Global Warming or a New Ice Age?

Originally posted by Deny Arrogance
reply to post by buddhasystem

 

Could you please direct me to your source for the Gulf Stream shutdown?

I'm looking at these recent maps and do not see it.

Sorry - it was not a few days ago, but a few years. I mis-typed!

Here are a few links:
www.timesonline.co.uk...
en.wikipedia.org...

There Wiki link cites uncertainties in the measurements (that's a good sign).

Again, my apologies by accidentally typing "days" instead of years. I was typing too fast

reply to post by buddhasystem


Here's a quote from one of your links:

CLIMATE change researchers have detected the first signs of a slowdown in the Gulf Stream — the mighty ocean current that keeps Britain and Europe from freezing. They have found that one of the “engines” driving the Gulf Stream — the sinking of supercooled water in the Greenland Sea — has weakened to less than a quarter of its former strength. The weakening, apparently caused by global warming, could herald big changes in the current over the next few years or decades. Paradoxically, it could lead to Britain and northwestern and Europe undergoing a sharp drop in temperatures.

Link: www.timesonline.co.uk...

Thanks for that! This is the first I have heard of it.

For sake of completeness, apparently this topic was discussed right here on ATS a long time ago, and still if of interest:

www.abovetopsecret.com...

reply to post by buddhasystem

Not a problem. I remember the slowdown a few years back, but had heard nothing of a shutdown a few days back.

My advice: blame rented fingers.

TheRedneck

reply to post by network dude


Hydrogen : stop thinking in the same direction. Hydrogen is not cost effective, the cells pollute, and we cannot recycle them.

SO hydrogen is not the solution !

You got electricity why do you want to transform it ? ( you lose energy when you transform it : and yes today we don't have perfect battery but it is better in comparison)

We need to think deeply : not continuing in the same way ("fuel" / liquid cell).

The earth is right on schedule for the next ice age.

You must step back a look at the bigger picture.

It's about the cycle of the earth, it's tilt and it's orbit. The Earth's orbit around the sun is not a pefect circle.

The inclination of the Earth's orbit has a 100,000 year cycle relative to the invariable plane; by chance, this is very similar to the 100,000 year eccentricity period.

This 100,000-year cycle closely matches the 100,000-year pattern of ice ages.

Milankovitch cycles

Every 100,000 years or so - we go into a an ice age. We are right on schedule with the begining of the next one.

Here are the Ice Age charts that show that we are entering the next ice age:





You can read much more here:
Ice Age - Wiki

Next ice age in on it way - DUE RIGHT NOW.

Both the Wiki links have lots of good information, charts and images.

Originally posted by redoubt
Yes, of course it is winter. Duh. But all things being equal, we do have winters and then there are WINTERS.

Yeah, there are weather variations. Sometimes winters are fairly mild, sometimes they're pretty cold.

Not really indicative of an ice-age.

I know it's propaganda fodder but it doesn't really say much about a new ice-age, especially in a decade that is the warmest for the last hundred of years or so, and probably for a couple of thousand.

Originally posted by melatonin

Originally posted by redoubt
Yes, of course it is winter. Duh. But all things being equal, we do have winters and then there are WINTERS.

Yeah, there are weather variations. Sometimes winters are fairly mild, sometimes they're pretty cold.

Not really indicative of an ice-age.

I know it's propaganda fodder but it doesn't really say much about a new ice-age, especially in a decade that is the warmest for the last hundred of years or so, and probably for a couple of thousand.

oh well ... the warmest times according to the graphs appears just before the iceage ... fast decline --- slow rise ... look at the graph again

[edit on 5-1-2010 by pilot70]

reply to post by Julie Washington


I agree, all we need to do is look at the history of the planet. History repeats itself so we are due for another ice age. I believe we are in what is called an "interglacial period" (the period of warming between the ice ages) and yes it gets warmer before it gets a LOT colder. So in conclusion, yes I do believe we are heading for a cooling trend followed by another ice age. Maybe not in our life times or even our great grandchildrens lifetimes but it WILL happen as it has happened before.

As for the "global warming" stuff, I believe all we are doing is speeding up the NATURAL cycle of things. Mother nature has a tendancy to correct any imbalance thrown at her....it may take several hundred or thousand years but she is patient and will wait while our lives are but a blink in the cosmic eye.

[edit on 5-1-2010 by QBSneak000]

[edit on 5-1-2010 by QBSneak000]

----jeez jeez!!!!!--people wake up!!! why all the airplanes hazzing the skies in crisscross patterns??? every day here in wisconsin the plains fly---this summer it was every 15 minutes ?? why---would they really have to fly EVERY day EVERY morning till the sky is all hazzed by 10 every morning???no major airports here --no cities up here??would they do thiss for nothing???some say its for a hundred reasons--HARP, MIND CONTROL , CELL PHONE BOOSTING,--you name it, i heard it. ITS DIMMING PEOPLE --they are dimming the sunlight , spraying their haze crap. I dont want to insult but really----WHY every day all summer and then tapering off in winter but never stopping----I MEAN COME ON --look up and see---I could go on and on about how are winters have got warmer every year--but!! denyers will find 100 reasons not to believe -the ones--[smarter than the average bear] already know. I laugh because all of you who really havent done your homework have an awakining comming--and you will feel bad about spreading the dis-information before really studying. You guys --LOOK UP--WHY EVERY DAY???------ITS SO SIMPLE ITS FUNNY YOU ALL DIDNT CATCH ON---i work as a carpenter and i AM an avid outdoorsman---FIND ME 1 OUTDOORSMAN who doesnt believe and i will not believe he is a outdoorsman-------man o man---some of you people have to get outside once in awhile---use yor heads--EVERYDAY CHEM SPRAYING --- go google chem spraying --you will gwt a hundred reasons--but the one that makes the most sence is dimming BECAUSE they do it EVERY day
.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Almost the same as my thread.

not to sound like a jerk but are you all complaining about a foot of snow? we had nearly 3 ft last weekend here in wv

Originally posted by chaseninja
not to sound like a jerk but are you all complaining about a foot of snow? we had nearly 3 ft last weekend here in wv

Speaking just for myself (in the OP)... it wasn't really a complaint. Around here, ice and snow is a day off from school and work and everyone treats it like a holiday lol.

More, it is wondering whether there is something more to the extreme winter weather than mere coincidence.

I do think it is a new ice age to be honest, maybe not exactly yet, but its starting. The northern hemisphere has been hit by some extreme weather. America is more used to it, but I recently heard its meant to start snowing in Florida soon. Thats not right.

Britain has been hit very hard by the snow, as has most of Europe. In Europe, Polands longest river has been completely frozen. China had a train get stuck in a 2m deep snow drift. Most countries have had their worst winter in nearly 100 years, Britain for nearly 30. Its meant to get down to -20C this weekend in Northern Scotland, again not right. It may not seem like much, but we dont have extreme weather like that, we're pretty average. Enough snow to cover cars completely isnt normal either.

The Gulf Stream doesnt seem to be doing its job for Europe. Its obviously not stopped completely otherwise we would be in an ice age, but its slowed down. I read somewhere once that if about 1% more fresh water melted into the gulf stream to knock the balance, it would probably cause another ice age.

I dont know if this was all caused by global warming, it probably was but who knows. The main thing is the damage is now irreversible, we are either going into or going to have an ice age soon. The sooner people accept that and stop trying to save the planet and focus on saving their own lives, the more people that will survive.

Originally posted by pilot70
oh well ... the warmest times according to the graphs appears just before the iceage ... fast decline --- slow rise ... look at the graph again

Not really the best way to predict an ice-age. Using knowledge of solar orbital variation it's predicted to be a few thousand years away yet (about 50,000 according to Berger & Loutre, 2002). However, it's likely that emitting billions of tonnes of GHG will overcome such a process.

It's probably not a coincidence that when CO2 levels have been high in deep geological past that ice cover was reduced and when CO2 levels were low, ice cover expanded.

ABE: like a good latin harey rabbit, I can likely pika into da future and predict responses to this post, but lets wait and see...

[edit on 5-1-2010 by melatonin]

reply to post by melatonin

I know it's propaganda fodder but it doesn't really say much about a new ice-age, especially in a decade that is the warmest for the last hundred of years or so, and probably for a couple of thousand.

I know it's propaganda fodder, lol

And please don't throw your meaningless data at me. Data can say whatever you want it to if you are a fruit picker with a political agenda.

Middle Ages were warmer than today, say scientists
Robert Matthews
Originally Published on Telegraph.co.uk

Such claims have now been sharply contradicted by the most comprehensive study yet of global temperature over the past 1,000 years. A review of more than 240 scientific studies has shown that today's temperatures are neither the warmest over the past millennium, nor are they producing the most extreme weather - in stark contrast to the claims of the environmentalists. The review, carried out by a team from Harvard University, examined the findings of studies of so-called "temperature proxies" such as tree rings, ice cores and historical accounts which allow scientists to estimate temperatures prevailing at sites around the world.

According to the researchers, the evidence confirms suspicions that today's "unprecedented" temperatures are simply the result of examining temperature change over too short a period of time.

The findings prove that the world experienced a Medieval Warm Period between the ninth and 14th centuries with global temperatures significantly higher even than today.

Dr Philip Stott, the professor emeritus of bio-geography at the University of London, told The Telegraph: "What has been forgotten in all the discussion about global warming is a proper sense of history."

Maybe its just a spell. We are always going to have years that seem unprecedented and it will revert back to normality until the next severe weather outbreak. Ive heard about heatwaves in the 70's; things fluctuate. Im not going to worry about it, it doesnt mean i wont try my best for the environment as we should always strive to do that as it just makes life better and the world around nicer and healthier.

CLIMATE ALERT!

COLD TEMPERATURES will last through the next several weeks when we expect gradual warming to occur and finally a return to global warming in the summer months, followed again by another period of cooling. This unexpected weather cycle is clearly a result of man-made global warming and according to computer models will continue these fluctuations in 12 month cycles regularly far into our future.

We urge everyone to be vigilant and prepared for both cold and hot periods during these cycles.

Unfortunately until we can tax and control carbon emissions it will only continue and may get worse.

Support energy reform before it is too late.

Originally posted by melatonin
Is this thread serious?

No, not a new ice age. It's an old one we've seen often before. We generally call it winter.

This made me laugh for some reason.
The same argument could be used for warming too. It's called summer, we had them in the past and will have them in the future.