when, where and how the Tsar family was executed, who Lenin slept with and the full succession of bolshevik terror government.

The Winter palace is still there... Stalin's tobacco pipe is there. Secret protocols condemning people to death are there. The alleged furnaces of WWII are not.

Originally posted by GorehoundLarry
The body count of the Jewish Holocaust remains highly skeptical and debatable. However, you cannot deny the fact that the Jews were indeed mistreated, along with every other Catholics, gays, handicapped, Gypsies, etc.

Over 20,000,000,000 Russians were slaughtered, you don't see them asking for profits, do you?

[edit on 6-1-2010 by GorehoundLarry]

Many of the slaughtered were Christians. (in Russia) They were demonically tortured in ways unable to be imagined by most people, according to what I have read about it.

As far as the holocaust goes, the International Red Cross has released some archives documenting their observations during that time.

In the interest of *denying ignorance* which a lot of people only pay lip service to here, depending on the topic, I recommend reading the following documents. Get to them fast though, the information is already being sanitized. I could not find any of the pictures referenced in the article. Maybe someone else will have more luck than me.

OFFICIAL INTERNATIONAL RED CROSS RECORDS RELEASED

Copy of numbers document here

For the record, my personal belief, based on researching what information is available, is that certain portions of the official story have been exaggerated, and in some cases deliberately falsified. That said, it was a terrible time for mankind in general, and a lot of people were killed on purpose, or died due to the terrible conditions that war can impose.

From my research, terrible atrocities were committed by ALL parties involved, even the Allies, in Dresden Germany and other places, and even the Jews, against their own people, and in Russia, where the victims involved were mainly Christians. If I have neglected to mention anyone who was victimized or who were victimizers, I have no agenda in doing so.

There is certainly enough guilt on ALL sides to go around.

I believe one of the main reasons there is not an open atmosphere to historically discuss all the facts involved in both the World Wars, is mainly due to powerful factions connected to the LEADERS of all the countries and factions that participated in the wars. The leaders are usually the ones that want the wars, but they aren't usually the ones that pay the heaviest price.

The ordinary person involved in the conflicts were just people being manipulated and used to further an unspoken agenda, as is the usual case when wars are being concocted. Most people just want to live a life of peace, minding their own business.

No one person or group of people should stand out as a greater victim in this, or more deserving of remembrance.

God Bless

sezsue

[edit on 6-1-2010 by sezsue]

reply to post by GorehoundLarry


The "Holocaust" didn't happen. The "Holocaust" is referring to the fact that the nazi's used ovens and gas chambers to systematically exterminate every jew in the entire world. So jews died, but were not murdered.

I think the numbers are way over what has been reported, 6 million, 7 million, proably 10 million.

reply to post by apacheman


I have seen documentary evidence from the war that shows the actual number of daily concentration camp deaths was measured in the hundreds. Not tens of thousands which is what you would need to add up to millions but hundreds. I'm sure that somewhere out there somebody could probably find other documentation that supports the conventional wisdom. What is most convincing to me is that population statistics gathered by jewish organizations from before and after the war show that there could not possibly have been 6 million jewish deaths during the war AND the fact that even after 60 years, there are STILL 3.5 million holocaust survivors collecting compensation payments from the German government. Think about that fact from the point of view of life expectency. Anyone who was an adult in the 1940's would be over 80 today. So the vast majority of those 3.5 million survivors had to be children during the war. Now add back the hundreds of thousands of survivors who have since died after the war. I don't know what that figure is but it's a lot. Using pre-war jewish census figures, there were not more than 5.5 million jews in all of Europe including Spain, France, and central and easter europe. Just do the math! 3.5 Million plus post war deaths plus 6 million war deaths does NOT add up to 5.5 million.

reply to post by sezsue

There is certainly enough guilt on ALL sides to go around. I believe one of the main reasons there is not an open atmosphere to historically discuss all the facts involved in both the World Wars, is mainly due to powerful factions connected to the LEADERS of all the countries and factions that participated in the wars. The leaders are usually the ones that want the wars, but they aren't usually the ones that pay the heaviest price. The ordinary person involved in the conflicts were just people being manipulated and used to further an unspoken agenda, as is the usual case when wars are being concocted.

But its NOT OVER. Auschwitz lives on.

Most people just want to live a life of peace, minding their own business.

It is the few that don't that are the worry. Especially ones that think like this.

War Against the Weak - Edwin Black

reply to post by GorehoundLarry


Thats kind of an idiotic argument don't you think?..I mean comparing the mass murder of the Jewish people by an evil dictator, to the killings of innocent people that were brought on by their goverment by starting a war that they had no buisness starting in the first place. They awoke a sleeping giant, a super power, and realized it after it was too late, the people who died from the result of America dropping the atom bomb to WIN the war, were simply collateral damage, thats war. The Jewish people did not die this way, they were slaughtered, murdered at the pleasure of their own ruler, the Japanese were simply collateral damage!

[edit on 6-1-2010 by Mr_skepticc]

reply to post by ancient_wisdom


Hmmmm.... I've known a few American Indians (or part American Indian), MANY Armenians, and nobody from Darfur. What's your point. I'd bet dollars to doughnuts that plenty of people on ATS have never met a Jew. What does that mean?
I've never met anyone from Alaska in person either (to my knowledge). I've never met a native of Bali either. Who else would you like me to account for?

Originally posted by Beancounter72
NO evidence of mass graves has EVER been found near any concentration camp.

Oh dear, it did not take long for the lies to start

en.wikipedia.org...:Nordhausenmassgrave.jpg
www.shamash.org...
www.shamash.org...
news.bbc.co.uk...

so many mass graves have been found near concentration camps, despite what a holocaust denier claims!